Team-BHP > The Indian Car Scene


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 8th October 2019, 11:14   #121
BHPian
 
venkyhere's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: hump city
Posts: 784
Thanked: 2,196 Times
Default Re: Why does ride quality suck in so many luxury cars?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dark.knight View Post
The wavy floaty suspensions at high speeds are definitely not preferable either (I've never bought such a car for the same reason) but where is the majority of the cars with such a perfect balance of suppleness and feedback ? The last brand I drove with that perfect mix is Fiat, nothing else.
bingo. And where is that brand now ? dead.
Our indian car market prefers ultra soft suspension over city roads and doesn't care about the discomfort it creates, over long journeys on highways with the ultra soft suspension.

The general reasoning by a vast majority is :
1. city roads will be bad, I can't be slowing down for potholes, so ultra soft is must for me
2. highways ? vomitting ? some people are like that. The road only looks smooth, agree no jolts, but they have not levelled it properly - nothing wrong with ultra soft suspension
3. ghats ? body roll ? whats wrong with that ? thats why we keep windows open while going through ghats, so that anyone uncomfortable can easily vomit outside

I would rather have the 'supple' suspension offered by something like a fiat, rather than the ultra soft one offered by the likes of xylo, old-gen verna etc. Slowing down for city potholes - not a big deal to me.
venkyhere is offline   (5) Thanks
Old 8th October 2019, 11:37   #122
Distinguished - BHPian
 
dark.knight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Beans Town
Posts: 1,777
Thanked: 7,360 Times
Default Re: Why does ride quality suck in so many luxury cars?

Quote:
Originally Posted by venkyhere View Post
I would rather have the 'supple' suspension offered by something like a fiat, rather than the ultra soft one offered by the likes of xylo, old-gen verna etc. Slowing down for city potholes - not a big deal to me.
And again, coming back to my old point, this doesn't mean that soft suspensioned cars are all that bad, because the majority buy them for pure city comfort. I find rock hard everything just as ghastly, or even more than the other extreme, so to speak, given my use is also purely city, and I have zero motion sickness, I can travel on a boat in the storm all day and not flinch.

Its perhaps, opinions and debates like these that will set the motion for manufacturers to make neutral, comfortable suspension, from the 2 extremes of toy springs with fat tyres and iron rods with rubber bands.
dark.knight is offline  
Old 8th October 2019, 13:00   #123
BHPian
 
sreejinair's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Aurangabad
Posts: 449
Thanked: 385 Times
Default Re: Why does ride quality suck in so many luxury cars?

Quote:
Originally Posted by graaja View Post
The suspensions and the tire profile play a big role in ride comfort. The 17" rims with the higher profile will definitely make the ride a lot comfortable compared to the 18" wheels. A 10mm increase in profile can make a huge difference. If you get the size changed at VW with their OE 17" wheels and tires that come in Comfortline, I don't think this will void any warranty.

Before making this decision, why don't you test drive a Comfortline version of the Tiguan and see if there is any significant improvement?
Our village doesnt have the Comfortline for TD, to my surprise all the Tiguans sold till date are all Highline. When I TD the fortuner and endevour I did it on my usual route, same cant be done for the Comfortline as there arent any available.

The size change at VW is out of question, when I inquired about price for 17" wheels they couldnt find it, saying since they never sold a comfortline they couldnt find the price. Of course they should have tried using the part number, instead of searching based on the vehicles VIN number. Then I asked them the price of 18" alloys and guess what the price for 1 single unit of 18" rims cost at VW, its a whopping 75000 INR. You read it right, its 75k per 18" alloy wheel, so a set of 4 would be 3 lacks. One can guesstimate the price of four 17" VW OE alloy wheels based on that.

All I can do it play with PSI and seat cushioning (a gut feeling that its those stupid bucket seats which is aggravating my back issue) Another thing to try are tyres, but the best I can do while keeping the 18" is 235/60 R18 but that is a 3.28% change anything above 2% is usually not recommended but there is a lot of space available in the wheel well. Another tyre option without braking the 2% barrier would be 225/60 R18 and 245/55 R18

Last edited by sreejinair : 8th October 2019 at 13:03.
sreejinair is offline  
Old 13th October 2019, 22:38   #124
BHPian
 
venkyhere's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: hump city
Posts: 784
Thanked: 2,196 Times
Default Re: Why does ride quality suck in so many luxury cars?

while we are on the current hot topic of VW tiguan giving a hard life to the back of the driver, take a look at the specs of this (PICS : Tastefully Modified Cars in India) modded tiguan. Will be like frying pan to fire.
venkyhere is offline   (1) Thanks
Old 21st October 2019, 18:56   #125
BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Pune
Posts: 427
Thanked: 734 Times
Default

My bro in law owns a duster - the ki g of ride quality as per team bhp. He recently test drove a Jeep Compass, and he said the ride quality is much better than the Duster. Anyone else has experienced both?
pseudo_coder is offline  
Old 12th February 2020, 10:31   #126
BHPian
 
Harshavarthan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: TN 65
Posts: 313
Thanked: 113 Times
Default Re: Why does ride quality suck in so many luxury cars?

Coming to ride comfort, my Ford Endeavor with 1 lakh+ on the odo of late is giving me very stiff ride. I actually feel my new Hyundai Venue much comfortable and started to think of replacing my Endeavor with a new Corolla (just for the ride comfort).

Ford SA doesn't find anything wrong with the ride but I have insisted to replace all four struts and placed order for the spares.

Does worn out suspension become stiff after use? In my previous cars, the ride actually became very very soft after 80+ kms.

Is there any after marker shock absorbers which are softer than OEM's?

Last edited by Harshavarthan : 12th February 2020 at 10:33.
Harshavarthan is offline  
Old 12th February 2020, 15:23   #127
Distinguished - BHPian
 
dark.knight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Beans Town
Posts: 1,777
Thanked: 7,360 Times
Default Re: Why does ride quality suck in so many luxury cars?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harshavarthan View Post
Ford SA doesn't find anything wrong with the ride but I have insisted to replace all four struts and placed order for the spares.

Does worn out suspension become stiff after use? In my previous cars, the ride actually became very very soft after 80+ kms.

Is there any after marker shock absorbers which are softer than OEM's?
If you want to play around with car repairs that much, might as well go for a similar class vehicle with good ride, Hyundai Tucson and Honda CRV come to mind. In the D segment Corolla is a good choice for comfort as well as Elantra which is even quieter and well built, though ride is a bit hard/flat compared to Corolla.

HOWEVER, I recommend looking at simpler stuff first, how old are the tyres? What brand are they? If they are less than 40k kms, I suggest you first lower air pressure by 2/3 psi from factory recommendation, if they are above 40k kms running you can swap them out for comfort based tyres, like Continental or Michelin, the store guy can recommend, keep 2 psi pressure lower in them too.

Since you've already ordered struts, might as well get it done. Should make a slight difference but not sure how much, Fords in general have the DNA of hard/flat ride and not soft and supple ride, the Ikon, old gen Figo and Fiesta had rock hard ride too. The Endeavour should have a firmer ride since it has large GC and is expected to off road too, I wouldn't be optimistic beyond a 5% change in ride comfort with these tweaks.
dark.knight is offline  
Old 12th February 2020, 15:56   #128
BHPian
 
sreejinair's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Aurangabad
Posts: 449
Thanked: 385 Times
Default Re: Why does ride quality suck in so many luxury cars?

I just wanted to put it out there, a few months ago I compared the ride quality of Endeavor, Fortuner, Crysta, Kodiaq and Tiguan. All top-end trims on the same road, on the same day and all had under 15k on odo. Comfort-wise I found the Endeavor to be the best and the Tiguan to be the worst.

The above test was done after I bought the Tiguan, yes you read that right I did that test after I bought the Tiguan and now I cant wait to get rid of it just because of its ride quality. Don't get me wrong I LOVE everything in the Tiguan, the mileage, handling, features, "parkability", butter-smooth steering, etc. But I just can't take the harsh ride anymore, of course, the same reason might not be good enough for others, but it fits my bill because of the 2 disc bulges in my lumbar (back pain)

Planning to get a used duster or something smaller which has good ride comfort and of course to keep the kms on the Tiguan to as low as possible. Then later trade-in or sell the Tiguan for something better.
sreejinair is offline  
Old 12th February 2020, 16:04   #129
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 3,258
Thanked: 2,220 Times
Default Re: Why does ride quality suck in so many luxury cars?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sreejinair View Post
But I just can't take the harsh ride anymore, of course, the same reason might not be good enough for others, but it fits my bill because of the 2 disc bulges in my lumbar (back pain)

Planning to get a used duster or something smaller which has good ride comfort and of course to keep the kms on the Tiguan to as low as possible. Then later trade-in or sell the Tiguan for something better.
Can you try switching to a combination which has smaller rims and taller rubber. I have an i20 Elite Asta which comes with 16" 55 profile tyre. Suspension feels so harsh, I am thinking of switching a 14" with 70 profile tyre before finally getting rid of it and go for a car which has softer ride.
Considering the money you would loose in selling the car prematurely, you can even import a set of shocks/springs which provides softer ride (but it would loose on the handling part then)

Last edited by Guna : 12th February 2020 at 16:06.
Guna is offline  
Old 12th February 2020, 16:39   #130
BHPian
 
sreejinair's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Aurangabad
Posts: 449
Thanked: 385 Times
Default Re: Why does ride quality suck in so many luxury cars?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guna View Post
Can you try switching to a combination which has smaller rims and taller rubber. I have an i20 Elite Asta which comes with 16" 55 profile tyre. Suspension feels so harsh, I am thinking of switching a 14" with 70 profile tyre before finally getting rid of it and go for a car which has softer ride.
Considering the money you would loose in selling the car prematurely, you can even import a set of shocks/springs which provides softer ride (but it would loose on the handling part then)
Quote:
Originally Posted by graaja View Post
Before selling the Tiguan and/or getting a used duster which can be a substantial financial burden, why don't you try options like downsizing the wheels and/or get softer springs etc? That way you can solve the stiff ride and at the same time enjoy all the advantages the Tiguan offers.

I have the Tiguan Highline which has the 18" rims, I drove all the way to Mumbai in December just to test drive the Tiguan Comfortline which has the 17" rims. I made sure the psi on the TD vehicle was the same as mine i.e. 32psi and found out the difference wasn't enough for me to switch to 17" rims.

The option of coilovers or any other setup will void the suspension warranty and I don't want that especially when I'm considering to sell it. Few of my friends recommended to throw away the Hankook and to get something like Michelin, but neither Michelin nor Continental has the 235/55 R18 profile. The only tyre brands that have that profile is Hankook, Pirelli and MRF (Markus on Kodiaq). The tyres that are provided in India by Hankook and Pirelli for the Tiguan (235/55 R18) are performance-oriented tyres and the comfort rating is very low on both of them. Wonder why VW opted for those specially in India.

We don't have good roads in our city either and obviously that's a major factor here. We play the "find the tarmac" game everyday. To be honest, it's more like find the tarmac that doesn't have a pothole game

Few things that have helped so far are, keeping the psi around 29/30 and driving slow.

Last edited by sreejinair : 12th February 2020 at 16:46.
sreejinair is offline   (2) Thanks
Old 12th February 2020, 16:40   #131
Distinguished - BHPian
 
graaja's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Coimbatore
Posts: 2,066
Thanked: 8,561 Times
Default Re: Why does ride quality suck in so many luxury cars?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sreejinair View Post
Planning to get a used duster or something smaller which has good ride comfort and of course to keep the kms on the Tiguan to as low as possible. Then later trade-in or sell the Tiguan for something better.
Before selling the Tiguan and/or getting a used duster which can be a substantial financial burden, why don't you try options like downsizing the wheels and/or get softer springs etc? That way you can solve the stiff ride and at the same time enjoy all the advantages the Tiguan offers.
graaja is offline  
Old 12th February 2020, 22:15   #132
BHPian
 
Harshavarthan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: TN 65
Posts: 313
Thanked: 113 Times
Default Re: Why does ride quality suck in so many luxury cars?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dark.knight View Post
HOWEVER, I recommend looking at simpler stuff first, how old are the tyres? What brand are they? If they are less than 40k kms, I suggest you first lower air pressure by 2/3 psi from factory recommendation, if they are above 40k kms running you can swap them out for comfort based tyres, like Continental or Michelin, the store guy can recommend, keep 2 psi pressure lower in them too.

Since you've already ordered struts, might as well get it done. Should make a slight difference but not sure how much, Fords in general have the DNA of hard/flat ride and not soft and supple ride, the Ikon, old gen Figo and Fiesta had rock hard ride too. The Endeavour should have a firmer ride since it has large GC and is expected to off road too, I wouldn't be optimistic beyond a 5% change in ride comfort with these tweaks.
My Endy runs on Geolanders ATS G015 with 29 psi of cold air pressure. Actually I remember the ride quality was much better in initial days. It's so bad only in the last couple of months that too after 1 lakh kms.

My doubt is will the shocks become stiff with age and use? And is there any after market shocks which is actually more comfortable than OEM? Most aftermarket shocks as per my knowledge are only performance oriented or in other words much stiffer ones.
Harshavarthan is offline  
Old 13th February 2020, 07:27   #133
Distinguished - BHPian
 
dark.knight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Beans Town
Posts: 1,777
Thanked: 7,360 Times
Default Re: Why does ride quality suck in so many luxury cars?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harshavarthan View Post
My doubt is will the shocks become stiff with age and use? And is there any after market shocks which is actually more comfortable than OEM? Most aftermarket shocks as per my knowledge are only performance oriented or in other words much stiffer ones.
How old are the Geolandars? If more than 50k or 5+ years of age they tend to harden up and give a relatively harsh ride.

As regarding shock-absorbers, yes most aftermarket ones tend to be on the sportier side with the only choices being hard-harder-hardest. Generally, as far as I know, shocks tend to be a bit loose with age and not offer much dip and rise corrections since they lose oil viscosity and spring tension, but yes as a result they may also sink and give a feeling or hardness since they offer literally no absorption, you may want to get them all checked up at an independent suspension specialist, most authorized stations will approve the change, even if not necessary.
dark.knight is offline   (1) Thanks
Old 8th January 2021, 00:56   #134
BHPian
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 112
Thanked: 29 Times
Default Ride Quality

Why are all the new cars offering stiff ride quality? What happened to plush riding cars? With even the new Duster going with a stiffer suspension and Hexa canned, is there any car below 20L with decent ride quality?

Last edited by Aditya : 8th January 2021 at 04:42. Reason: Punctuation added
msmatic is offline  
Old 8th January 2021, 01:48   #135
anb
BHPian
 
anb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Idukki
Posts: 490
Thanked: 1,221 Times
Default Re: Ride Quality

New Honda has good ride quality. Itís suspension is tuned for comfort and offer better ride quality than previous Honda City
anb is offline  
Reply

Most Viewed
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks