[motomaverick]

A very positive news for someone who roots for Tata. Dropping the old names and designing new bodies along with engines is certainly a step in the right direction. Someone pointed out about their service quality well I can say that they are definitely better than most of the manufacturers out there and have improved in the last couple of years. Another wishful thought will be to put a auto gear box with the Falcons.

It is quite interesting that Tata choose a name Falcon considering they have a Jaguar in their stable as well.

[vivekgk]

Originally Posted by RSR

The surprising thing is the mention of the 1.2 turbo petrol being based on the Xeta 1.2 engine. The Xeta 1.2's 475 SI is an ordinary engine to begin with. It's basically derived from their 1.4 NA diesel and has its limitations. It's an old school 8-valve SOHC design, unnecessarily heavy, very noisy at higher rpms, doesn't rev freely and is not fuel efficient either.

Unless they drastically change the nature of the engine, it isn't going to endear itself to petrol car buyers. A turbo would surely boost power and torque numbers, but the drawbacks of the engine will still be there.

The 101 PS 16-valve DOHC 1.4 petrol in the Indigo XL would have been a better choice to convert into a 1.2 turbo petrol. I don't understand why the Xeta's 1.2 was chosen over this more promising donor engine for the project.

The 1.2L Xeta engine and the DOHC 1.4 are based on the same 475 block, only with different bore/stroke and cyl head. The 1.4L petrol engine was earlier available on the Indica and Indigo petrol models, producing around 85 PS. The Indigo XL was the only car to get this engine in 100bhp tune. I think the issue then was with making a transaxle that could handle 100 bhp. Tata didn't have access to Fiat's parts bin then.

Converting an engine from SOHC 2v/cyl to DOHC 4v/cyl setup requires only the re-engineering of the head assembly, and has been done in several cars, including the venerable M800, Esteem etc. Since Tata has already done it once on the Indigo XL, the tech's already there.

In fact, heavier engines are better for turbo charging, because of the additional stress that the turbo boost puts on the block. Thus I believe the old 1.2 is a great candidate. Maybe the more experienced folks on the forum could share their wisdom on this.

Originally Posted by wilful

I think dropping the Vista & Manza names may be the right way to go. They have had a long innings and new names would mean a fresh start without the baggage of the negative perceptions.
The thing that surprises me is the sub 4 meter replacement for Manza. Does that mean they are only going to have a compact sedan?

I completely agree. Tata should drop the existing names. I am surprised that the sub 4m sedan is replacing the Manza, as I thought they would coexist. A big sedan with a boot makes a lot of sense for a lot of people.

Originally Posted by motomaverick

A very positive news for someone who roots for Tata. Dropping the old names and designing new bodies along with engines is certainly a step in the right direction. Someone pointed out about their service quality well I can say that they are definitely better than most of the manufacturers out there and have improved in the last couple of years. Another wishful thought will be to put a auto gear box with the Falcons.

It is quite interesting that Tata choose a name Falcon considering they have a Jaguar in their stable as well.

Have to agree about the service levels improving. I tested out the improved Indigo eCS recently and it is miles ahead in every way compared to my Indigo TDi, although may be not as heavily built.

Like several others here, I think that Falcon is just a code name. Most manufacturers like to use ambitious and cool-sounding code names when referring to WIP projects .

[safari_lover]

Today's ET & Mint confirm the Falcon project quoting a Ranjit Yadav of Tata Motors. Both these products will be rolled out by mid 2014 according to them.

ET also lets out the project name for their another set of new cars.

After the Falcons, ET learns the 'X0' platform hatchback and compact sedan codenamed 'Kite' will hit the market in 2015.

source - http://www.livemint.com/Industry/TCb...ew-models.html
and http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/...w/26059049.cms

[IndiFuture]

Originally Posted by safari_lover

Today's ET & Mint confirm the Falcon project quoting a Ranjit Yadav of Tata Motors. Both these products will be rolled out by mid 2014 according to them.

Yes, read it.
They are also going to retain the existing Manza and Vista...
I dont mind them trashing the existing Indica and Indigo and replacing them with the Vista and Manza. But pretty sure they wont do that!!

[julupani]

Originally Posted by safari_lover

Today's ET & Mint confirm the Falcon project quoting a Ranjit Yadav of Tata Motors. Both these products will be rolled out by mid 2014 according to them.

ET also lets out the project name for their another set of new cars.

Business Standard article also has some details.

Mr. Yadav suggest the Falcons will be quite different from the existing cars, and they will sit alongside the Vista/Manza etc. and not be replacements. He also says that these cars will have a new powertrain.

I hope this means that Tata will differentiate between products more targeted towards cab operators, and towards private buyers.

http://www.business-standard.com/art...1900981_1.html

[Vishal.R]

None of the test mules currently being spotted suggest a completely different car.
Few days back I also saw one mule very closely on an internal Pune city road (Dagdusheth Ganpati Temple to Swargate). The car was Vista with (i) Manza/D90 like console (ii) some work in progress rear lights, I could not notice much change in rear body panels. (Was just behind the car on two wheeler at a traffic signal)
Although It was a bit busy road, The car seems to be very silent, unlike any diesel or TATA’s home grown petrol engine.

If they are really working on a significantly different platform, either they are yet to start on road testing, or testing is going on at some secrete place.

[simplyself]

Indica, Vista and Manza should co-exist along with the to-be introduced 'Falcon' range.

Is there any chance the 1.0 litre DICOR engine Tata displayed in Auto Expo 2012 will be used in any of the models?

[Steeroid]

Originally Posted by simplyself

Is there any chance the 1.0 litre DICOR engine Tata displayed in Auto Expo 2012 will be used in any of the models?

Displayed in 2012 = in production by 2017, going by TML's past record.

[veyron_head]

A step in the right direction, I would say. I had said this in one of the other threads too, that Tata needs new products that dont look anything like their current products. A completely new design (if not what is under the hood) is what they need to reposition themselves in the market.

Be it the indica, vista or the Manza they all look unnecessarily bulky, rather obese! While it doesn't look odd on a safari or a Aria, the vista and Manza sure look like age old designs.

But going by the spyshots on carwale, I am really worried if its just the vista and manza. the head lights in one of the pictures clearly resembles the Vista.

If the project falcon is all about fresh designs and new projects, I am really happy for them. Its also time they did a rebranding exercise, just to change the old perception and give a fresh outlook.

[simplyself]

Originally Posted by julupani

I hope this means that Tata will differentiate between products more targeted towards cab operators, and towards private buyers.

I have seen a banner in Concorde, Hyderabad which says November and December months are Taxi Cab and Fleet Owners target months. This could be a prelude or the first act to the differentiation that you have mentioned.

[IndiFuture]

The new car doesn't look much different from the existing car, considering the spyshots doing the rounds. Tata has a habit of retaining the existing cars along with new cars (like they did when they kept both Indica/Vista and Indigo/Manza. So its not surprising.
I personally would've loved a more straight-line car, like the Polo/Vento type, or the Jazz/City type. But as companies like Honda surprise us with their futuristic design, a company like Tata, which used to be a pioneer in car design in India keeps disappointing.

[swiftnfurious]

Originally Posted by julupani

...I hope this means that Tata will differentiate between products more targeted towards cab operators, and towards private buyers...

That's a very good move I say. Indica / Indigo / Manza has already been known for Taxis. If TATA discontinues this, then the taxi market will go after the new models and screw those brands as well.

Instead now TATA can better price Vista & Manza, launch stripped down variants and price the NEW ones at a better budget (still offering good VFM) so that operators think twice to touch these models over Vista / Manza.

And longer manufacturing of those models should ensure the ROI too.

[veyron_head]

Originally Posted by swiftnfurious

Instead now TATA can better price Vista & Manza, launch stripped down variants and price the NEW ones at a better budget (still offering good VFM) so that operators think twice to touch these models over Vista / Manza.

And longer manufacturing of those models should ensure the ROI too.

Good thought. They should also consider selling the yellow board versions of Vista and Manza through their commercial vehicle division and leave the passenger car division exclusively for white board owners.

[GrammarNazi]

Definitely a step in the right direction. Glad they're drifting away from the 'Indi-' tags in naming the new offerings.

Petrol : Although the price difference between petrol & diesel is maximum in recent history right now, people have realised that Petrol is cheaper in the long run and can be economically converted to CNG, hence the surge in demand for petrol cars. This obvious reality is what they've focused on.

Their 1st offering after the Horizonext tweaked facelift for 8 cars. Hope the quality issues have been given first hand attention and they've gained better control over service centers.

'Falcon', hmm... kindof like it, but will the new design philosophy speak in favour of the name?

[PAVAN KADAM]

courtesy cartoq
http://www.cartoq.com/cartoq-scoop-e...lcon4-project/