[simplyself]

Originally Posted by Car Architect

Sir, I have driven all the cars in the segment and the Zest's ride quality is definitely much better than the Dzire at any given speed and surface. Agreed, Dzire handles better but the Zest is very competent in this area.

In the real world, zest's MJD tuning offers better tractability than the Dzire's unit and is also very efficient and Punchy.

I second that. I regularly drive Dzire and when I shopped
for car I preferred Zest. The car is spacious, good looking .Riding is better than that of Dzire and handling is at par if not better.

Engine has lesser turbo lag. NVH levels are better. I dont see why it is not considered complete package .

[Car Architect]

Originally Posted by SchumiFan

Lack of space, inferior quality, equipment list in Dzire? Compared against what? The Dzire carries most of the equipments offered by other manufacturers in this segment and offers better engines delivering higher mileage as well. If anything it is the Amaze that loses out mostly when compared against the other cars in the segment.

The space in the cars in the segment are more or less the same as well. None would offer exemplary space as they are restricted by the 4M length restrictions.

Compared to the other cars in the very segment!! Zest, Amaze and Xcent offer more space. Period. Be it legroom, shoulder room or headroom, even the seat backrest angle and under thigh support (Xcent and Zest are better than Amaze in this criteria) is better than the Dzire. And coming to the boot space it's the dzire which has least of it

Xcent - 407
Amaze-400
Zest-360-390
Dzire-316

These are all irrefutable facts that most of the car analysts conclude and there is no denying it.

Yes, dzire is very fuel efficient and so are the other cars in the segment with dzire holding a slight advantage. Please don't over do the mileage factor of Dzire.

Now coming to the perceived quality, Xcent and the Zest have much better quality than Dzire and even the amaze is up to the level of dzire. Zest and even the Xcent will leave the Dzire dead when it comes to equipment levels.

I will explain it in detail but this is not the right thread to discuss it and if you want to continue the debate lets continue in their respective thread.

Originally Posted by SchumiFan

Maruti After sales service is a major trump card for them and one which is rightly earned.

Exactly my point in the previous comment mentioning "being Maruti".

[Sunsh!nes]

Originally Posted by shobhitk

Ritz is a solid car. I bought Ritz ZDi exactly an year back and i can vouch for the fact that it is a very good car. As far as its much criticised 'boomerang' tail lights are concerned, it is a matter of personal like/dislike. It appears that just to ensure that the sale of Swift is not adversely affected, Maruti might not be willing to bring-in a rival to Swift by modifying the existing Ritz car. As Swift and Ritz share the same engine and the same platform they are virtually 2 sides of the same coin. Maruti has deliberately denied Ritz ZDi of climate control and other standard ZDi features which are part of Swift ZDi. Reverse parking sensors and camera, bluetooth connectivity, ORVM indicators/electronically foldable ORVMs and navigational assistance etc. are some of the features which should be added to Ritz ZDi. I agree with the suggestion that Maruti should give a face-lift to Ritz, the way many facelifts were given to Wagonr and Dzire.

, Ritz is definitely a much better car than swift when it comes to comfort and ergonomics. Though a Tall boy design, its in no way inferior to Swift excepting for some premium treatment given to Swift knowing that Ritz is equally a good competitor for swift. Infact Swift has become an too common, too many of them on the road, dont understand how people keep buying a car which is cosmetically changing over the years(no offense to anybody's opinion). Swift is a car which is good for young people who dont have old people travelling with them. Ingress and egress is actually a concern being low seated and tall people have a problem sitting in the backseat. I would any day vouch for Ritz over the Swift as there is no backseat comfort in Swift(personal opinion). Its actually much better insulated and more quieter compared to other cars. It isnt as tiring even if you drive the Ritz for hours on stretch specially the dash mounted Gear lever and easy ingress and egress and better visibility of the road. The boomerang tail lamps actually looks good, its different unlike the rest and visibility of those lights in highways or in the night is much higher than other cars simply because of their position.

Ritz shouldnt be discontinued in future. Looking at the figures, I just wish they dont do it. I had owned one and had to sell it for financial reasons. I am planning to buy that car again. Hopefully there is an updated version of Ritz soon. Maruti...You listening.. !!

[Sunsh!nes]

Thank you for the Superb review and detailed status report. This is the first time I actually understood the actual car sales figures in India. Though have many questions in mind, but reading the comments by other users I am able to clarify them, Hence I would not like to repeat any of them. This definitely gives a better understanding on the actual scenario.

I had known that Maruti by default would the leader in the most segments purely because of their products and also their ASS. Personal Opinion, their cars can be vouched for any day for long term durability. I just hope Ritz doesnt get discontinued though 5k+ is actually a good number for it to sustain and continue.

[SchumiFan]

Originally Posted by Car Architect

Compared to the other cars in the very segment!! Zest, Amaze and Xcent offer more space. Period. Be it legroom, shoulder room or headroom, even the seat backrest angle and under thigh support (Xcent and Zest are better than Amaze in this criteria) is better than the Dzire. And coming to the boot space it's the dzire which has least of it

Xcent - 407
Amaze-400
Zest-360-390
Dzire-316

These are all irrefutable facts that most of the car analysts conclude and there is no denying it.

Yes, dzire is very fuel efficient and so are the other cars in the segment with dzire holding a slight advantage. Please don't over do the mileage factor of Dzire.

Now coming to the perceived quality, Xcent and the Zest have much better quality than Dzire and even the amaze is up to the level of dzire. Zest and even the Xcent will leave the Dzire dead when it comes to equipment levels.

Except for the boot space you have not quoted any facts as such, something you blamed the other user in your previous post. The equipment levels in Dzire, Zest, Xcent are the same (except for the HK system in Zest and the reverse camera in Xcent). Only the Amaze misses out on quite a few things here.

One look at the dashboard of Amaze and Dzire, we can very well tell which is more upmarket. So no use talking about how Amaze is on the same level as Dzire. That is simply not true.

Originally Posted by Car Architect

Exactly my point in the previous comment mentioning "being Maruti".

My point about it being a Maruti was an open compliment with reasoning about its service and the post I quoted was a back handed compliment & maybe a lil insult to the product as well.

Anyway, the 15K+ people buying the product are not fools to throw their money at an inferior product and if other manufacturers want a share of the pie, they need to put in the effort as well like Hyundai has done in the past.

[FuelInjector]

Originally Posted by @KP

Yes. Wait for the facelift launch and coupled with their attractive finance schemes, expect the Vento to do a steady 1000-1500 units sales

interesting. Never saw that kind of a trend when toyotoas were facelifting innova. the old one was still selling like hot cakes

[RSR]

The Dzire's sales figure of 19,663 units includes offtake numbers of both the sub-4m new Dzire (16,473 units) and the 4m+ old Dzire Tour (3,190 units).

This is not to take anything away from the Dzire's massive monthly sales numbers. In fact, it only shows that the two Dzires have a huge lead in both the sub-4m C1 & 4m+ C1 sub-segments.

The new Dzire (16,473) outsells all its sub-4m rivals put together. Even if one adds the sales numbers of Xcent (4,871), Amaze (3,699), Indigo CS* (2,027), Zest (1,866) and Verito Vibe (43), it only comes to 12,506 units.

Similarly (and rather surprisingly), the old Dzire Tour (3,190) outsells all its 4m+ rivals put together. Sales of competitors^ such as Etios (2,550), Sail sedan (429) and Verito (188) add up to only 3,167 units.

The Dzire has both sub-segments (sub-4m & 4m+) of the C1 segment firmly under its control.

Notes:

* - 2,027 units for Indigo CS technically includes unknown units of the 4m+ Manza. However, after the launch of Zest, it's unlikely that too many of those are Manzas. So I've included that number in the sub-4m C1 sub-segment.

^ - With launch of the new Figo Aspire sub-4m compact sedan around the corner, it's likely that the 4m+ Classic's production has been shut down. So I've considered the 46 units of Fiesta+Classic to be solely those of the new Fiesta (which competes in the C2 segment).

[romeomidhun]

Originally Posted by SchumiFan

Except for the boot space you have not quoted any facts as such, something you blamed the other user in your previous post. The equipment levels in Dzire, Zest, Xcent are the same (except for the HK system in Zest and the reverse camera in Xcent). Only the Amaze misses out on quite a few things here.

One look at the dashboard of Amaze and Dzire, we can very well tell which is more upmarket. So no use talking about how Amaze is on the same level as Dzire. That is simply not true.

My point about it being a Maruti was an open compliment with reasoning about its service and the post I quoted was a back handed compliment & maybe a lil insult to the product as well.

Anyway, the 15K+ people buying the product are not fools to throw their money at an inferior product and if other manufacturers want a share of the pie, they need to put in the effort as well like Hyundai has done in the past.

Well said. People are becoming blind when it comes to opposing Maruti / Dzire. They jut find reasons not to buy a car which is bought by 17K people per month.

Originally Posted by Sunsh!nes

I just hope Ritz doesnt get discontinued though 5k+ is actually a good number for it to sustain and continue.

There are news that Ritz will be discontinued for YRA. Maruti is selling Ritz cheaper than Swift, though it is more spacious. They are in the process of bringing YRA which is more spacious and premium than Swift, and will be pricier too. Maruti will be saying: if you want more space and specs, pay a premium

[@KP]

Originally Posted by FuelInjector

interesting. Never saw that kind of a trend when toyotoas were facelifting innova. the old one was still selling like hot cakes

Even the Vento was doing a steady 1K unit average monthly (not exactly hot cakes though )

I was just justifying the drop in sales for May - maybe VW was clearing old stock. Hopefully after the facelift, the numbers might hover between 1000 and 1500

[Car Architect]

I think we are going way out of topic.

Originally Posted by SchumiFan

Except for the boot space you have not quoted any facts as such, something you blamed the other user in your previous post.

What facts I didn't provide you??? Do you want me to provide a detailed quote (from experts) for each and every words that I put forth in a forum! Or do you want me to measure the space available in every car using a tape? Look, Dzire has the smallest cabin space from the segment. If you still don't believe so, bring me some facts that dzire's cabin space is on par with others.

Please don't misrepresent my posts. It was the 'other user' who blamed others for dismissing dzire by not providing hard evidence and then went on to say other cars in the category were unfit to called as a competitor to dzire, without providing any facts at first place and I just took a mention of it.

Here, I provided you with some legit points to counter your theory that dzire is as large as others as far as the cabin space is concerned. And you accuse me of not providing any hard facts. Again if you still think that dzire has equal cabin space as other cars in the segment, feel free to counter me with hard facts as you always wanted.

Originally Posted by SchumiFan

The equipment levels in Dzire, Zest, Xcent are the same (except for the HK system in Zest and the reverse camera in Xcent). Only the Amaze misses out on quite a few things here.

One look at the dashboard of Amaze and Dzire, we can very well tell which is more upmarket. So no use talking about how Amaze is on the same level as Dzire. That is simply not true.

Is that so?? The Zest provides you with cornering stability control(CSC), three diving modes (petrol variants only) Voice commands, display for reverse parking sensors, DRL's, Projector head lamp, Exact door opening warning, Gear shift suggestion tool, follow home headlamp (activated via a button on key fob), Bluetooth calling which enables you to sync your entire contact with the car, AMT in diesel and more importantly safety in the middle variant.

Coming to Xcent, it comes with auto dimming IRVM, cooled glove box, 1 GB internal storage for audio files, rear AC vents, gear shift suggesting tool, 12V power slot for rear passenger. But it misses out on fuel consumption and DTE meter.

Agreed the amaze dash look bare basic, but with the recent upgrade it offers touch screen audio and builtin navigation with voice commands. They have added blue tooth audio streaming and also auto folding ORVM's. So amaze isn't bare basic when it comes to equipment as you suggest.

Originally Posted by SchumiFan

My point about it being a Maruti was an open compliment with reasoning about its service and the post I quoted was a back handed compliment & maybe a lil insult to the product as well.

I concur with you on this one.

Originally Posted by SchumiFan

Anyway, the 15K+ people buying the product are not fools to throw their money at an inferior product and if other manufacturers want a share of the pie, they need to put in the effort as well like Hyundai has done in the past.

I never suggested Dzire as an inferior product, I just highlighted it's short coming with others and the way it's competence was blown out of proportion.

[Motormania]

We are being myopic while commenting on the superiority of any product/manufacturer. We are missing out on some very important factors in making our judgement.

The kind of sales reach that Maruti has in the nook and corners of the country gives them a huge advantage. There are thousands of places where only Maruti has presence. The general population in these areas hold Maruti in very high regards, and not without any reason. There may be people who might opt for an alternate product, if they have the option readily available. This is what gives Maruti a huge edge over others. Ever wondered why other companies are increasingly focusing on rural penetration? That is where the incremental numbers come from.

Credit must be given where it is due. Maruti has been extremely aggressive in network expansion all these years and ATL/BTL activities.

Hyundai seems to be doing an extremely good job of taping the new young crowd with their products.

[IndiFuture]

Before the Dzire vs rest debate goes out of control, I would like to state a fact I had previously mentioned in another thread.
Sometime back, when I went shopping for a sedan, I visited Tata, Honda, Hyundai, Maruti, Fiat and Ford. After that, Fiat never bothered to call me back, Ford & Tata probably once, and Honda a couple of times. Maruti kept calling me, and even after I say that I don't want their car, they change the executive who again calls me and asks if I'm still interested. I think I had to tell them that I already bought a car, and only then they stopped, and that too after taking a detailed feedback on why I didn't choose their car. (It's been a while, so can't remember the entire sequence of events, but the overall story is what I wrote.)
So you see, Maruti has a stated policy of never letting a customer go. When others start doing this, probably they'll catch up. Until then, let's not fight.

[simplyself]

Originally Posted by IndiFuture

Before the Dzire vs rest debate goes out of control, I would like to state a fact I had previously mentioned in another thread.
Sometime back, when I went shopping for a sedan, I visited Tata, Honda, Hyundai, Maruti, Fiat and Ford. After that, Fiat never bothered to call me back, Ford & Tata probably once, and Honda a couple of times. Maruti kept calling me, and even after I say that I don't want their car, they change the executive who again calls me and asks if I'm still interested. I think I had to tell them that I already bought a car, and only...

Quite true. I had gone to the Maruti showroom in Hyderabad, got my Santro driven for evaluation, then asked for Dzire. The evaluator was surprised that my car was in such a good condition after 53000 km and regretted that he cannot offer more as the colour was black and resale is a bit less for that colour.

They kept on calling me every other day. After a fortnight I bought Zest. When he called, I said I had bought Zest. He politely asked me why I preferred the Zest over Dzire. In the end, he couldn't resist saying it is Tata.

A sales woman from another Maruti showroom practically demanded explanation as to why I didn't buy Dzire from them. It was funny as she didn't know what is Zest, a sedan or an hatchback. I was in splits for a couple of minutes after the call.

A Hyundai guy derisively said it is a Tata when I test drove the Xcent and said I was considering Zest too. Another from the same showroom sought to know why I preferred Zest.

Tata guys at a showroom in Hyderabad didn't even bothered to offer me a test drive for a just launched car. Worse, he was explaining a few features over the tablet when the car is right in front of us.

Tata marketing team would call me every other day and ask me whether I had test drive.

At first , I didn't say anything. I ran out of patience and gave them an earful. Then things started rolling.

This sums up the difference of attitudes between leaders and the wannabes.

[balajisv]

It's a joke when people comment that DZire has same equipment and space as Zest or Xcent. Just because 17K people buy a car does not necessarily mean it is the *only* best car out there. There are other credible options too. If those 17K people wished not to explore and buy other options, it is their choice. Their decision no way concurs that other products are inferior. Car Architect rightly pointed out the additional features given by Zest and Xcent. If people cleverly want to ignore the positives of the competition, well, I have no qualms!
DZire is a good car. So is Zest, Xcent and Amaze. Each car has its unique strengths. Don't turn a blind eye to competition products and sing praises of one car.

[Jaggu]

Not adding to fire but MUL does have very large reach and cheaper service and relentless sales and service folks in comparison to Honda, Hyundai and Tata. And it does gives it a HUGE edge over the others.

Product wise they are just about ok but if you consider overall, new dezire has improved the finesse levels and that is a big attraction for a common buyer.

Real life example. I have a friend who bought a Dezire auto when she was considering to change her previous gen i20 due to an injury to leg. She needed an autobox and test drove all 3. Dezire (one model before current) was a clean winner even though it didn't have many of the feature including blue tooth and all. I did try my level best to make her pick accent, but no.

After couple of weeks i had a chance to test drive the car (so did fellow mod vidyut) and we both were really surprised at what the car offered and how it drove inspite of those skinny tyres and no alloys for the top end model (then)!