[Dr.Naren]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

+1.
Quite surpised (in a not so pleasant way) by the owners declaring with pride that they won't get the software updated. This would be happening across the nation surely.

I am sure that most of the owners have bought the car after doing test drive. Now if they come to know that their cars wouldn't be the same post software update and lose power.. That's very frustrating. I would blame VW again and this is a new scandal : "Detune Scandal". VW cheated with emissions before and now they are cheating the owners by saying software update won't lead to any drop in performance.

[ethanhunt123]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

+1.

Quite surpised (in a not so pleasant way) by the owners declaring with pride that they won't get the software updated. This would be happening across the nation surely.

Considering the cars were sold without confirming to the existing emission norms valid during the time of sales, hope the NGT / government takes stricter measures like cancellation of registration for vehicles that are not being updated with the new software that makes these vehicles legally road worthy.

Like Supreme Court noted in a recent verdict - Health of the nation is more important than the commercial interests. If NGT can propose cancellation of diesel vehicles under than 10 years, don't see why they can't go ahead with this! Driving pleasure / trust/ shortchanging etc has to be dealt with VW and it's customers, and the nation does not really need to wait for this!

Considering the cars were sold with a promise of a certain engine power/torque band - why not VW be forced to buyback the cars if someone is not willing to get the software update ?

Besides - what makes you say that the vehicles are not as per emission norms ? Arent the owners getting the PU certificate as per the norms ? Or you think all owners are colluding to get fake certificates ?

PS: I already got my Jetta updated but i dont see the reason for your rant against those owners unwilling to get their cars detuned for no fault of theirs

[ACM]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

+1.

Quite surpised (in a not so pleasant way) by the owners declaring with pride that they won't get the software updated.
Considering the cars were sold without confirming to the existing emission norms valid during the time of sales, hope the NGT / government takes stricter measures like cancellation of registration for vehicles that are not being updated with the new software that makes these vehicles legally road worthy.

Like Supreme Court noted in a recent verdict - Health of the nation is more important than the commercial interests.

But if the supreme court can be bothered with making these car owners comply by making them compulsorily get the software update, then the Court should be equally bothered about the consumer and make VW Group pay a penalty to the car owner.

I feel a car owner who is not compensated is not too wrong in not complying. It is a kind of rebellion and let us also consider that the Govt. and PUC checking setup in India is also at fault, after all these cars have been getting valid PUC check certificates all this years demonstrating the sham that PUC checks really are.

Why should the car buyer alone suffer. Courts should make them comply but make VW buy back the entire car at a very high price corresponding to a low 5% annual depreciation that the govt. taxation laws consider.

[SUPERSPORT]

I had my Jetta updated few months back and there are both negatives and positives. First of all the car has lost top end punch. Earlier if I mash the throttle the kick down used to be followed by a beastly rush which is missing now and instead you get a smoother response. After the update I was surprised during an overtaking manoeuvre with the tweaked response. But since the Jetta has ample power and the DSG does a brilliant job of masking any power loss you can live with it.

The positives include a bit more silent engine and almost +3kmpl improvement in fuel efficiency figures on long trips. I'm impressed at the fuel efficiency figures which this car achieves now as it is close to diesel hatchbacks. It's good to know that your car is less polluting to the environment in two fold- reduced emissions as well as fuel consumptions.

Now which map would I choose? I would still love to have the stock map which came with the car for the kick in the pants. But that's me, for majority of the drivers it won't matter and the power loss is imperceptible if you are driving sedately. I knew I would lose some punch coz if VW could've avoided diesel gate with just a remap, they would've done it in the first place isn't it! It's a shame that they resorted to these kinds of ill tricks despite brilliantly engineering cars. And since we are in India, VW knows they can easily get out of even worser things by giving us a 2000rs car care kit.

[McLaren Rulez]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

+1.
Quite surpised (in a not so pleasant way) by the owners declaring with pride that they won't get the software updated. This would be happening across the nation surely.

I agree, it is an extremely disappointing attitude. Yes, the car will not be as powerful as before and owners may feel cheated by VW but none of that is a valid reason to keep using the car without the update and continue polluting the air in the name of "driving pleasure".

Originally Posted by ACM

I feel a car owner who is not compensated is not too wrong in not complying. It is a kind of rebellion

And who wins from this rebellion? VW doesn't care whether you implement the update or not and it certainly makes no difference to their bank account. Our government's inaction is nothing new. Not being compensated is not an excuse to continue to knowingly damage the environment when there is a fix available. There is a certain element of civic responsibility and doing the right thing, even if it means losing out slightly from an individual point of view. Hopefully, most owners are mature enough to recognize that.

[ethanhunt123]

Originally Posted by McLaren Rulez

I agree, it is an extremely disappointing attitude. Yes, the car will not be as powerful as before and owners may feel cheated by VW but none of that is a valid reason to keep using the car without the update and continue polluting the air in the name of "driving pleasure".

I am sorry - but can you please show some proof that the cars without the update are polluting the air in excess of government norms ? How are they passing the Govt PUC then ?

[tilt]

Originally Posted by rpunwani

*SNIP*

The Service Manager tells me that there is no change in the power/torque; however he has not been able to get me the statement from VW - because VW cannot give the statement.*SNIP*

The Service Manager at my service centre blatantly told me that there has been no change at all done to either the ECU or any mapping of the engine etc. He said it was purely a version number change and nothing else. Does that therefore mean that any change I think there is to the car is purely my imagination since absolutely nothing has been done to the car?

Originally Posted by Dani7766

Have given my Jetta for second service today. Have told them to get my vehicle back to the previous setting. They are denying loss of power or mileage. They are telling me, it isn't possible to reset to the previous setting. Why don't we all join and fight for our rights. We have been clearly cheated. They've compensated in the US.

I was told the same thing - they said the change was irreversible.

Cheers

Originally Posted by SUPERSPORT

*SNIP*

The positives include a bit more silent engine and almost +3kmpl improvement in fuel efficiency figures on long trips. I'm impressed at the fuel efficiency figures which this car achieves now as it is close to diesel hatchbacks. *SNIP*

My case has been the opposite -

1. my engine has become noticeably louder, both in idle and in running, I can feel the engine when I am sitting inside the car. Before the neutering, the only way I knew the car was on was by looking at the tach.

2. Fuel economy has dropped rather than improve.

Cheers

[McLaren Rulez]

Originally Posted by ethanhunt123

I am sorry - but can you please show some proof that the cars without the update are polluting the air in excess of government norms ? How are they passing the Govt PUC then ?

http://overdrive.in/news/arai-finds-...orms-in-india/

The PUC check infrastructure is clearly out of date. A pass on that test is meaningless.

[H_Dogg72]

Owners are right to decline the update because it reduces the power of the car and that is what they originally paid for.
Although. If it was my own car, I would get the update. The environment is already so polluted, I'd like to reduce my carbon footprint. But honestly shouting at VW owners, who don't throw black smoke on your face and ignoring the taxis autos and trucks and buses that belch black smoke is hypocritical.
I'd suggest you guys one thing,
1. Get the software update
2. Get a remap post that
Fall in love with your car all over again.
Regarding PUC. My TSI shows 0.03 at a measure, whereas the standard is like 1.x. Indian PUC is a joke. Modern engines pollute much less.
Meanwhile enjoy the black and white smoke from commercial vehicles without making a hue and cry

[ethanhunt123]

Originally Posted by McLaren Rulez

http://overdrive.in/news/arai-finds-...orms-in-india/

The PUC check infrastructure is clearly out of date. A pass on that test is meaningless.

I might be wrong but legally i have to pass the PUC to drive the car on the road - and not go by ARAI's tests.

[McLaren Rulez]

Originally Posted by ethanhunt123

I might be wrong but legally i have to pass the PUC to drive the car on the road - and not go by ARAI's tests.

Legally, you don't have to recycle either but that doesn't mean it isn't worth doing

I just realized you own a Jetta so please do not take my post personally - it is not directed at you or any specific comment in this thread. In the end, you have the right to do as you wish since it is your car. That said, I hope you do get your software updated and sacrifice some personal gains in light of the environmental benefits. I would certainly thank you for it!

[Dani7766]

What's the difference in pollution levels before and after the corrected remap. Is there a significant difference? Yes, I understand the concern of some, that of not getting new update causes more pollution. Completely agree with that. But, I wish they also completely disagree with those getting cars remapped outside for more power. Shouldn't that be banned? How does the government approve that? I'm quite sure a remapped car or a car with a tuning box is likely to pollute more than a stock car. Also, I want people to bash all car companies who have cheated like they do to Volkswagen. When the news of other car company cheating comes, no one actually bothers.

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by ethanhunt123

I am sorry - but can you please show some proof that the cars without the update are polluting the air in excess of government norms ? How are they passing the Govt PUC then ?

I don't think that is the point. They comply before and after with government norms in all countries. However, as we see now after the retrofit they pollute more than before. Still within the norm. VW has been marketing some of these cars as green. And there are plenty of people for whom this Green Label is becoming a major factor in deciding what car to buy.

The government norm is just the absolute minimum level cars need to comply with. Many do much better, so did some of the VWs prior to the retrofit

Jeroen

[abhishek46]

Originally Posted by rpunwani

This is exactly what i believed would happen. As a marine engineer I have a good knowledge of engines. You cannot remap an engine without altering its power/torque characteristics.

The VW Downtown people have been regularly calling me to get the remap done on my Passat. They are obviously being pressured by VW. I have asked them to get a statement from VW stating the before & after power/torque.

The Service Manager tells me that there is no change in the power/torque; however he has not been able to get me the statement from VW - because VW cannot give the statement.

At times, I feel cheated by VW. Can one do anything??

Is it possible to save the stock MAP on some file/Storage drive, then get the update done for satisfaction of everybody, and then put back the stock MAP back on to restore it back to it's glory?

Originally Posted by McLaren Rulez

I agree, it is an extremely disappointing attitude. Yes, the car will not be as powerful as before and owners may feel cheated by VW but none of that is a valid reason to keep using the car without the update and continue polluting the air in the name of "driving pleasure".

Well, there are many people on our forum, who go for custom remaps/modifications on other cars as well. Wont that also pollute the environment?

[ethanhunt123]

Originally Posted by McLaren Rulez

Legally, you don't have to recycle either but that doesn't mean it isn't worth doing

I just realized you own a Jetta so please do not take my post personally - it is not directed at you or any specific comment in this thread. In the end, you have the right to do as you wish since it is your car. That said, I hope you do get your software updated and sacrifice some personal gains in light of the environmental benefits. I would certainly thank you for it!

I am not taking it personally - infact if you read my earlier post - i got mine remapped after the first call by VW. However my comment was on the apparent rage against those VW owners not wanting to go for the "detune". Instead the rage should be against VW for fooling the customers & Govt for not forcing them to pay a penalty/buyback.

And taking your recycle thing - well buying EV is also not mandatory but why not complain against those who still buy a internal combustion engine then ? If someone is following the law of the land - why rage against them ?