[msdivy]

Originally Posted by GTO

The study was done across key metropolitan cities in Delhi, Mumbai, Chennai and Kolkata and included a total of 606 female participants between the ages of 18 and 45.

Thats the weak point of this survey. If 50% men feel unsafe, then this study is meaningless.

[GTO]

Originally Posted by phamilyman

Which is conveniently done by a GPS company - that will somehow quote it as part of their selling strategy?

Whoever the survey is done by, facts are facts. If a car manufacturer highlights the high road fatality rate in India, and uses that for advertising the ABS & Airbag features of its cars, that is still a relevant fact. We can trust TNS' research findings, considering the standing of the organisation. You can be rest assured that all the market faff has been removed from our announcement (as is always the case); Navteq has been mentioned only once, and that's because they have recruited TNS for this survey.

If you PM me your email address, I'd be only too happy to forward the press release to you.

[tsk1979]

Originally Posted by phamilyman

I further disagree. Here its not road rage but women's safety.

And as per my mother whose driven alone on these roads past 13 yrs or my sis who rode her activa all over Delhi for 8 years including a part time degree with her job - this is fear mongering at its best

PS : of course this isn't about late hours (say post 9 or so) where its purely individual perception. And yes mishaps can happen anytime but this advertorial was about general safety.
PPS : if things were really so bad they'd quote data not make up a survey. And we need to see how survey questions were worded as well.

And I disagree with you. There are areas in town where women are bullied or followed or generally troubled(eg bikers flashing their lights repeatedly). May not be happening much where you live.

Originally Posted by msdivy

Thats the weak point of this survey. If 50% men feel unsafe, then this study is meaningless.

I think this survey was from a point of stalking and eve-teasing, rather than road-rage angle. I am sure far less than 50% of men would be worried about these things

[sajo]

Where does Pune figure here? Except for the road rage (which has increased astonishingly in the past 5 or so years here) resulting from no fear of retribution for a certain "class" of people, I dont think it is unsafe.
My mum has been riding her two wheeler here since the late 80s and concurs with me WRT degradation of Pune motorists over the past few years.

[SAS]

Originally Posted by tsk1979

And I disagree with you. There are areas in town where women are bullied or followed or generally troubled(eg bikers flashing their lights repeatedly). May not be happening much where you live.

That's very true. And that happens not just in Mumbai but all over India, just at different levels.

For example, when a woman overtakes a man, I've seen so many male drivers' ego get hurt that they try to overtake back. My wife has experienced this so often even on Mumbai roads.

And in other parts of India, people still stare at women when they drive cars and their male members sit as passengers. That too happens often when me and wifey go out for short weekend breaks over rural Maharashtra. I experienced this too when I was in AP. Not so sure about other states.

[nawalsingal]

Originally Posted by SAS

That's very true. And that happens not just in Mumbai but all over India, just at different levels.

***
***

And in other parts of India, people still stare at women when they drive cars and their male members sit as passengers. That too happens often when me and wifey go out for short weekend breaks over rural Maharashtra. I experienced this too when I was in AP. Not so sure about other states.

This is not as bad in Maharashtra, as in North India. I have experienced both, being a native in Haryana & now in Pune. You may get occasional stares in MH but you'll definitely get "comments" along with persistent stares there. Sorry, can't comment about AP, haven't been there except once for Tirupati, long back.

[shankar.balan]

It is a pitiable state of affairs but there are some examples where the lady may be at fault too. Last night I was heading with my wife to a friend's place. Near Marathahalli bridge I had to turn left from a side road to reach the over-bridge. There were buses all over the place along with assorted people etc all of whom, seemingly were in a tearing hurry! I was flashing my indicator and waiting for the ocean of traffic to let me come in and make my turn and then, after a good 5 minutes, just about managed to negotiate the turn and bang on the right indicator to get to the correct lane. Right then, a rash lady in a light blue santro (very well dressed corporate exec type) barged in and accelerated through the tiny gap which was there between me and the divider. I was unable to move left on account of a bus being there and this foolish person just barged in, taking a huge risk! Idiots of this kind also cause their own troubles, to some extent, along with trouble for others too!
What seems to be lacking here is patience, manners and basic decency! This is regardless of the 'class' that the person may belong to and that is really what gets my goat! Education and success and status are not about 'mere book learning' and perhaps a fancy job. It is about good manners too!

[aditya101]

50% of surveyed women feel unsafe: add to this population their fathers/husbands/brothers - who feel their share of anxiety when their family is out on the road.

It's makes for a large lot of anxious people out there!

[phamilyman]

Originally Posted by GTO

Whoever the survey is done by, facts are facts. If a car manufacturer highlights the high road fatality rate in India, and uses that for advertising the ABS & Airbag features of its cars, that is still a relevant fact. We can trust TNS' research findings, considering the standing of the organisation. You can be rest assured that all the market faff has been removed from our announcement (as is always the case); Navteq has been mentioned only once, and that's because they have recruited TNS for this survey.

If you PM me your email address, I'd be only too happy to forward the press release to you.

GTO,

Again, I would ask you to have a 1 on 1 discussion with friends in such firms as to methodology - how surveys are conducted, how the questions are framed, how the interviewer explains things. Agencies often conduct such surveys for lending their credibility to the "convenient findings" - its business, just like mainstream media reports stories. And you are confusing road fatality data with a "road safety perception survey" - which is what this really is. Perception vs cold statistics. If it was statistics, NAVTEQ wouldn't have hired TNS to say it on their behalf and lend credibility to the message.

Here's the link: Over 50% of Women Feel Unsafe on Indian Roads: NAVTEQ-TNS Survey

Its an out n out advertorial survey from what i read.

Yes, no one's claiming that Delhi streets are as safe as say Ahmedabad (the safest city I have seen by far - as anyone who has been there during navratri will tell you) - but this survey is overblown. Of course its unsurprising that the survey then reveals:
- Overwhelming 97% of (delhi) women feel safer with the use of a navigation device/app
- Only 7% of the women surveyed viewed Mumbai as unsafe and this could be because a large majority of the women in Mumbai already use some form of navigation app

so to my eyes, the advertorial survey needs to be seen in context - and it needs to be in the Shifting Gears, not the Car scene.

Tanveer - those incidents can happen anywhere. let's not generalize. yes, in that sense delhi, and more so, haryana (cant say about noida/gzb) does have issues. Yes, staring is an endemic problem but men following on bikes is NOT a routine occurence. Heck, in our cycling group there are a few women, and the general amount of attention/hassle one gets even on the village roads has reduced (on the whole) - in earlier rides, often some local would try and ride his scooter/auto etc alongside with the occasional comment/catcall. Again, in my regular cycle journeys to mahipalpur I often see women hitching rides from call center cabs etc at early foggy mornings without men trying to harass them. So while yes, its not a good scenario overall, but its not as much as Navteq-TNS would have you believe.

[burnt.]

Originally Posted by phamilyman

Yes, no one's claiming that Delhi streets are as safe as say Ahmedabad (the safest city I have seen by far - as anyone who has been there during navratri will tell you) - but this survey is overblown.

Whatever maybe the purpose behind the survey, that does not make the data captured false. While the surveys findings and questions with respect to navigation might be in the interest of Navteq, we should not ignore the important point with respect to safety that was raised.

Only through discussion can we address the social issues that are prevalent in our country. First acceptance, then discussion - resolution to the problem can only follow these two. In short, I would rate this thread as relevant and of paramount importance.

[akshay380]

Originally Posted by burnt.

Only through discussion can we address the social issues that are prevalent in our country. First acceptance, then discussion - resolution to the problem can only follow these two. In short, I would rate this thread as relevant and of paramount importance.

I wonder how many of these non-decent folks harassing women will read this discussion or go through survey and change themselves.

[burnt.]

Originally Posted by akshay380

I wonder how many of these non-decent folks harassing women will read this discussion or go through survey and change themselves.

You'll be surprised by the number of "decent" folk who have degrading views about women's position in our society. Maybe not to the extend of harassment - which is an extreme case - but definitely to various lesser extends.

It may just prevent someone from passing sarcastic remarks in the likes of "why was she even there at that time", when they hear about a woman being harassed on our roads. Helps in the realization of where the actual problem is, which I believe is the first step to resolving it.

[phamilyman]

Originally Posted by burnt.

Whatever maybe the purpose behind the survey, that does not make the data captured false. While the surveys findings and questions with respect to navigation might be in the interest of Navteq, we should not ignore the important point with respect to safety that was raised.

Only through discussion can we address the social issues that are prevalent in our country. First acceptance, then discussion - resolution to the problem can only follow these two. In short, I would rate this thread as relevant and of paramount importance.

I'm sorry but I'm fairly dense on this - kindly help me (and clearly akshay as well) understand the following:
- What is the new aspect on safety that was raised? Delhi's been unsafe for women for a while now - what's new?
- Its been discussed on TV, on the internet again for a long while.

What's to be discussed now? (even you propose no agenda) How does it solve the problem? (exactly as akshay said).

And to think that THIS thread will suddenly enlighten the said folks (where are they?) - not one guy on this thread has made any statements like "why was she even there at that time". I mean your intentions are noble but I can't see how you'll practically achieve what you say it will.

[burnt.]

Originally Posted by phamilyman

- What is the new aspect on safety that was raised? Delhi's been unsafe for women for a while now - what's new?

What I'm trying to say is - the very statement you make shows acceptance to a fact that should be unacceptable to society. It sort of sounds like the "chalta hai" attitude that seems to have inflicted most aspects of our society. What I am trying to say is that the debate should go on until the problem is resolved or is under control. Society - and that includes everybody thinks such things are unacceptable - should make their stand until everybody is won over. The odd incident can happen as it takes only one crazy man to create a problem, but this cannot be the rule.

And what applies to Delhi applies to the rest of the country as well. Only the magnitude varies.

[phamilyman]

I'm sorry but I disagree again.

The fact is that there are ten things wrong with this country - but I am personally convinced that discussion will not solve them - its action - through education (that the next generation grows up with the right principles) or exemplary fines (a la Singapore).

I just don't agree or see how a debate on a forum like TBHP you can debate your way to solving behavior of 3rd parties on the street.

Debate is anyways our national pastime - like a municipal candidate once said, Indians love drawing room politics, time for us to go out and vote(action).

But - all the more power to you and best of luck in the debate (its all 1sided till now - we all agree such behavior is unacceptable in a civilized society) and let us revisit it in one month to see how much the problem has resolved or is under control.