[torquecurve]

Originally Posted by cruiser@0523

OT: I also own a pulsar which is an excellent bike, has served me for 50,000 kms for 5 years without any issues. And that is the reason it sells so well, hence there must be a reason the swift is a hit.

Yes Suzuki has no brand image as to turn heads, but i was talking in respect to the vista, i would prefer a manza over Dzire yes, but not an Indica over swift, it is great car, for someone who he 40+ has 2 kids and a wife. But thats about it, the desirability factor of the swift is much higher.

Using yourr analogy, you should have bought an FZ16 instead of the Family150 Pulsar .

No offense mate, but again the only minus you also see with the Vista is the Tata 'Image'! And yes, I aint 40, married, kids I dunno, if any of my ex's have them . But yes, for a person looking for a practical 'family' car the Vista ticks the boxes for me, just the way the Pulsar probably ticked the boxes for you.

Originally Posted by avira_tk

The Swift buyer would also get a car that feels a lot more modern than a Vista, again that center console is a put off, the fact is that the Swift is a contemporary and "in" car. A lot of buyers like the fact that its available even in the developed markets in somewhat the same variant that you get here. I still remember checking out the Swift during the launch of the original, it felt light years ahead of other hatches in the market. If the VDi had ABS+rear wash/wipe and defogger I would have gone for it.

HPS is hardly a USP, EPS is acceptable for the average buyer. Weight it not an indication of well built, an 9 year old City with light doors still has its super fine shut lines, Tata is nowhere in that league. Old maruti's hold up fine, light weight doesn't mean bad build.

Check out my Vista. After 2 years of abuse it still does not rattle. I know sift owners who complain about their cars rattling after about 10K kms.
Another point you make, the Top spec Vista does offer you ABS+Airbags+rear wash wipe+ defogger! At 50-60 K less than the Swift.

Originally Posted by needforspeed88

If Swift is the Pulsar then Vista is an Amby. I mean half the common people cannot find the difference between a Indica and the Vista. Vista might be a good product but you simply cannot deny it is perceived to be a taxi by the masses and you cannot run away from that fact. Even the new Swift looks far too similar to the old one but at-least people do not mistake it for a taxi . As i have said car buying is an individual trait but sales figure imply what the masses want and most masses buy with the head than heart especially in this segment. So if you are telling me Indica's taxi image and similarity to old Indica is a non factor then you are lying to yourself. The Indica sales [both old and new one put together] aren't patch on the Swift sales and i am afraid the perceived opinion of the masses is that the Swift is way better overall car then the Vista and that too by a big margin.

Thanks for making the point I was trying to make. It is "perception" that makes the swift sell like it does, even with its obvious flaws. In India, 'image' is more important. I am not running away from the fact that the Indica has a taxi image, rather it makes me proud in a way to know that the reliability of my vehicle is excellent.
Masses typically follow the mob mentality (herd), esp. in India. A classic example is the way people are ready to plonk in 1.2 lakhs more on a diesel though their usage is less than 500 kms a month. Jut because Diesel in cheaper.

Peace guys, I never said the Swift is a bad car, just that the Vista is an under rated car. Much like a Rahul Dravid compared to a Tendulkar.

[swiftnfurious]

Originally Posted by silverado

..from your quote it seems you are assuming it.

Regarding the length of the door, I didn't assume it, but read / saw in some reports. The fact is that from A-pillar onwards, the car is NOT exactly a Swift! There are much more changes.

Originally Posted by extreme_torque

I doubt you will get 5L for it given that its an old model now.

I have seen recently 2008 LDi going for 4.75L. Mine is a VDi ABS and has a fair share of accessories. On top of it, new model is still NOT available in the used car market. So 5L is a clear possibility!

[silverado]

Originally Posted by swiftnfurious

Regarding the length of the door, I didn't assume it, but read / saw in some reports. The fact is that from A-pillar onwards, the car is NOT exactly a Swift! There are much more changes.

!

Whatever the changes are , one thing is 100% sure, both swift and dzire are difficult to get in compared to VISTA.

My friend who is 5.8, said he struggled to get out properly from dzire.
I myself have not tried it, will surely be able to comment on it in better way when i try it, same goes for you sir i beleive.

We can all wait for the yearly report on spares that Autocar carries every year, which will give a good indication of which car is cheaper on spares.

[swiftnfurious]

Originally Posted by silverado

I myself have not tried it, will surely be able to comment on it in better way when i try it, same goes for you sir i beleive.

I never said ingress / egress is "good", rather I said Dzire will be easier than Swift in comparison and that comment was a reply to the highlighted portion below.

And "Respected Sir", If you have NOT tried it yet, on what grounds did you make such a sarcastic [highlighted] comment as below? Shouldn't you have waited till you checked it out?

Originally Posted by silverado

As it is swift is difficult, while Dzire is a joke in this regards. You can skip yoga clases if you buy New Dzire.

Edit:: Adding the ACI review of Swift which also talks about the design changes from Swift. Please check from 2:15 onwards for the door length clarification.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJ9aiuZU0A0

[silverado]

Originally Posted by swiftnfurious

I never said ingress / egress is "good", rather I said Dzire will be easier than Swift in comparison and that comment was a reply to the highlighted portion below.

And "Respected Sir", If you have NOT tried it yet, on what grounds did you make such a sarcastic [highlighted] comment as below? Shouldn't you have waited till you checked it out?

You are right, will surely try it soon, comments were totally based on lengthy discussion with SLICK.

Night shift taking toll on me

[Dushie]

Well i booked a new vista quadrajet porcelain white and i am happy with the call i took. I drove plenty of other cars, but did not get the Vista sedan class experience. Drove Figo too, the engine noise was high, felt like i am driving a truck, in spite of the AC being on, i could hear all the engine sounds on gear changes. Also i found the steering to be a bit hard and overall the car just wasn't meant for me.

I know the debate for swift and Vista would go on. But in the end i feel , you should buy whatever you like to drive and feel comfortable in. As a family man priorities change and vista suits my needs well. As far as the reliability of the car is concerned i feel most of the issues raised would be few bad experiences which people have had with both cars. In terms of reliability i don't think you can go wrong with Tata, as be it Indica or Vista quadrajet.

Both are good cars. my previous Indica DLX 2002 did a great job for last 9 1/2 years and i have no complaints. I sold the car for 1.25 lakhs and there were plenty of buyers in the market. So no worries on resale. If so many people get lined up to buy a 9 year old car. It just shows the demand and reliability of the car. It never broke down or gave me worries of ownership.

Also the swift basic model is overly priced for me when i can get the similar performance with more space and better comfort for 60 k less in Vista, why would i go for a Swift diesel.

As of now i am waiting for my Vista Sedan Class experience to come home.

[wilful]

This thread got my normally lethargic brain to crank up and think. I am attempting to introspect and analyse very frankly why or why not (broadly) a Tata vehicle – and specifically the Indica Vista. I may digress a bit while doing so and I hope this would be forgiven.
Years ago – 1997 I think – the company I worked for got me a Tata Sumo. I was using a Maruthi Omni at the time. I used the Sumo for close to 3 years – clocking over 70000 kms, travelling the length and breadth of Kerala with nary a spot of trouble. The only time I was stuck on the highway was when I had a puncture. The vehicle originally did not have power steering and therefore a few months down the line I got it fitted with one. Apart from the highway and towns, it did quite a bit of ghat/hill work as I took it frequently to the estates. There again it handled the (non-existent) roads with aplomb, getting stuck only once in the slush doing a monsoon.
Came 2000 and I turned consultant and therefore it was bye bye to company cars. From a Santro to a Corsa and through two Honda Citys (the current one a CVT) – I went through 4 new cars in 12 years. Yet not once did my thoughts turn to a Tata vehicle in spite of my happy experience with the Sumo. I repeat myself - this thread made me do a bit of introspection and bring out my thoughts in an unvarnished manner.
I have driven both the Swift and the Indica Vista though not extensively. A colleague has a Swift Diesel and a relative has the Indica Vista. As the years have advanced, so have my priorities – I now look for comfort, safety and reliability. Not for me outright performance and stuff anymore.
I find the Swift cramped and not a patch on the Vista in terms of space and comfort. Yet if I were asked to put my hard earned money - between the two, I would hesitate to pick the Vista. Why? Two major reasons perhaps.
I think, deep down in me much as I am loathe to admit, there is a perception of inferior quality (in general terms) about all things made in India, translating into less reliability.
Irrational isn’t it? Considering my happy experience with a Tata vehicle – and the fact that the company I currently advice, had a Sierra and a Sumo both of which did well over 2 lakh kms with minimum fuss (and were then put to pasture), apart from a few Indicas (of 2005 vintage) which are going strong with just the usual niggles.
The next thing that makes me hesitate is simply the ‘brand’. Somehow my brain perceives a Tata (vehicle) to be a lesser brand than a Maruthi Suzuki (or the other Jap/Korean brands). I also think there is that negative perception of ‘taxi’ entering into the equation at the fringes of my brain.
I wonder though what might have been if the same vehicle had been sold by a Jap/Korean badge...
I just might have viewed it through a different prism.

[Turbokick]

For the ingress/outgress in a dzire, I must admit that it is still bit difficult to get in and out inspite of the larger rear door compared to swift.

Vista on the other hand is breeze. Doors are wide opening and the passage is very ergonomic.

[DieselAddikt]

I have done very close to 60K kms in less than 30 months in my Vista. I have enjoyed all my highway drives. It is very comfortable and a great highway car with loads of space for the occupants. I am talking of speeds below 120kmph. It can cruise at that speed all day long without making you nervous. There are absolutely no rattles. And it is easy on my pocket as well. It takes only as much as it took to maintain my M800 @60K kms on the odo.

Major problems:

1. Your car will mostly be mistaken for a taxi. But I never expect people to say that "I have arrived". For that you need a Merc or the likes. Talking about brand value at a price point of 6 Lakhs is nonsense IMO. Strictly my opinion.

2. The car does not handle well during cornering. In fact, high speed cornering does not inspire any confidence. It does not hold a candle to the Swift in this department. A big negative. But then, the target customer for the car is different.

3. There have been a few niggles when the car was new. Replaced headlamp and fog lamp bulbs twice. Had to get the front brake disc replaced under warranty because of wobbling when breaking from speeds above 110kmph.

Swift is a great car. No doubt. It is very sporty and fuel efficient. But Vista is highly under rated. The practicality that this car offers is something worth mentioning.

[livyodream]

Originally Posted by extreme_torque

I would really like to know how easy it is, to sell a 3 years used diesel hatchback for 6L+?

I don't think you got my point. I said 3 yrs from now. New swift has appreciated from 5.2L to 7L in 2.5 years (yes i know its the new gen swift which is selling now). Current price for mid version - 7.2L (I bought for 6.9L). Guess what would the price be in 2015? Now tell me what would be the price of 3 year old swift then. Simple rough calculation though.

Just to let you know, no swift (diesel) owner would have sold his 2-3-4 year old swift for more than 50-75K loss (I mean if he knows how to sell a car) . Give me any car which can give you that returns other than gypsy or classics etc. And Please do not include stanley seats or the touch screen installed in the car. I am talking about the car.

Check out used car market for more details on it . Swift diesels are sold as hot cakes doesn't matter what the condition is.

[RadiantKarma]

6 pages to discuss what's obvious IMO - Vista is a grossly under-rated car, if one discounts - mainly - the perception of peace of mind associated with a Maruti. Hence, the real question is whether the perception of reliability of Maruti vs. Tata is actually blown over the top. The jury is still out on this - and will remain so for a considerable period.

Early on in USA, when the cheaper Japanese cars started making inroads, they were considered having poor quality and reliability - till they adopted now famed quality practices and the image gradually changed. Hyundai, till very recently, has had a pretty poor image in the US on this front. In our country, there is also that tricky issue of traditionally negative quality association with everything Indian. Maybe it's only the image issue that afflicts the Tata brand at present and there is no longer a real issue with quality niggles / reliability / A.S.S. If so, Tata will be a brand to reckon with in a few years. And, in that case, congratulations to all those discerning present buyers of Tata vehicles, which are truly VFM otherwise.

In the meantime though, someone like me, who prefers to play safe on reliability assurance front, would rather plonk his money on a Swift, or Liva, or Jazz...

[raj_5004]

Cmon, what's this underrated business?

Indica Vista is a nice car, though nothing extra ordinary. The only thing great about the car is the space it offers, when compared to other hatchbacks. Yes, for that price, it is value for money.

At the same time, we have to accept the fact that -

* It is not one of the best lookers in that segment.
* It looks too similar to the Indica, which is a taxi, which many of private buyers wont like to drive.
* It has got the Indica name attached to it, which itself is a deterrent for many.
* Its a TATA which means after sales experience would be questionable, some would get great service whereas others would be tortured.
* When compared to a swift, it feels less premium.

Its not that the Vista is a bad car, not at all. But when we are comparing it with a Swift, there are many things which goes in the latter's favour. Cmon, buying a car is not just about finding out which car is more spacious or which car has more features. There is much more to it than that. When I was on the lookout for a diesel hatch, I dint even give a glance to the Vista, even though I was in a TATA showroom to see the Punto. Reasons are many. But again, that does not mean, in any way, that the Vista is not a capable car. Its just that... it does not feel "special" enough.

[Dushie]

Well probably would like to add one thing which i feel everyone is missing out on. Say you want to buy a car next week. Can you buy a Swift ? No. Will you wait 3 - 5 months after booking a Swift ?

Compared to this Vista is available within a week to 10 days of time period. No hassles, with discount and freebies.
So when i went looking for a new car, i did not even test drive the Swift diesel as i want a car now not in July or August. Only Vista & Figo were the two diesel cars in my budget for which the delivery time was less than 10 days.

If you really are passionate about Swift, go ahead and wait and also pay a premium as they have been passing all the hikes to customers who have booked the car and also not even a 1 rupee discount.

If you want a family car, that doesn't pinch your pocket, cheaper than Swift, easily available with hardly any waiting period, sedan space and comfort go for Vista.

This makes your life and decision simple ...

[architect]

Originally Posted by swiftnfurious

I bought my car in 2008 Oct for 5.8L OTR, I can easily command a 5L price tag today after clocking 65,000 kms because the same variant, brand new model sells for 6.3L OTR today.

I am sure you might have valid reasons / data to back up this claim, but I do find it difficult to believe you can sell a diesel car for a price higher than its original OTR price after three years of usage.

I understand the South Indian used car market is highly seller-friendly and people may be just dying to buy diesel cars but I think this is taking it too far. Whatever be the market dynamics, being a diesel also means very good chances of a three-year-old car having at least 60,000 km under its wheels and possible abuse as well.

Would I, as an astute buyer, risk that for a mere saving of Rs 1.3 lakhs (5 lakhs for used vs 6.3 lakh for new)?

[swiftnfurious]

Originally Posted by architect

..but I do find it difficult to believe you can sell a diesel car for a price higher than its original OTR price after three years of usage.

In my case, original OTR was 5.8L & I quoted a resale price of 5L & in the other post, the buyer bought the car for 6.9L OTR & quoted resale price of 6L! Did I miss a post which quoted a price higher than original OTR price?

Slightly OT:

Originally Posted by architect

Would I, as an astute buyer, risk that for a mere saving of Rs 1.3 lakhs (5 lakhs for used vs 6.3 lakh for new)?

The question is how many average buyers are astute enough! To me the thumb rule is "Never buy a used car if the re-sale value is terrific & buy a used car if it doesn't hold much re-sale value". So cars like Innova & Swift, I will always buy a new one whatever the price is, coz I can manage to sell it for a good price after 5 years. At the same time, cars like Linea T-Jet, Cedia etc, I will NEVER buy a new one as I will always lose a lot of money on the re-sale. But then that's me!