[su1978]

At last someone realizes that the country largest car maker has been taking advantage of the loose laws and has taken everyone for a ride. For the ones who are not aware, please open the website of Maruti suzuki and go thru the list of directors. Many of them are either serving or ex-bureaucrats. They know where to press the button and how much they would stand to gain from exploitation of which channel. It is for a common man to understand and improve his understanding about how he is being taken for ride by either the politicians or the business. Till that time-happy exploitation

[m8002?]

I dont understand why people are targeting MS. They went by the definition and there is no proof that the certification agencies favored MS. Any of the manufacturers could have launched a similar mild hybrid, got the subsidy and passed it on the end customer. None bothered to do so.

The definition was changed, they lost the subsidy and reverted back to old higher price. I think they played it fair and smart.

[Rahul Rao]

I totally agree with this person, a similar technology was used by Mahindra,BMW, Mercedes and Audi , but they neither claimed nor received this subsidy. The only true Hybrid vehicles sold in India are the Camry Hybrid, and the Volvo 8400.

The Volvo can be driven totally on electric without the engine on up to speed upto 20 kph, even in normal driving engine idles powering the generator, while motors take it upto 20 kph after which the clutch engages. As per NMMT which has the largst fleet regular diesel Ac buses consume 95 to 115 lit of diesel for the 250 km they cover every day where as the Hybrid needs about 70, the variation on heavy traffic days is also within 5%.

http://www.volvobuses.in/content/dam...17-teaser3.jpg

The Camry hybrid users also often report extreme high effeciency like 17km/lit way higher than equvalently sized petrol cars.
This action by Maruti not only defrauded the government, but also prevented the Hybrid automobiles from entering our market, as they got taxed at the highest rate.
World wide there are only two terms for Hybrids, Series Hybrid and Parallel Hybrid. The series Hybrid vehicles can also be of plug in type, and can run some distance totally on batteries. This mild Hybrid term introduced as a marketing word by Mahindras (note they did not claim any subsidy here) was later milked by Maruti.

Once Maruti is made to pay the compensation and penalty, some sort of reduced GST rate should be introduced on Series Hybrids that can run at least 40 kms on battery only, this will allow people to do most of their in city drive only on eletric, and to exit city in electric mode while travelling out of town.

Rahul

[VeeTee]

Originally Posted by Rahul Rao

I totally agree with this person, a similar technology was used by Mahindra,BMW, Mercedes and Audi , but they neither claimed nor received this subsidy. The only true Hybrid vehicles sold in India are the Camry Hybrid, and the Volvo 8400.
The Volvo can be driven totally on electric without the engine on up to speed upto 20 kph, even in normal driving engine idles powering the generator, while motors take it upto 20 kph after which the clutch engages. As per NMMT which has the largst fleet regular diesel Ac buses consume 95 to 115 lit of diesel for the 250 km they cover every day where as the Hybrid needs about 70, the variation on heavy traffic days is also within 5%.
http://www.volvobuses.in/content/dam...17-teaser3.jpg

Rahul

Rahul,
The classification of hybrids you have mentioned aren't the only ones. This article gives a much broader view (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid_vehicle_drivetrain). Mild hybrid as a term has been existent much longer.

Maruti interpreted the rule and used it. Nothing wrong it that. As many have pointed out, once the rule was modified the subsidy stopped. So, the onus lies with the policy makers. Just because others didn't utilize it, doesn't mean they need to be retroactively penalized for something which wasn't illegal in the first place.

[Shreyans_Jain]

What Maruti did was totally unethical. But it was not illegal. It was the government who came up with the poorly written rule. As such it is not fair to expect the courts to make Maruti pay up retrospectively.

[saket77]

Maruti never 'snatched' the subsidy forcefully from the Govt. If its hybrid was not hybrid enough to qualify for the subsidy, it was upto the Govt to decide. Maruti is into a business and it did what gave it an upper hand in the market- lower prices by way of subsidies.

I don't know why Maruti should be targeted here. It was in the hands of Govt as to approve it or disapprove it anyway.

Regards,
Saket.

[Hells Bells]

For me, MUL represents what all is wrong in moving towards a mature & a technically sophisticated auto market. Even as they were amongst the first in the auto makers to break free from the shackles of license raj, they made safety "optional" even as they were well positioned to make new roads in India.

Same way, they have gone ahead with the AMT culture instead of looking to make better auto trannies more affordable through their volumes.

There are arguments of horses for courses in context of Indian market as a justification for their cheaper solutions. However, I find it amusing that we have cars like Ignis masquerading as "premium" cars through their Nexa dealership even as they promote inferior tech through their so-called premium range. With their volume play, MUL are forcing rest of the industry to go down the same path as other needs to remain competitive vis-a-vis MUL.

The SVHS is yet another example of inferior tech being promoted as Hybrid rather than making a genuine investment in foresighted R&D. MUL gives me a sense of deja-vu when I remember what became of Hero after Honda broke away from their partnership. With zero in-house R&D from Hero, they were suddenly left with no cutting tech to offer to India consumers even as the market moved towards premiumization. Result - Karizma was left floundering with only new sticker jobs as a refresh.

My rant against MUL ends for today.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by Shreyans_Jain

What Maruti did was totally unethical. But it was not illegal.

Possibly the best and simplest way to explain the scenario.

And as such - fickle minded government policies are more to be blamed rather than Maruti Suzuki in itself. How many rule revisions have we seen and companies tend to find their way around it - one way or the other.

[Rahul Rao]

Originally Posted by VeeTee

The classification of hybrids you have mentioned aren't the only ones. This article gives a much broader view (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid_vehicle_drivetrain). Mild hybrid as a term has been existent much longer.

I dont want to argue for argument sake, but wikipedia is not a standard for automobiles. ASTM International, SAE set standards for automobiles world wide. SAE India and ARAI are associate bodies here for the same. These institutes did not coin the term mild hybrid and strong hybrid.

They had only two terms Series and Parallel depending on drive train, and later added plugin and Micro to them.

Yes Fame made a mistake and Maruti took wrong advantage of the same.
Note that other manufacturers who use the technology did not take or ask for any such concessions.

Some years back Chevrolet had made a start stop micro hybrid with all accessories like Ac and electric powersteering powered by second battery which was charged by regenerative brakes. It also had a low HP traction motor for curb crawling upto 8 kph with engine off even this car was not considered a Hybrid by SAE.

Rahul

[suyr]

Lame policy of the Govt. is to be blamed here rather than Maruti Suzuki. Maruti just exploited this lame policy to their (undue) advantage. Any penalty imposed on Maruti at this point of time will be unfair in my opinion.

[DReddy]

Stepping back and taking a wider perspective of the whole issue, specifically not taking any side (for or against returning the subsidies), this news is heartening - http://www.newindianexpress.com/busi...i-1774102.html

They specifically mentioned that "Technology is ahead of rules and regulations and we cannot bind it". Hence they have decided to drop making policies and focus on action plans instead. Finally a very constructive way of looking at promoting EV technology!

[reihem]

I’m reading a lot of defensive comments, some even praising MSIL for “gaming” poor policy.

This reminds of the spectrum scam - unethical, exploitative, cost the country money but in the end not illegal it turned out.

[arun_josie]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

Possibly the best and simplest way to explain the scenario.

And as such - fickle minded government policies are more to be blamed rather than Maruti Suzuki in itself. How many rule revisions have we seen and companies tend to find their way around it - one way or the other.

True, some time back we had Mahindra lowering their stone guard in XUV500 to reduce the ground clearance for lower excise.

https://www.team-bhp.com/news/mahind...e-lower-excise

[landcruiser123]

Anybody and everybody exploits legal loopholes around the world.
We Indians are probably better at it than most other people.

I think Maruti shouldn't have got any benefit as the cars were really not helping the environment.

But the issue is with the government and their myopic approach to solve problems. They should come up with proper policies and guidelines with a timeline for implementation.

[FrozeninTime]

Originally Posted by reihem

I’m reading a lot of defensive comments, some even praising MSIL for “gaming” poor policy.

This reminds of the spectrum scam - unethical, exploitative, cost the country money but in the end not illegal it turned out.

IMHO, What Maruti did was within laws. If a company is smart to exploit loopholes then why should it be punished instead Govt. minister framing the policy should be punished. Companies are there to make money. In that way all IT sector should be penalized as they don't allow Labour unions and they also exploit loophole in laws exempting from formation of labour union.
I feel lawyer should be penalised for wasting courts time. These types of cases leads to backlog of cases and common man suffer.
We have already seen how spectrum scandal case has evolved. So let us not get involved comparing it.
At the end of day if consumer benefits I dont mind corporates making little money. We already seen how Govt. benefited by easing of oil prices and consumers are paying same prices even when oil prices low yet fiscal management is poor of Govt.