[proton]

Originally Posted by ajmat

I beg to defer, the Renault 12 came out in 1970 or so. The Clio is not related or based on it at all

The DNA marries out and then back in! Pretty incestuous:

Renault12>Dacia1310>B0>Clio2

Quote
Much is misunderstood about what goes into a new Dacia, and what exactly the firm's 'B0' platform – which underpins all of its cars – owes to that which served under the 1998 Clio 2.

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review...sandero/design

[ajmat]

Originally Posted by proton

The DNA marries out and then back in! Pretty incestuous:

Renault12>Dacia1310>B0>Clio2

Quote
Much is misunderstood about what goes into a new Dacia, and what exactly the firm's 'B0' platform – which underpins all of its cars – owes to that which served under the 1998 Clio 2.

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review...sandero/design

I agree about the Clio but there is no mention of the Renault 12

[PrideRed]

Originally Posted by Reinhard

So claiming that the Esteem was an award winning car was not as bad as this Captur saga IMHO. Some configuration obviously would be different, engine would be different. Fine. But predominantly the DNA of the car was same all over the world. I don't see a big crime in that. Even Hyundai used to paste a "Euro NCAP 5 Star Rating" sticker on its pre-fluidic i20. The car we got, wasn't the same in specifications as the one that underwent that testing. So that I think will always happen to some extent and it should be OK.

What Renault is doing is outright cheating with selling a totally different car with no similarity in components. Only visual resemblance. Still can't find an example of similar magnitude as this one.

We are being partial here. Don't see how Maruti and Hyundai are different from Renault. Selling 2-3 star safety car and marketing it as "Euro NCAP 5 Star Rating" or selling a generation older car and claiming it to be good as new one is equally bad as Renault to me. Maruti/Hyundai were lucky given that Social Media wasn't active back then.

[proton]

Originally Posted by ajmat

I agree about the Clio but there is no mention of the Renault 12

The actual history is pretty convoluted, and I remember having read that Nissan made a Renault clone, which the Dacia Company produced.

Quote
The Dacia automobile company was founded in 1966 under the name Uzina de Autoturisme Pitești (UAP). The main Dacia factory was built in 1968, in Colibași (now called Mioveni), near Pitești. Dacia acquired the tooling and basic designs of the Renault 12. However, until the tooling was ready it was decided to produce the Renault 8 under licence; it was known as the Dacia 1100.[8] From 1968 to 1972, 37,546 cars of model 1100 were produced,[9] with a very minor cosmetic change to the front in early 1970. Also produced in very limited numbers was the 1100S, with twin headlamps and a more powerful engine, used by the police and in motor racing.

Nicolae Ceaușescu driving the first Dacia 1100 in 1968

Dacia 1100S (licensed R8 Gordini version)

Dacia 1300, a model from 1973
The first Dacia 1300 left the assembly line ready for 23 August parade in 1969, and was exhibited at the Paris and Bucharest shows of that year. Romanians were delighted with the modernity and reliability of the car, and waiting lists were always lengthy. By 1970, there were two variants: the standard 1300 and the 1300L (for Lux); in 1974 the 1301 Lux Super was introduced, which had novelties such as a heated rear screen, a radio, windscreen mirrors on both sides and a more luxurious trim. This was reserved for the Communist Partynomenklatura.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automobile_Dacia

Suffice to say that the B0 is an altered Renault 12 platform, modified for easy and cheaper manufacture, losing some features in the process. Something Renault found attractive for its units destined for developing markets, and which it acquired for free when it bought out Dacia!

[RaghuVis]

Originally Posted by PrideRed

We are being partial here. Don't see how Maruti and Hyundai are different from Renault. Selling 2-3 star safety car and marketing it as "Euro NCAP 5 Star Rating" or selling a generation older car and claiming it to be good as new one is equally bad as Renault to me. Maruti/Hyundai were lucky given that Social Media wasn't active back then.

You are talking like a politician. A typical "They also Do it" attitude. History is proof that supporting these will lead to disasters.


To those who are actually trying to somehow paint a sympathetic picture on Renault, please tell me which below category you guys will fall to. Am genuinely curious.

1) CD is being unfair to Renault. He cannot selectively show one company cheating. He should ensure every cheating has to be caught and shamed. Very Bad Boy!

2) MSIL/Hyundai cheated before Social Media. So Renault has every right to make their share of cheating without Social Media Scrutiny.

3) Everyone does cheating. What's the big deal.

4) Renault is a BIG Company!
5) It's only their third cheating. cut them some slack u guys

Kudos to most of the members of this community. I say most because there are some who are trying to find some illogical technicalities to support these french cheaters!

[PrideRed]

Originally Posted by RaghuVis

You are talking like a politician. A typical "They also Do it" attitude. History is proof that supporting these will lead to disasters.


To those who are actually trying to somehow paint a sympathetic picture on Renault, please tell me which below category you guys will fall to. Am genuinely curious.

1) CD is being unfair to Renault. He cannot selectively show one company cheating. He should ensure every cheating has to be caught and shamed. Very Bad Boy!

2) MSIL/Hyundai cheated before Social Media. So Renault has every right to make their share of cheating without Social Media Scrutiny.

3) Everyone does cheating. What's the big deal.

4) Renault is a BIG Company!
5) It's only their third cheating. cut them some slack u guys

Kudos to most of the members of this community. I say most because there are some who are trying to find some illogical technicalities to support these french cheaters!

Please re-read my post , I never said what Renault did was right. They are wrong and I don't support wrong doings. My reply was in reference to earlier post which supports Maruti/Hyundai who have done the same in past.

[prakash_ajp]

Originally Posted by RaghuVis

I say most because there are some who are trying to find some illogical technicalities to support these french cheaters!

I would be careful about using the "french". It might turn out that the French management was not involved at all and someone from the Indian arm was completely responsible. It's better if we leave some room for such possibilities instead of making big accusations.

Now that they have been proven guilty, I am only interested in how they respond to it.

[ajmat]

Originally Posted by proton

T
Suffice to say that the B0 is an altered Renault 12 platform, modified for easy and cheaper manufacture, losing some features in the process. Something Renault found attractive for its units destined for developing markets, and which it acquired for free when it bought out Dacia!

Am sorry, but you are making assumptions. I have looked under the hood of both cars many a time. A friend of mine had a rusty Renault 12 and I spent many a weekend helping him repair it in the weekend. The fact that the 12 has a longitude placed ahead of the front wheels as opposed to the transverse front engine of the Clio/Logan is a major different. Enough to say that the 12 had some crazy engineering. The gearbox used 10 different bolts and we could not figure which one fitted where. We bought a wrecked 12 and removed each bolt and fitted it into the car.

We are way off topic. Lets get back to the Captur

[proton]

Originally Posted by ajmat

Am sorry, but you are making assumptions. I have looked under the hood of both cars many a time. A friend of mine had a rusty Renault 12 and I spent many a weekend helping him repair it in the weekend. The fact that the 12 has a longitude placed ahead of the front wheels as opposed to the transverse front engine of the Clio/Logan is a major different. Enough to say that the 12 had some crazy engineering. The gearbox used 10 different bolts and we could not figure which one fitted where. We bought a wrecked 12 and removed each bolt and fitted it into the car.

We are way off topic. Lets get back to the Captur

I searched again and i think you could be right. Then:

Suffice to say that the B0 is an altered Clio2 (!) platform, modified for easy and cheaper manufacture, losing some features in the process. Something Renault found attractive for its units destined for developing markets, and which it acquired for free when it bought out Dacia!

Clio II> Clio IV (Europe) > Captur (Europe)

Clio II> Kaptur (Russia) > Captur (India)

[Captain Slow]

Here is a very nice Video of the real CAPTUR

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-aXl0HWV38

Can someone check if we get any of these features in our Kaptur?

[Reinhard]

A bit off topic. But instead of this stunt, it would have been a lot better if they had brought the actual CLIO itself to India! Could have worked better for them. Bringing a good looking feature rich all rounded hatch-back option. I like that car.

This cheating approach has instead damaged their image. While the news is still being suppressed as much as possible by the so called auto-media giants, it is hard to keep it so for long in today's socially connected world. Glad that TBHP is a contributor to the good causes like this and countless more and I'm associated with it!

[PrideRed]

Originally Posted by Captain Slow

Here is a very nice Video of the real CAPTUR

Can someone check if we get any of these features in our Kaptur?

Things that look same(or similar):
1. Dashboard design
2. HU
3. Push Start Button
4.6(or 4) airbags with ABS/EBD and ESC. Hill hold assist
5. Key Fob.

Things that don't:
1.Size
2.No projectors, Indian version gets all LED.
3.Alloys
4. Texture/material used in making dashboard.

[rajeshsundaram]

Ah.. err, well I think one of the side effects of this Renault issue exposed in TBHP is - Here after, TBHP will never get invited to new car launches from Renault or Nissan I guess.

Jokes apart, what Renault did is absolutely unethical in todays Social connected world. They may go unscathed without any damage. But they lost a lot of respect in certain circles now.

[Nissan1180]

Originally Posted by Reinhard

A bit off topic. But instead of this stunt, it would have been a lot better if they had brought the actual CLIO itself to India! Could have worked better for them. Bringing a good looking feature rich all rounded hatch-back option. I like that car.

This cheating approach has instead damaged their image. While the news is still being suppressed as much as possible by the so called auto-media giants, it is hard to keep it so for long in today's socially connected world. Glad that TBHP is a contributor to the good causes like this and countless more and I'm associated with it!

Agree! Clio is a great hatchback. I keep seeing them here and they have considerable presence. I wish the competition also publicize this deception in their advertisements... but that's possibly not going to happen. I stopped trusting Renault when I found a test drive Kwid with a Glove Box lid that broke when I pressed it with a bit more pressure than it was designed to. I'm used to a Nano so you can guess how poor the plastic quality in the Kwid is.

[ajmat]

Originally Posted by rajeshsundaram

Ah.. err, well I think one of the side effects of this Renault issue exposed in TBHP is - Here after, TBHP will never get invited to new car launches from Renault or Nissan I guess.

Well, with our extensive base, someone is always willing to lend their car to us for a review.

Remember, if a manufacturer thinks their car is good, they will want us to test and tell you all about it. The Captur has some good points but alas the ad campaign and the resulting tarnishing of the brand is overshadowing this.