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Old 10th March 2018, 11:12   #1
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Hybrids - A transition phase to EVs in India

With the government showing a relaxation in the introduction of EV and has dictated no policy is needed the government seems to be realigning its road map for electric vehicles closer to what the automobile industry had envisioned.

There will be a phase where Hybrid cars will be in demand before the mass market EV's are acceptable following the infrastructure and system to support it.

Full blown hybrid cars coming to India in the near future - Honda and Maruti to lead the way in the mass market segment. Others to follow.

The change is being driven by the impending 2022 CAFE norms.

Implementation plans targeted for 2020- 2022.

Prices could be in line with diesel versions

Quote:
While today’s adjusted-for-kerb-weight Corporate Average Fuel Efficiency (or Consumption in India) figure of 138g of CO2 per kilometre (for the fleet) isn’t too stringent, the upcoming limit of 113g per kilometer, to be introduced in 2022, will be extremely difficult to meet, especially for petrol cars. In simple terms, this is because CO2 output is directly proportional to fuel economy. So, while fuel-efficient diesels will have a tough time with emission norms but will meet CO2 norms more easily, less efficient petrol cars will be in a bind. And then there’s the fact that petrols are generally lighter: remember the weight-adjusted bit. This is why come 2022, carmakers who already are familiar with hybrid tech will try and shift to petrol-electric as soon as possible
Maruti Suzuki is likely the first to bring its Hybrid cars in the mainstream segments.

Hybrids - A transition phase to EVs in India-1_578_872_0_100_http___cdni_autocarindia_com_extraimages_20180309041435_suzukiswifthybrid.jpg


Quote:
while a similarly specified Swift petrol delivers 22.6kpl in Japan’s JC08 test cycle, the Swift hybrid that gets a strong 10kW electric boost from its 100V system delivers 32kpl.
Quote:
A Swift hybrid, assuming all components are localised (which they may not be initially), will not cost more than a diesel version of the same model. And what is likely to help is that Maruti will source the battery pack from the Suzuki-Denso-Toshiba consortium that will start producing lithium-ion batteries here by 2020.
Quote:
We are unlikely to get Suzuki’s Dualjet engine here and the boost is likely to be in the region of 8kW as against 10. But the ramp-up in efficiency could actually be the same; which, in effect, works out to a real-world figure of around 19kpl und

Honda is the other company looking at locally assembling hybrids here,especially after the 2022 CAFE regulations hit.


Hybrids - A transition phase to EVs in India-1_578_872_0_100_http___cdni_autocarindia_com_extraimages_20180309041440_hondaaccord20181600f9.jpg

Quote:
The carmaker already has a City Hybrid that is sold in Malaysia. But the big news is that it is unlikely to go with this 110hp engine that gets a 22kW electric boost. What Honda is looking to do is skip an entire generation and go straight to its new and frankly amazing range extender-like hybrid system seen on the Accord. Known as Intelligent Multi-Mode Drive (i-MMD), the car works either as an electric car in Hybrid Drive Operation (HDO), with the petrol engine charging the battery and the e-motors powering the wheels, or in Engine Drive Operation (EDO), where drive from the engine is sent to the wheels directly, but via a single gear equivalent to fourth, for reduced transmission losses. For the record, the Accord Hybrid delivers a real-world figure of 17.4kpl
Come 2022, fuel-efficiency figures are set to zoom and it is imperative each manufacturer will have to meet the norms driven by the impending CAFE norms.


International markets too are hit with meeting the CAFE norms due to the diminishing sale of diesels. German manufacturers like VW, BMW and Mercedes predict the return of diesels and this ban on diesels is a temporary phase.


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Last edited by volkman10 : 10th March 2018 at 11:24.
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Old 10th March 2018, 14:37   #2
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re: Hybrids - A transition phase to EVs in India

Dark times for us enthusiasts!
Reading this only gives me more reasons to retain my existing cars, as I would never want to see myself driving a hybrid/EV tin boxes with wheels.
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Old 11th March 2018, 10:34   #3
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re: Hybrids - A transition phase to EVs in India

A shift in tone - EV and HYbrids are being promoted together.

Quote:
Electric and hybrid electric vehicles will drive the automobile industry in the coming years. The government had already unveiled the National Electric Mobility Mission Plan and set a target of 6-7 million units of electric and hybrid electric vehicles by 2020
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Old 20th March 2018, 14:11   #4
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Re: Hybrids - A transition phase to EVs in India

Can anyone explain what are the key difference between these proposed hybrid vehicles and what we have now on Maruti cars - SHVS (or mild hybrid as they call it)?
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Old 20th March 2018, 14:15   #5
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Re: Hybrids - A transition phase to EVs in India

Would jump and sell my diesels for petrol hybrids. Efficiency wise, torque wise (if implemented well) and saving the environment and public health would be priority personally.
EVs can happen in parallel until we can have the infrastructure to support them. But then can the govt make them cheaper than diesels to kick start the adoption ?

With electric only range in few tens of kilometres it could help people commuting to office work adopt them easily.

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Old 20th March 2018, 20:14   #6
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Re: Hybrids - A transition phase to EVs in India

Quote:
Originally Posted by pathik View Post
Can anyone explain what are the key difference between these proposed hybrid vehicles and what we have now on Maruti cars - SHVS (or mild hybrid as they call it)?
SHVS is a fancier name for the automatic start-stop tech seen on some earlier cars. Basically, the engine cuts out when you are waiting at a red light.

In a proper Hybrid, there are multiple versions

1. The original prius. This is where there is a small battery and the battery is charger when braking. This small battery and an electric motor is used to propel the wheels forward. Major power being provided by the fossil fuel motor. In an electric-only mode, this can travel about 4-5 kms at top speeds of about 25-40 km/h ish. This is the first gen prius.

2. The Plug-in hybrids. These are the ones where there is a large battery that can be charged via a household socket. The all-electric range is about 100 kms or thereabouts and top speeds in electric-only mode is good for highway usage. The fossil fuel is supplemented and can feed the power the wheels and can also propel the car in all gears. The Prius plug-in hybrids are in this category. Amazing fuel efficiency, and also will not leave you stranded in the side of the road like all-electric vehicles.

3. The fossil-fuel to charge battery cars, like the chevy volt are cars that use the fossil fuel motor to charge the battery which in turns powers the wheels. These cars may or may not use the fossil fuel to propel the car forwards, in which case they may use a very tall 4th or 5th gear for use on highways.
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Old 20th March 2018, 20:42   #7
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Re: Hybrids - A transition phase to EVs in India

Quote:
Originally Posted by pathik View Post
Can anyone explain what are the key difference between these proposed hybrid vehicles and what we have now on Maruti cars - SHVS (or mild hybrid as they call it)?
Hybrids systems can be categorized to three different types:
A)Series Hybrid System
B)Parallel Hybrid System
C)Series-parallel Hybrid system(LHD)

We Lexus, run the same Hybrid Technology developed by TMC(Toyota Motor Corporation) and found under the Toyota Prius. Modification's for Lexus include, Smarter/Heavier range battery blocks, with removable cells in case they are worn(7.5 yrs).

Please find 2 attachments from the training room,in the simplest way.
PS:Uploads happened the other way round.Apologies for the same.
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Hybrids - A transition phase to EVs in India-img_0993.jpg  

Hybrids - A transition phase to EVs in India-img_0994.jpg  

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Old 21st March 2018, 10:03   #8
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Re: Hybrids - A transition phase to EVs in India

For starters, the nonsensical 43% GST (or is it 53%) on hybrid vehicles needs to stop. No manufacturer would even bother introducing a model till that's done away with.

Secondly, I don't think the prices would be inline with diesel vehicles. Or the hidden agenda is to hike diesel vehicle prices inline with hybrid prices

Let's see what happens in 'knee jerk' country (grabs pop corn)
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Old 27th March 2018, 08:50   #9
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Re: Hybrids - A transition phase to EVs in India

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Originally Posted by narayans80 View Post
For starters, the nonsensical 43% GST (or is it 53%) on hybrid vehicles needs to stop. No manufacturer would even bother introducing a model till that's done away with.
Flawed govt. policy puts off most manufacturers from the Hybrid path.

Maruti Suzuki defers its hybrid vehicle launch.

Quote:
Higher taxation on hybrid vehicles post goods and services tax (GST) is turning out to be a cause of concern for car makers. So much so, that Maruti Suzuki India is now deferring its plans to launch its first fully hybrid vehicle.
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Old 28th March 2018, 16:16   #10
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Re: Hybrids - A transition phase to EVs in India

Deferring its plans in India, Suzuki launches the Hybrid Swift in Europe, enters the top 10 Hybrid cars sold in EU. Toyota dominates the list.

Hybrids - A transition phase to EVs in India-dzxhrnxuaidxqj.jpg

Last edited by volkman10 : 28th March 2018 at 16:17.
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Old 10th October 2018, 09:24   #11
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Re: Hybrids - A transition phase to EVs in India

Automakers look at more practical way for India - will go Hybrid now.

Honda plans to drive in affordable hybrid model in India in the next 3 yrs.

Quote:
Terming hybrid technology as a practical bridge towards introducing EVs in the country, the company completely agrees with the notion of bringing in environment friendly vehicles to the country.

https://auto.economictimes.indiatime...3-yrs/66143212

Last edited by volkman10 : 10th October 2018 at 09:25.
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Old 9th December 2018, 15:09   #12
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Re: Hybrids - A transition phase to EVs in India

Tata Motors is against Hybrids, does not seek a transition step of hybrids to fully electric vehicles - but do they really believe India is ready for pure EV's?

Heads of several companies, however, agree that India will need the bridge of hybrids for its move to fully electric mobility in the long run.

Quote:
Incentivising hybrids is like taking three steps backwards, says Tata Motors MD
Quote:
Toyota and Suzuki are laying a strong focus on hybrids as part of their future product portfolio
Link

Last edited by volkman10 : 9th December 2018 at 15:12.
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Old 19th December 2018, 20:01   #13
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Re: Hybrids - A transition phase to EVs in India

To make Hybrids popular, you need a leader to pave the way for popularizing it. It is where now Maruti Suzuki steps in.

Post 2020 most of Maruti Suzuki cars will have a 'strong' Hybrid variant, but benefits of efficiency will come at a price.

Quote:
The carmaker is said to be working closely with Bosch for its electrification strategy and will seek to localise a high percentage of its components. With years of experience in India, Bosch could be capable of offering a localisation strategy tailored to suit the Indian carmaker's needs.
Quote:
Interestingly, the gains in fuel economy from a hybrid are about 30 percent and for a diesel, they are about 25 percent. So hybrids are definitely a better solution in terms of fuel efficiency and even meeting the Corporate Average Fuel Efficiency (CAFE) norms, but the high costs could be a challenge for Maruti.

hybrid is going to cost money because you’ve got to put in a motor, electronics and a strong hybrid means the battery pack will have to be bigger. So there's a high cost involved, a petrol-hybrid will cost even more than a BS-VI-compliant diesel
Source:

Last edited by volkman10 : 19th December 2018 at 20:02.
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Old 20th December 2018, 00:32   #14
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Re: Hybrids - A transition phase to EVs in India

With short driving distances in ultra dense traffic conditions, Electric vehicles are ideally suited to our over-polluted Indian metros (not the case in the West, where range depletion is a challenge).

And yet, where are they?

The answer will highlight why, without imposed regulation, India will remain on fossil fuels for the next decade.
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Old 20th December 2018, 10:30   #15
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Re: Hybrids - A transition phase to EVs in India

Policy change charges up Maruti Suzuki’s hybrid car plans.

Maruti Suzuki Ciaz hybrid - Suzuki is likely to collaborate with Toyota for the first full hybrid car that Maruti Suzuki will launch in India.

Quote:
Maruti Suzuki is working on parts localization for hybrid cars while it prepares for the opening of the lithium ion battery plant in Gujarat being built by the Suzuki-Toyota alliance
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Last edited by volkman10 : 20th December 2018 at 10:32.
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