[directinjection]

Originally Posted by JayPrashanth

But weren't the spyshots referring to the 1.3 Liter VGT equipped Multijet motor?

No!

Take a look at this:

http://www.indiancarsbikes.in/cars/t...badging-58329/

and this:

http://motorbash.com/interesting-spo...ow-whats-that/

[rkg]

Originally Posted by directinjection

But a 90 HP version of the CR4 does exist. It has been used both in eV2 and the Vista. Search the net for sightings! It is said that the current gearbox used in eV2 prevents usage of higher HP version; nothing wrong with the engine per se.

CR4 is nothing but old 1.4l IDI engine with common rail fuel pump(delphi). it was never in 90 HP avatar. it is always around 70 or 71 Hp only. earlier it was called Dicor. It is rumored to be capable of 100 HP but it was never released in that version

Vista D90 is Fiat 1.2 l with VGT ( Bosch fuel pump)

Vista is fiat 1.2 l with FGT.

[JayPrashanth]

Originally Posted by directinjection

No!

Take a look at this:

http://www.indiancarsbikes.in/cars/t...badging-58329/

and this:

http://motorbash.com/interesting-spo...ow-whats-that/

Ah, the world's a small place, more so the interweb.

In fact, I broke the story about the Indica with the mysterious 90 badging for ICB a long time ago. :-)

But it doesn't mention CR4 anywhere, does it?

And back then we (the spy photographer and me) debated about the Indica CR4 with a 90 HP engine for hours together, and reached no conclusion.

However, it seems like a diesel from the exhaust tip. Notice the soot. But which diesel engine is the question.

The same scene was repeated with the Indica Victa 90 as well, which eventually turned out to be the D90.

In view of this facts, I'm still unsure about Tata Motors having a 90 PS 1.4 CR4 engine in the arsenal.

Cheers,

Jay

[aravind.anand]

Originally Posted by rkg

CR4 is nothing but old 1.4l IDI engine with common rail fuel pump(delphi). it was never in 90 HP avatar. it is always around 70 or 71 Hp only. earlier it was called Dicor. It is rumored to be capable of 100 HP but it was never released in that version

Vista D90 is Fiat 1.2 l with VGT ( Bosch fuel pump)

Vista is fiat 1.2 l with FGT.

Correction, both the Fiat engines are 1.3L, I am sure that is a typo

The engines on the current Vista are pretty decent, but the looks were more of a bother for me. And even the rendering on our site with an aggressive face does not impress me, as the flat-like-a-slab sides of the Vista and the Manza are too boring. And nothing can be done about it in a facelift, so they need to understand the importance of design and aspirational value in a car, before going to the drawing board for their all new models!

[safari_lover]

Will it come with a better petrol 1.2L engine? The current Vista 1.2L just doesn't have enough power. It should come with something around 80BHP.

Though the 1.4L Petrol was launched, it was just too costly for a petrol hatch.

[rkg]

Originally Posted by aravind.anand

Correction, both the Fiat engines are 1.3L, I am sure that is a typo

It is actually 1248 CC engine not 1.3 L, event though it is named as 1.3

[aravind.anand]

Originally Posted by safari_lover

Will it come with a better petrol 1.2L engine? The current Vista 1.2L just doesn't have enough power. It should come with something around 80BHP.

Though the 1.4L Petrol was launched, it was just too costly for a petrol hatch.

Even with a 1.2L car developing 80 Bhp, the Vista wont be of much fun, because the car is heavy! For a petrol hatch to be fun and VFM, it has to be like the Brio / Swift. A nice power to weight ratio would be missing with the Vista.

@ RKG, But isn't it always reffered to as the 1.3L engine, as it is above 1200 cc?

[i74js]

Originally Posted by directinjection

But a 90 HP version of the CR4 does exist. It has been used both in eV2 and the Vista. Search the net for sightings! It is said that the current gearbox used in eV2 prevents usage of higher HP version; nothing wrong with the engine per se.

Can you please share the link for 90 HP CR4 engine. I did tried out on google and also checked with one of my freinds at concorde motors.

I am given to understand that it does not exist. Sumo has one but it also not 90 HP.

[DicKy]

Since it's a test car can't really comment on it.
The dashboard will definitely be changed for the Manza and by the redesigned rear lights they maybe finally changing the x'mas light taillamps.
The Vista is already 70% there. It just needs a bit of desirability injected in and some rough corners smoothened out.

[greenhorn]

I wouldnt get carried away with the 'flared' head lights phrase. It's probably just marketing spin on a new assembly. from what I see in the spy shots, they seem a step backwards ( a la the figo headlight redesign). I seriously doubt tata would change the shape of the headlight assembly - too much trouble.

The question of a 90bhp dicor/cr4 motor has popped up before
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...ml#post1582042
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...-90-badge.html
I wonder if the rumours will turn out to be true finally?

[i74js]

Run Tata Run.....

Nothing can save but a number of changes:

- Reliability - Improve (I suggest make it boring !) - you have benchmark to look at INNOVA
- Design - Change
- The word Indica - Drop
- The steel quality - Improve (make it galvanized, if not already, if yes, it is still bad as compared to other players)
- After Sales Servive - Well you know it Karl / TML, enough has been said

[ahmad.007]

Originally Posted by i74js

Run Tata Run.....

Nothing can save but a number of changes:

- Reliability - Improve (I suggest make it boring !) - you have benchmark to look at INNOVA
- Design - Change
- The word Indica - Drop
- The steel quality - Improve (make it galvanized, if not already, if yes, it is still bad as compared to other players)
- After Sales Servive - Well you know it Karl / TML, enough has been said

+1
Especially the names "Indica/Indigo". I literally hate these names now. If Tata brings in an all new car with a different shape, plarform, etc but badge it Indica, then sorry, most people would simply stay away.
Vista is a good car, poor thing they could not style it differently than the Indica.
Aria may not be a hit, but I am a fan of its styling.
And ofcourse TATA needs to come up with better quality interiors and better fit and finish.

[Oranger]

Originally Posted by kinetic

The basic shape of the Indica has been around for too long now. I am sure there's a numbers game behind why they keehp doing facelifts, but what this Tata range needs right now is a fresh design, and not just repeated plastic surgery jobs. I find it very surprising that Tata hasn't been able to convincingly crack the non-Taxi/commercial market code with its Indica iterations.

Exactly! See what hyundai has done to its stable, a complete makeover. The fluidic design theme has brought a lot of accolades home. For instance, the previous generation Verna & the fluidic Verna have got nothing in common other than its name.

High time for tata to realise & practice these strategies of continuous development rather than just changing or exchanging headlamps and bumpers, calling it a facelift.

Another point where tatas have gone horribly wrong is the product branding. When u build a completely new car, why share its name with the predecessor models, why INDICA vista? Why SUMO grande? INDIGO manza?

Hope someone takes a note of these issues!

[MHG]

Originally Posted by Oranger

Another point where tatas have gone horribly wrong is the product branding. When u build a completely new car, why share its name with the predecessor models, why INDICA vista? Why SUMO grande? INDIGO manza?

I'd like to comment about the bit in bold here: Tata missed a big opportunity with the fact that the Sumo Grande shares looks with the Xenon pickup. Tata could've used the halo of the Xenon's butch looks and have branded this after the Xenon (like the Xenon Grande perhaps). Even now, a few cosmetic lifts to the Grande (especially darker shades) with the Xenon nameplate can make it sell better.

[indivic]

IAB have reported new pictures of the side profile

http://indianautosblog.com/2013/07/2...ta-spied-86492

Hope we get atleast 300l of boot space and a new petrol engine making atleast 80 horses.

If TML can make the facelift look like below even better

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:2n...%C3%ABn_C3.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ci..._Wuppertal.jpg

Source: Wikipedia