[blackwasp]

Originally Posted by GTO

Would you sacrifice reliability for driving pleasure?

Despite driving a hot hatch since the last year and a half, I will say that each car has its purpose. Very hard to choose a car keeping aside its purpose, let alone rationally - in most car purchases, the heart always wins and the mind covers up for the heart. The biggest issue for me personally is regret - I would never like to think when I'm 50 that I had a chance to own a particular car, yet I didn't.

We got the Abarth for the driving pleasure - But will we recommend it to someone who's not an enthusiast? Probably not.

A CNG WagonR does duty as a taxi - Run in 2 shifts and driven 6 days a week - at times 7. The main reason for choosing it was factory fitted CNG kit and the availability of spares. The later not so much as I have since discovered that you must know where to look for the spares to get them.

That being said there are 2 brands I will recommend to anyone with eyes closed - Toyota and Maruti. My dad is in the after sales of printing machines, he says that it's not about buying a reliable machine, but rather how a company handles its problems (breakdowns) and maintenance. There is no such thing as an unreliable machine - the reasons for breakdowns are: 1. Used in conditions for which the machine is not designed and 2. Improper maintenance.

[Sankar]

When I am paying for the maintenance of my depreciating asset I choose reliability and dependable service. If my company is paying for it and can write off maintenance losses I may indulge in some pleasure.

My current ride is not a track machine but it's fun. More importantly its supposed to be reliable as well.

[mxx]

Driving pleasure - no doubt about it.
If something is not exciting enough to drive for even 10 minutes, I am not going to buy it, even if it is guaranteed to run without any problems for 10 years. When we say reliability, we are discussing about relative reliability, as the cars these days are reliable enough that they dont breakdown very often.

Ironically enough, the only car which my family was stranded in on the highway was a car that is considered by many to have "bulletproof reliability" (whatever they mean by that) - toyota innova - that too after maintaining it religiously as recommended by the company always at a company authorized service centre. I am not implying that toyota is unreliable. Cars are machines with lot of complex parts and things can go wrong. So, I would rather buy something for driving pleasure, rather than worry about "what if".

[deetjohn]

For good or bad, it is not so black and white.

An Innova Crysta can also leave you and your family stranded on road.

Likewise, many cars which are great to drive can be absolutely reliable with good upkeep.

And good upkeep means doing proper service and tending to unusual noises and other oddities on time. And I believe a driver who bought that fun to drive car to make his/ her life more enjoyable won't be neglectful and will be attentive. Ask any true enthusiast about the condition of their car and they will know exactly what needs to be looked at for that upcoming service.

I am not saying things won't go wrong ever. No one can foresee a DSG failing, an AC compressor failing or a tyre bursting. So, you need a bit of luck too. And the brand matters too - especially when it comes to the engineering which has gone into the car and the competence of the service staff.

Therefore, all things considered I cannot sacrifice on driving pleasure. The Fiesta can lift my mood - and that's one of the biggest ROI I have from the car.

Also, if it was all about reliability alone, there would have been no T-BHP to begin with.

[The Rationalist]

I didn't have to think twice before opting for driving pleasure! But I'm living with the consequences of my decision, I opted for a Ford for driving pleasure and the car is in the service centre for past 14 days! I managed to have a friend's car , so I didn't have much trouble. But it's not everyday you can find a spare car.

Reliability is not a small issue after all! With increasing age maybe I will go for reliability. The perfect solution would be a reliable car that is a pleasure to drive, I lived with a Zen for one and half decades. I don't know if there is some car that fits the best of both world scenario. Maruti is the only one I guess who can give such a combination, but they don't care for the enthusiast while chasing numbers. So most of us will have to make a decision which will cause some regret, whatever the decision is.

[Sankar]

Originally Posted by deetjohn

And I believe a driver who bought that fun to drive car to make his/ her life more enjoyable won't be neglectful and will be attentive. Ask any true enthusiast about the condition of their car and they will know exactly what needs to be looked at for that upcoming service.

Thats how I ended up with a single owner 1st gen octy RS which I bought from a petrolhead doctor who was at his wits end with Skoda's tvm service center. If the only avenue for a supposedly reliable maintenance is dealer workshop then they better be reliable or the owner should have time and patience to deal with independents. Been there experienced it myself from the dealer and other independents and its not fun. When looking out for a used sporty petrol car the other car which came to mind was the old Fiesta S, the global variant didn't have the poke to match its looks even remapped.

[itsashishsharma]

Well a decade or two ago Ford/Fiat cars were considered to be less reliable. With decreasing build quality of Honda/Maruti cars and Fiats/Fords getting more and more reliable, there isn't much difference in reliability if you take good care of your car which being a TeamBhpian, you do, so fun to drive character of my Fiesta or hydraulic steering + high speed character + that lovely TJet motor of the Linea.
I can't even imagine waking up every day thinking of having a Hyundai or a Honda as my own car. Would prefer to take Uber rather. :P
No offence to existing owners.

Recently I took an Uber ride in a 2011 Ford Ikon TDCi. It had run 500000 KMs. The car had gone through numerous brake pad/clutch overhauls and twice through engine overhaul too. All performed at usual scheduled times. The driver said it has been driven by 3 guys over the past 6 years and never ever had the car left them stranded.

What I am trying to convey is, follow your heart while buying a car, you love driving and the experience of owning your car, reliability/maintenance is no more a big issue with any of the manufacturers now a days. Yes, VW DSGs have been problematic, especially the DQ200 gearbox, but then even Vernas of early days were said to have a life of 80k KMs. Early iterations of CRDi motors used to become a pain in the neck after this time.

Also, Honda City has a long, never ending thread here on various issues the 2014 model brought in. So why to buy a bland car with no feedback from its steering and see water coming down from its roof. Even if it's to be driven by a driver, Linea/Duster/Hexa have a suspension setup to have if you want to relax on the rear bench. No Japanese/Korean car can match their European counterparts in ride quality either.

[cogWheel]

In an ideal world, driving pleasure.
For me rather than pleasure vs. reliability, it has been a pleasure vs. utility-at-a-particular-budget point dilemma. Having been a single car family, the utility and convenience for our family of five at a modest budget has been the decisive factor in the choice of the current car (a Manza QJet) and the previous one (an Indica Xeta). These cars, while not widely perceived to be reliable, have, fortunately for us, proved to be safe and dependable. We have not been stranded by them over 11 years and 1.1 lakh kilometres. I think most modern cars are sufficiently reliable when used within their limitations. Of course, there are no absolutes.
Now, for the first time, I maybe be able to have a second car while retaining the all-purpose car for family duties. Hence, I intend to put my money where my mouth is and buy an all-out fun-to-drive car albeit in the "affordable" hatch segment.

[deetjohn]

Originally Posted by Sankar

If the only avenue for a supposedly reliable maintenance is dealer workshop then they better be reliable or the owner should have time and patience to deal with independents. Been there experienced it myself from the dealer and other independents and its not fun.

Well! That's why I said the brand is also important. Or you should have a very good relationship with the service center or an independent.

Originally Posted by deetjohn

And the brand matters too - especially when it comes to the engineering which has gone into the car and the competence of the service staff.

Originally Posted by Sankar

When looking out for a used sporty petrol car the other car which came to mind was the old Fiesta S, the global variant didn't have the poke to match its looks even remapped.

You have an insatiable appetite for power. Who in their right mind would try and extract more power from the 2.8 liter unit of a Crysta?

My school of thought says driving pleasure is not limited to the shove - it is just one of the parameters.

[R2D2]

To be honest I love driver's cars, high revving (petrol) engines and excellent road manners. I am a petrol head through and through. My dream car was and always will be a BMW M5 or a M3. A true wolf in sheeps clothing. This car will rekindle the devil in me accompanied by mucho scowls and lectures from my better half. The secret to capturing my heart is a refined and powerful petrol mill. It's like showing a dog a bone.

Now, back to reality. Yes, the boy-racer in me is a pretty old memory, I remember screaming down the highway in the mid '80s riding a Yamaha RD350 or a RD350 LC (LC = Liquid Cooled) at unmentionable speeds when most Indian vehicles of those days would find it difficult to cross a ton. Hey as a former Grease Monkey I even tuned multi cylinder bikes and cars. But for all my comfort level with DIY repairs I now prefer a reliable machine. Did I say that the car needs to be comfortable too? My back demands it!

Come to think of it, yeah, it does have something to do with my age.

[avdhesh15]

In my and immediate family, we have the following: City 2014, City 2017, DZire, Ciaz, Superb, Civic 2009, Altis. The Honda gives mix of both - driving pleasure is awesome on the VTECs. The Toyota and Suzuki is more reliability than pleasure. The Skoda is definitely pure pleasure.

If I were to choose personally, I would go with the likes of the City or S-Cross 320 which offer both. In the poll I've chosen reliability considering simple majority of what my cars offer.

[akshay380]

Driving pleasure gets my vote. When I bought Fiesta 1.6 second hand, I knew very well something or the other is going to fail. Indeed AC coil, wiper motor failed. Car did have some electrical issues too. But hey, a full throttle blast in 2nd gear and that glorious DuraTec roar is enough to forget everything.

PS: Now that I write this, I am off for a sprint

[asit.kulkarni93]

I really can not choose one as my perspective when it comes to reliability and driving pleasure are different.

For me, the Skoda Octavia is reliable in the RS and 2.0 TDi avatars. But I would never buy the 1.8 TSi + DSG(DQ200) combo for obvious reasons. For me both the aspects are important. At the price of an Octy 1.8 TSi, I would be more than happy to choose a used 320i/320d. I am not saying that the Octy RS/TDi or the 3-series are extremely reliable but the issues aren't as scary as the Octy 1.8 TSi.

Now if I have to choose a car for my highway travel which would also involve exploring unknown places I would stick to the Last Gen Toyota Fortuner 4x4(Last gen just for its looks). It has proven reliability + the Toyota After-sales service is fantastic. At the same time while choosing a car for my family I would consider a Crysta over the Hexa because of the better engine that the Crysta offers, proven reliability & the Toyota after-sales service. The Hexa may offer a brilliant package but the long-term reliability is unknown and after sales service is a nightmare especially with Concorde Pune(Before someone questions it's my personal experience in 2017).

At the same time, I really appreciate how certain brands have come up in the reliability aspect while retaining their fun to drive nature. Just have a look at the Ford Figo 1.5D, Ecosport Ecoboost/diesel and the Abarth Punto. Of these two Ford has come a long way ahead when it comes to the reliability and after-sales aspect. Kudos to Ford India.


Asit

[dhanushs]

What a discussion! Surprised this was not discussed till date, and happy this is discussed now, when I'm more mature than 8 years back. Ask me when I joined team bhp, and my answer would be super obvious - Choose Driving Pleasure over reliability. I'd say over my dead body.

Now, I have a 2 year old daughter, and wife.

Well, this doesnt really change my heart and I still crave that pleasure, but the thought of getting stranded somewhere with family, or going offline without a car isnt something I'm going to risk now. I've still not sorted out that 'getting stranded' part (no reliable cars in the garage), but, I've definitely sorted out the driving pleasure part and the 'no car' problem, with a couple of more FTD cars in the garage.

Ideally my garage would be:

• A reliable SUV (eg: Fortuner, Landcruiser). Reason: With todays traffic and average speed of 99% of my trips being ~20-30kmph in Kerala, I'd drive an SUV and not be concerned about the traffic (In some way) and pushing for those tight spaces.
  
• A comfy mile muncher sedan - driven by a driver. Sit in the back seat and relax, so that I cant be bothered how traffic is, or when and how to overtake.
  
• A hot petrol hatch - For those after 10PM drives and to satisfy the itch!
  
• A utility 4x4 (May be V Cross)- For all the rough roading and family purposes.
  
• A custom built 4x4 - To get to places where people rarely go and to satisfy the itch!

[Shreyans_Jain]

With the ever increasing complexity of cars with electronic everything, build quality that is going light by the day, and with crazy rules with the 10 years limit in NCR, it is a bit naive and just not practical to expect the kind of reliability where the vehicle would run trouble free for lakhs of kilometers with just regular basic maintenance. Fact is that the rules are now such that you basically HAVE TO get rid of your car after 5 or 6 years. Otherwise, you'll get nothing for it as it will anyway have to be scrapped after the 10 year mark.

That being said, it makes total sense to go for cars that give you maximum smiles per hour. Most new cars have 5 year warranty coverage nowadays. Thats about all the peace of mind needed. Cos after that, it's time to look for a change. We are all auto nuts here. Lets have fun for as long as it lasts.