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Old 5th February 2018, 11:10   #16
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Default Re: Indian Car Sales: Interesting charts depicting brand, budget, fuel & body style preferences

Quote:
Originally Posted by rahulrajeev View Post
1. Maruti has 6 petrol engines, you mentioned it as 5. (800C on Alto, 1L on K10, ubiquitous 1.2L, 1.4L on Ciaz, 1.3L on Gypsy & 1L Boosterjet)
2. You missed the 2.4L Diesel engine of Toyota.
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Originally Posted by volkman10 View Post
The fantastic data is from Auto Punditz. There seem to be some misses in the chart though.
To be fair, the chart captures only cubic capacity of the engines. Quite likely Auto Punditz clubbed both 1L engines (K10, Boosterjet) - perhaps because of the usage of the same engine block. Whether they should have done that or not is another question, though.

Also, while you are right about the missing 2.4L Diesel for Toyota (on service in Innova), the count (of Toyota Diesel engines available in Indian market) in the table is indeed 3.

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Old 5th February 2018, 11:14   #17
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Default Re: Indian Car Sales: Interesting charts depicting brand, budget, fuel & body style preferences

Quote:
Originally Posted by rahulrajeev View Post
1. Maruti has 6 petrol engines, you mentioned it as 5. (800C on Alto, 1L on K10, ubiquitous 1.2L, 1.4L on Ciaz, 1.3L on Gypsy & 1L Boosterjet)
You missed the 1.2L G-series used in Eeco.
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Old 9th February 2018, 14:50   #18
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Default Re: Indian Car Sales: Interesting charts depicting brand, budget, fuel & body style preferences

Further analyzing the Customer Buying Criteria,

Right Product and right Price are the key ingredients of a successful product at launch ( Affordable, reliable and consistent After-Sales-Service is key to sustainability are given criteria for success). But fierce competition shows that it could be short lived if not guarded properly in generating interests by virtue of valuable face-lifts and value additions.
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For example -Renault Duster was runaway success, in medium run before competition came in, and Kwid did what Hyundai fail to deliver with Eon, despite Renault having relatively slim footprint across India. Resurgence of Tata Motors as a result of HORIZONEXT strategy is another example.
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Volume Distribution across Price Range (Ex-Showroom)

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Global Vs Indian thought process in Brand perception

Globally Skoda is a non-premium brand in the VAG group, but in India the picture is different even in terms of volumes.

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Maruti Suzuki's Nexa strategy:

Debatable but could prove successful in the long run, but current scenario is a bit skewed. What difference one could observe at NEXA is the ambience over the regular Maruti showroom ?

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Neither Baleno nor Ignis, sold through NEXA, seems premium over Dzire and new Swift. Current product mix seems to be misplaced across sales channel. Also potential buyers need to visit two different showrooms for products which fall in similar price band. Has Suzuki succeeded in creating premium brand image with NEXA? Super success of Brezza, a lifestyle oriented product, sold through regular Maruti showrooms, raises question on efficacy of a separate and expensive to maintain NEXA sales channel.
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Revenue (estimates) Generated in Each Price Band: ( SUV +MUV lead the way)

Going by prevalent trend and potential buyer’s aspiration, it seems the best way to fill these gaps is with aggressive looking, well-equipped and aggressively priced diesel SUV or to certain extent a MUV, sedan will sure struggle for volume though.

Quote:
The figures provided below are conservative estimates for illustration purpose, calculated based on base price (excluding GST/Excise/VAT/Dealer Margin) of each model, diesel and petrol variant considered separately and actual figures based on particular variant of model might vary
Indian Car Sales: Interesting charts depicting brand, budget, fuel & body style preferences-ap6.jpg

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Last edited by volkman10 : 9th February 2018 at 14:56.
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Old 16th February 2018, 11:01   #19
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Default Re: Indian Car Sales: Interesting charts depicting brand, budget, fuel & body style preferences

Quote:
Originally Posted by volkman10 View Post
- 40% of diesel cars sold in India are powered by Fiatís Engine.
Very true that's why it's nicknamed National engine.
What will be the percentage of cars in India with the 3 largest selling engines.
Fiat 1.3, Renault Nissan k9k and the M&M/tata/Ford 2.2.
The 1.5 lit k9k comes in Renault Logan, Pulse, Duster, Skala and Lodgy Nissan uses it in Micra, Suny, and Terrano while Mahindra uses it in Verito.
the Mahindra Mhawk with 85mm bore and 96 mm stroke is same as the Tata 2.2 lit Dicor and Ford 2.2 Diesel.

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Old 17th February 2018, 09:07   #20
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Default Re: Indian Car Sales: Interesting charts depicting brand, budget, fuel & body style preferences

The UV segment is currently dominated by Maruti Suzuki and Hyndai.

With the preference for the SUV-ish look this segment is speculated to boom. All manufacturers have indicated future cars to be planted in this segment.

Quote:
analysis indicates that an outsize share of this growth comes from only three models, Brezza and Ertiga from MarutiBSE -2.00 % and Creta from Hyundai, respectively
How will the market share in the UV segment look like in coming years?

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Quote:
Although UVs have shown volume CAGR of 16.5% over CY11-17, excluding Maruti and Hyundai the growth is only 7.2%, lower than the 7.8% in the overall passenger car segment
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Quote:
Korean automaker Kia and MG from China's SAIC Motor have announced plans to launch SUVs in India in 2019. While this has generated excitement among industry watchers, hard numbers suggest the fate of the sector will continue to ride on Maruti and Hyundai
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Old 17th February 2018, 10:07   #21
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Default Re: Indian Car Sales: Interesting charts depicting brand, budget, fuel & body style preferences

Is there a way to find out which variants the customers are buying?

A general understanding is that mid and top spec variants are most popular, but is there data to back this?

I did look at Auto Punditz website, but couldn't find it.
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Old 18th February 2018, 20:34   #22
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Default Re: Indian Car Sales: Interesting charts depicting brand, budget, fuel & body style preferences

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rahul Rao View Post
the Mahindra Mhawk with 85mm bore and 96 mm stroke is same as the Tata 2.2 lit Dicor and Ford 2.2 Diesel.
Could you elaborate on the Ford engine being the same as the Tata/ Mahindra one.

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Old 19th February 2018, 09:24   #23
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Default Re: Indian Car Sales: Interesting charts depicting brand, budget, fuel & body style preferences

India retains its small car image .

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Cars having length of 4m or less has completely cemented their position in Indian passenger vehicle market, with close to 75% of cars sold in last three years are small (4m or less in length).
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Driver of the change is the tax structure introduced by the Government way back in 2006, to make India a manufacturing hub for small and fuel-efficient cars.

Hatchbacks are not the real beneficiary of the tax structure out here. Rather it’s the sedan and SUV body shape which has shown remarkable growth.
Prestige in ownership of a Sedan, price point and the ability of manufactures to package a <4m compact sedan are contributors to this growing market.

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The growing demand for Pseudo SUV is another topic altogether, and will grow further in coming years.

Fuel preference
While small cars are predominantly petrol and as body size increases, buyers opt for diesel engine. Will this change in the BSVI scenario?

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Body Type:

No surprises here, SUV growth rate actually outpaced the growth rate of other segments by leaps and bounds.

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With more number of 4m SUV lined up by manufacturers (Datsun, Hyundai and Mahindra), SUV will soon be undisputed leader.

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Hatchback

Overall hatchback growth rate is pretty low in comparison to overall industry growth rate, thus decline in overall market share.
Smaller hatchbacks are losing market share and buyers are migrating to larger hatchback. A clear sign of rising aspiration level backed by purchasing power.

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Sedan
This market is purely driven by the Compact sedan(< 4m)

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SUV

Ford Ecosport has actually brought the segment into limelight and Maruti Suzuki Brezza later bulldozed its way in this segment. Segment is poised to expand further with all new manufactures and existing ones declaring interest in this segment.

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MUV
Tax structure hasn’t had any significant impact on MUV segment, relatively a flat growth.

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Utility Vehicle (UV) Chassis
A new breed of urban, pseudo, compact UV- monocoque construction is the most preferred chassis

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Manufacturers

Maruti Suzuki is champion of small cars indeed. Pick up any segment under 4m, and you will find a Maruti Suzuki product standing at top of podium. On the other side of spectrum it is Toyota with its deeply entrenched and high margin products, namely Innova and Fortuner.

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Indian Car Sales: Interesting charts depicting brand, budget, fuel & body style preferences-a16.jpg


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Last edited by volkman10 : 19th February 2018 at 09:27.
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Old 19th February 2018, 10:17   #24
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Default Re: Indian Car Sales: Interesting charts depicting brand, budget, fuel & body style preferences

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post
Could you elaborate on the Ford engine being the same as the Tata/ Mahindra one.
The bore, stroke, and the crankshaft are the same connecting is slightly different look wise, but dimensions are the same.
Open up the engines side by side and you will be able to interchange most parts.
I very much doubt that two designers working totally independently came to the exact same design. We know that Tata and M&M consulted the same company, and that Ford is also heavily dependent on consulatats for smaller engines. Finally all 3 engines pay patent fee for US Patent 8,770,168 (Ricardo) for the swirl chamber vortex design.
We can very well say that if the tata & M&M engines are twins, the Ford engine is the third sibling.

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Old 19th February 2018, 21:44   #25
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Default Re: Indian Car Sales: Interesting charts depicting brand, budget, fuel & body style preferences

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rahul Rao View Post
The bore, stroke, and the crankshaft are the same connecting is slightly different look wise, but dimensions are the same.
Bore and stroke are such poor indicators of an engines ancestry that one should not use it to establish lineage. Think in reverse - same engine family but different capacities, achieved by different bore and stroke dimensions.

Also same bore, same stroke, => cranks are going to look remarkably similar also. (The 4 cyl 4 stroke has only two firing orders, both leading to the same crank configuration).

But
Quote:
Open up the engines side by side and you will be able to interchange most parts.
This goes much deeper. If correct, I'd agree with you! But we need more facts. For starters any stripdown pictures.

It is possible that Ford is buying (possibly also licensing, but that for a number of reasons seems less likely) this engine from a specialised supplier (think VM Motori for eg). In either case, after GMs fiasco with mix and match of engine brands, manufacturers make this information public, even if it is in the fine print. (Oftentimes the opposite - they brag about it - eg. Dodge and Cummins.) If this engine is being sold in the first world (ie. strong consumer protection laws) then this information should not be hard to find. Maybe some forum member can help.

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Old 20th February 2018, 09:52   #26
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Default Re: Indian Car Sales: Interesting charts depicting brand, budget, fuel & body style preferences

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post
Also same bore, same stroke, => cranks are going to look remarkably similar also. (The 4 cyl 4 stroke has only two firing orders, both leading to the same crank configuration).

This goes much deeper. If correct, I'd agree with you! But we need more facts. For starters any stripdown pictures.
True, but if the center to center distance of pistons differs by even one mm it will be a different design. Firing order is one thing, and even different tune versions of the same engines have different injection timing and cam lobe shapes, so that cannot be considered either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post
It is possible that Ford is buying (possibly also licensing, but that for a number of reasons seems less likely) this engine from a specialised supplier (think VM Motori for eg).
It is also possible that all three consulted the same design teams. In the end all engines were developed to geometric perfection half a century ago. What improves is metallurgy, electronic control on valve and injection timing. In case of petrol spark too.

Only true geometric change that has come up in the last few years, and that too only for big diesels is the variable compression engine, though the technology existed since 1920's it did not come into real use till 2012.
Here the crank main bearings shift fractionally to lower both tdc and bdc and provide a lower geometric compression and higher turbo blow when high torque is needed, and increases geometric compression ratio, and reduces amount of air and fuel injected in the engine when it is cruising at one speed on a plain surface.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:GEN4_4inline.jpg

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Old 20th February 2018, 20:49   #27
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Default Re: Indian Car Sales: Interesting charts depicting brand, budget, fuel & body style preferences

^^^
Will wait for further inputs from your side. In the meantime maybe you can educate us on the mHawk/ Tata 2.2 - similarities and differences. One should concentrate on the block, but the easiest starting point would be the cylinder head gaskets.

The question of engine paternity comes up from time to time. My (scattered) thoughts
https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techn...ml#post2615796 (Is the mHawk140 = 2.2 FMTECH 4 = DiCOR 2.2 VTT)
onwards.
I think the last post in that thread is yours!

Regards
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Old 28th February 2018, 08:18   #28
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Default Re: Indian Car Sales: Interesting charts depicting brand, budget, fuel & body style preferences

In small SUV, India drives past Japan; the US is next - Vitara Brezza and Creta are the drivers in this segment.

Quote:
The country overtook Japan in 2017 as the third largest market for compact SUVs — those up to 4.2 metres long and with a price tag of ₹15 lakh
Quote:
Maruti Suzuki, Hyundai Motor, Ford Motor, Mahindra & Mahindra, Renault and others sold 457,698 compact SUVs last year, over four times more than the 107,634 units they sold in 2015.
Sales grew nearly 50% from 307,365 units in 2016.
Maruti Suzuki plans for the bigger SUV above Brezza( Vitara ?) and a smaller one below Brezza ( Future S)


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All new entrants ( Kia, MG, PSA , etc.) are likely to be in the utility space.


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Old 20th March 2018, 10:12   #29
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Default Re: Indian Car Sales: Interesting charts depicting brand, budget, fuel & body style preferences

2017 Passenger Market sales pattern,


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- 16 brands ( incl. GM) in fray, 2 top companies together commanding 67% Market Share.

- In comparison globally, market leaders will have <30 % of market share, here it is ~ 50% by Maruti Suzuki.


Indian Car Sales: Interesting charts depicting brand, budget, fuel & body style preferences-27.jpg

Reasons for disastrous sale figures of Global players,

- No commitment to succeed as lack of parent group attention is nil

- Flawed strategy and slow to react and adapt

- India still perceived as a price conscious market when in reality customers are moving to a more premium offering

Example of sales performance of Toyota's 'Build to Cost' Etios vs its premium offering: i

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Luxury segment follows the global trend with Mercdes-Benz leading the race,

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Old 28th March 2018, 12:42   #30
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Default Re: Indian Car Sales: Interesting charts depicting brand, budget, fuel & body style preferences

changed Market Dynamics since 2012,

With exception of ₹ 12 Lakhs+ segment, the market leader Maruti Suzuki has covered all mass market segments, to be precise – 89%.

Maruti's intended Nexa establishment is intended to cover the perceived premium + the rest ( ₹ 12 Lakh +), which will be the real test for the market leader.

Indian Car Sales: Interesting charts depicting brand, budget, fuel & body style preferences-111.jpg

Market Competitiveness:

Indian Car Sales: Interesting charts depicting brand, budget, fuel & body style preferences-29.jpg

Mahindra:

Mahindra is the one who has lost its competitive edge big time in past 5 years. All game changing products but post that nothing is working for them. New launches failed to make a mark.

Future Outlook,

Upcoming products (MUV-Innova rival, 4m monocoque SUV/Crossover-Brezza rival, 4.3m monocoque SUV/Crossover-Creta rival, Ssangyong Rexton) seems promising but competition is really fierce and Mahindra needs to be really good, to be in the game.

Tata :

On the contrary to Mahindra's story, though Tata's have come with a big baggage owing to the past, its new launches have paved the way for a new beginning.

Future product line seems promising. If they could turnaround Safari Storme just like Aria (to Hexa), they could beat Mahindra in its own game.

Renault :

Apart from KWID they need to do a product refresh across the range and stay focused.
Product planning and positioning debacle, like Captur, has just derailed that momentum.

Honda :

New Amaze seem promising and depends on the market response( pricing) when launched.

Quote:
VW’s recent move to downsize the naturally aspirated petrol engine in fastest growing premium hatchback segment looks regressive competitive strategy. On paper performance figure is underwhelming. Potential buyers getting their numbers feed from internet, typically rely on paper figures. So, such a move in a segment which is predominantly petrol powered (75%+) is confounding. Japanese and Koreans are much better at making naturally aspirated petrol engine, at least on papers (power+torque+mileage), but on road performance and sales figure (observation : Mileage is directly proportional to sales figure) too corroborate this.
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