[rkg]

Originally Posted by figo_mba

Are we forgetting the Mahindras here.

With technology from others I meant MJD engine and gearboxes for Vista.

And technical center in UK, is something they got during the JLR deal. Yes they are strong in some technologies. Also they mostly act as outsourcing hub. They are involved in baselining and shelving future technologies. And most of the work is outsourced to competent Indian companies.

Tata electronics is not just low quality parts sometimes complicated design.
Sometimes there are good features that are good to have but it increases in complexity which might be tough to implement and even more tougher to maintain let alone service it.

So maruti's DDIS is its own?

hyundai crdi is its own?

No automobile company in world produces all the parts required. all the crdi cars now have either bosch/delphi pumps not made by themselves

[mohandas]

Originally Posted by rkg

hyundai crdi is its own?

YES. Very much their own. It's U -series I4 diesel engines that comes from Hyundai Kia Auto Group. This U-series has 3-pot 1L engine and 4-pot 1.4, 1.5 an d 1.6 engines.

Originally Posted by rkg

No automobile company in world produces all the parts required. all the crdi cars now have either bosch/delphi pumps not made by themselves

Can't digest your logic here. May Bosch/Delphi provide the component, but how this nullifies the engine technology.


To all:
Btw, Tata is the only brand, who does not believe on "eat your dogfood" mantra. Neither Ratan (Tata) nor his employees ( check out a TCS office near your house ) feel proud of owning their own brand.
You don't have to believe me on this, just do a google with keywords "Ratan Tata's Garage"

[torquecurve]

@ Figo_mba - When you say complicated electronics, what exactly are you referring to? If you are talking about switches which work after 10 minutes suddenly they probably are switches which have been used abused and need to be replaced.
The electricals are not complicated at all. By the way, does your cars headlamp have additional connectors which will back up the current connectors built in? You can use these connectors to run Aux lamps as well. This is not complicated, but sensible as a person would not need to cut the harness to add new components.

Talking about quality and performance I have not heard of the Vista Tdi failing suddenly when shifting gears or stalling at a certain rpm!

mohandas
To all:
Btw, Tata is the only brand, who does not believe on "eat your dogfood" mantra. Neither Ratan (Tata) nor his employees ( check out a TCS office near your house ) feel proud of owning their own brand.
You don't have to believe me on this, just do a google with keywords "Ratan Tata's Garage"

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/super-...tml#post797606

Please read the post on our very own Tbhp. Moreover as a CEO what do you expect Mr Ratan Tata to drive? Also before making such sweeping statements I would suggest you to please do some reading. The respect that Tata employees, including TCS have for the brand Tata is very high. Even in todays age, this is one of the most employee centric organisations there is.

[rajess_in]

First of all let me clarify my views which are purely based on working in TML as well as other Indian & Japanese OEMs.

1. TATAs' forte is the spaciousness, the affordability and the VFM offers.

2. Lot has been said and discussed on the A.S.S. of TML, but I do see that most places have become as competent as the others. Though the odd ones do crop, the general perception in fact oputs them in real bad light.

3. The competencies of most Tata Engineers is as good as the others (both India & abroad). Never under estimate the prowess of not just Tata but any Indian R & D company. Do remember that Tata has a world class R & D facility, including the best crash test facility in india, emphasizing their capabilities in this field. Nano is an brilliant example of their engineering capabilities.

4. Tatas have identified and introduced new product segments in both passenger as well as commercial vehicles. Indica Diesel success is the reason that brought the Swift diesel. A Sumo pulled out an Innova, Xylo, etc. The examples are many. So no doubt on their overall marketing strategy and portfolio.

5. And also remember guys, the Indica made it to the UK as CITY ROVER (http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/intern...se-indica.html). So that proves that they are good to take on any other OEM.


Now coming to the topic of lean sales in passenger cars. By volume they are the number 3, but sadly their sales force is not doing their bit to pitch more during spikes season (festival seasons, year ends, etc.).

Their recent launches have fared poorly compared to others. But one interesting thing to note is, apart from Figo, i10, i20, etc. most top sellers (Maruti, hyundai, tata & others) are models launched more than a decade back. This shows that the indian market endorses tried and tested models rather than the hot new vehicles mostly (looking at mass market segment vehicles).

I own a Figo, and I am sure lot of people had radiator fan issues, rear suspension noise, uneven gaps in steering wheel nacelles, poorly finished door pulls, etc. Now saying these never means that the car is not good. But how good have we gauged this to the Tatas'. A niggle in one brand is a bog sin, but in another goes as just a little thingwe can adjust. Now thats a prejudiced statement from most.

This brings to one conclusion: The perception towards the TATA brand is what that is causing the rout in sales numbers and has nothing to do with anything else.

[rkg]

Originally Posted by mohandas

Can't digest your logic here. May Bosch/Delphi provide the component, but how this nullifies the engine technology.

CRDI: Common rail diesel injection

Here pump is the most important thing. that is why almost all the manufatcurers in the world source it either form Bosch/Delphi with the exception of VW (correct me if iam wrong) who has pump duse tech.

Here is link how Hyundai developed CRDI
Hyundai Teams Up With Detroit Diesel - NYTimes.com

Who Makes Hyundai/kia Diesel Engines? - Kia Forum

[julupani]

OT:
Actually most diesel injection pumps and the high pressure injectors are proprietary technologies and are provided by a handful of companies. Delphi and Bosch provide these to almost all major manufacturers.

As for the Hyundai U-engines, they are in house engines. Initially Hyundai had common rail engines from Detroit Diesel, but not any more.

[kaks15]

Originally Posted by mohandas

Btw, Tata is the only brand, who does not believe on "eat your dogfood" mantra. Neither Ratan (Tata) nor his employees ( check out a TCS office near your house ) feel proud of owning their own brand.
You don't have to believe me on this, just do a google with keywords "Ratan Tata's Garage"

Basic Definition - A conglomerate is a combination of two or more corporations engaged in different businesses (often multi-industry), usually involving a parent company and several (or many) subsidiaries, that fall under one corporate structure.

Why used this definition - To highlight the 3 points that are used as a business excellence by all the long term survivors and multinational conglomerates:
1) The subsidiaries though under the same umbrella are kept competitive by allowing them to work in a free market implying if a subsidiary finds the rates/services of any other market firm is better than subsidiary of same company it is free to prefer the former over latter. Eg. If GE Healthcare division observes that crompton and greaves is providing them motors suited better for their purposes rather than GE Motors it can purchase from CG rather than going to GE Motors.
Any Tata group company can not impose upon TCS to buy anything, they can only sell as they are selling to other companies

2) A company should never force its employees to buy their own product, they can provide better offers but not impose upon them. an employee of a company has the right to spend whatever he/she earns as the remuneration without any constraints from the organisation

3) As many members of my family at some point have worked with Tata group a beautiful and sensible approach followed by the top big guns in the organisation is "use the product only if you are not their in that segment"

[b]Bottomline Mr Tata drives an Indigo and his garage also has other products like mercs etc as Telco was not in those segments at the time of his purchase[\B]

OT- Mr. Ratan Tata is leading a conglomerate whose 2/3rd profits roll back to Indian society.

[anmol2k4]

Originally Posted by mohandas

Btw, Tata is the only brand, who does not believe on "eat your dogfood" mantra. Neither Ratan (Tata) nor his employees ( check out a TCS office near your house ) feel proud of owning their own brand.
You don't have to believe me on this, just do a google with keywords "Ratan Tata's Garage"

So, Nano, Indica and Marina (Owned by Ratan Tata) are not "Tata Brand" cars ?

[julupani]

OT:
As far as I know, Ratan Tata used an exqusitely maintained (as all his cars are) Tata Indigo, with some special accessories for a really long time. It's aa first gen Indigo, one the first few off the line. He uses a company Tata Safari/Indigo XL most of the time he's not in Mumbai. Now, Tata Motors has company Arias for all its top executives, and even for Mr. Tata. But Tata Motirs does not force Tata cars on its employees. But even Tata Motors VPs have personal Safaris only, though the newer gen Tata executives would shift to Arias.

There is a small snippet about him and his Indigo. At one time, he asked why he didnt see any good expensive cars in a company car park. A top executive replied, that they always saw him in his trusted Indigo, so why should they. He replied that, the Indigo is the car his company made and he should be driving in it. But if his top executives are not in Mercs, others will think that he doesnt pay them enough.

But in his personal collection, as a connoisseur of cars, he has a small collection of really exotic cars, like Ferraris and Maseratis. But he is never seen in them when he is official business. You will almost always see Mr. Tata rolling up in a non-descript Tata car, without so much as a an assistant with him.

[rrsteer]

Originally Posted by figo_mba

Are we forgetting the Mahindras here.


And technical center in UK, is something they got during the JLR deal. Yes they are strong in some technologies. Also they mostly act as outsourcing hub. They are involved in baselining and shelving future technologies. And most of the work is outsourced to competent Indian companies.

Please just don't type for the sake of typing. At least when writing on objective, verifiable things don't let you assumptions take over you. The Tata Motors UK technical center dates much before they bought JLR.
Also please read relevant literature before describing the work they do.

[mohandas]

Originally Posted by torquecurve

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/super-...tml#post797606
Please read the post on our very own Tbhp.

I read that thread number of times but looks like you haven't. It clearly says that Mr Tata has a Indigo Marina to carry his DOG.

Originally Posted by julupani

OT:
There is a small snippet about him and his Indigo. At one time, he asked why he didnt see any good expensive cars in a company car park. A top executive replied, that they always saw him in his trusted Indigo, so why should they. He replied that, the Indigo is the car his company made and he should be driving in it. But if his top executives are not in Mercs, others will think that he doesnt pay them enough.

But in his personal collection, as a connoisseur of cars, he has a small collection of really exotic cars, like Ferraris and Maseratis. But he is never seen in them when he is official business. You will almost always see Mr. Tata rolling up in a non-descript Tata car, without so much as a an assistant with him.

Unfortunately this is untrue but it can be a bollywood Karan johar's soap masala. I have following points against your argument:
1. Please see my above point and the link. The indigo is modd-ed to carry his dog. He definitely takes his indigo out when he takes his dog to beach or to visit vet -doctors. Now, I am sure these can be called as his official business trips or not. However, when I saw him last year at Hyderabad in a official meeting with the CM, he was in a black Marc.

2. Few months ago there was a pic in TOI online website. It was showing some disgruntled TML workers destroying some Maruti swift cars owned by TML middle/senior managers. The pic explained me all. [I am trying to find the pic and I will update this post once I find it out]

Originally Posted by anmol2k4

So, Nano, Indica and Marina (Owned by Ratan Tata) are not "Tata Brand" cars ?

Where did you get this info - that Ratan owns Nano, the FIRE CHARIOT ?

[kaks15]

Originally Posted by mohandas

I read that thread number of times but looks like you haven't. It clearly says that Mr Tata has a Indigo Marina to carry his DOG.
Unfortunately this is untrue but it can be a bollywood Karan johar's soap masala. I have following points against your argument:
1. Please see my above point and the link. The indigo is modd-ed to carry his dog. He definitely takes his indigo out when he takes his dog to beach or to visit vet -doctors. Now, I am sure these can be called as his official business trips or not. However, when I saw him last year at Hyderabad in a official meeting with the CM, he was in a black Marc.
2. Few months ago there was a pic in TOI online website. It was showing some disgruntled TML workers destroying some Maruti swift cars owned by TML middle/senior managers. The pic explained me all. [I am trying to find the pic and I will update this post once I find it out]
Where did you get this info - that Ratan owns Nano, the FIRE CHARIOT ?

Kindly go through my post above Mr Mohandas. Thanks.

[mohandas]

Originally Posted by kaks15

Kindly go through my post above Mr Mohandas. Thanks.

but before i start argue, you need same basic knowledge on "Transfer Pricing" on GAAP and non-GAAP accounting. Then only you can understand the flaw in your own logic. Get a crash course and then PM me ..we can start all over again
thanks

[silverado]

Nano sales have been like a See-saw, diesel's introduction will surely spruce it up.

There has been no NANO V2, which might help getting more customers.

SUMO was IMO best SUV for almost 8-10 years since it was lauched and SUMO GRANDE failed miserably to replicate that sucess.

SUMO VICTA is only used by call center operators and maybe in rural areas, still the basic design is a flawed one with short wheelbase, huge overhangs.

Indica might not find liking with most private owners due to image beating it has taken ( Call center cab ).

[Zed]

Mahindra too are pretty good, but for the overall volume and variety of design, they are nowhere close to what Tata Motors ERC handles.


In terms of size - sure the M&M engineering organization is a lot smaller. But in terms of capability I would rate them very high. As an automotive org - M&M has been getting its basic right. Staying with their strengths ( Utility vehicles and tractors), connecting well with the needs of their customers etc ..and the R&Ds efforts have been aligning well with these strategic objectives.