[AKTRACK]

Originally Posted by i74js

Tata was desperately looking for a turnaround strategy and a bread winner entry level car.

They can still build something to slot before the Tiago. I think there a is market there. Yes, crash worthiness is going to be a problem though.

What I shudder to think is how many people are going to be devoid of cars if the crash test norms are seriously implemented. Cars will become out of reach for many, specifically the first time entry level car buyers and they will have to wait more for a car or settle with scooters or a bike.

[kbishwa]

My sincere queries to esteemed BHPians:

1. Why & how Fiat is still operating in India (just for a JV)?
2. Should Ford continue with Figo (when there is Freestyle), just because once it was the Coty?
3. Does Honda still feel optimistic about Brio? Is BRV not an example of good car with bad packaging and pricing (month after month you discount, why not the price is reduced to the market determined levels the way S Cross did?)
4. Creta you just wait for the Harrier, you will be at least halved. And Tuscon will go into oblivion. How many support me?
5. And compass you too..by the Harrier..ek teer se kai shikar?? Kya bolte?
6. Well, M&M will keep making Verito until a new car in this segment replaces it? But who are those still buying it anyway?
8. Maruti dominance is due to:
a. Reach (how many dealerships when compared to Hyundai, Tata, M&M and Honda?)
b. Number of unique offerings? (and not having that compared to competition, there are many)?
c. The myth of having value for money "products & after sales services"?
So, which promising manufacturer can dislodge MS? Or should a combine can come to aim that (even for a short term)? You see..the S-cross things can happen to other cars from MS stable also!
9. Nissan & Renault should not consider to bring second rung cars to India (and contemporary models to other countries). And Duster, even after Kwid, have you not understood that in India looks sell and bad-lookers get punished (Lodgy, and Duster later)?
10. Skoda seems to have decided to sell only high margin cars and that with very huge margin (with very unreasonable after sales), remember you are not a Luxury brand. Don't you see, sooner or later good competitive products in the segments they operate would do the Fabia way to Skoda's offerings?
11. Tata, kudos to attaining 3rd spot twice in 3 consecutive months. Still should they not stop selling Bolt, Nano and re-position Sumo & Safari? What would be the fate of Hexa after Harrier and the new 7-seater (even a refresh with better AVN and flat boot would not reduce Hexa's huge footprint for urban drive and weight (which though helps better ride))?
12. Would Toyota continue to rule only due to support from commercial buys (and what are the numbers, can it be reported in monthly sales figures?)
13. V(F)olkswagen cars are real fun to drive and feel solid (like sister Sokda), but can't they compete with others(looks they don't want to, even before they lost their face in the USA!)?
14.How do the entries of new manufactures from S Korea. China etc. would change the landscape?
15. How would the new emission/efficiency rules would impact the existing line-up? How many of the existing cars would be in history books?
16. Is there any disruptive innovation waiting (in addition to EVs, public transport/OLA, UBER etc) to reduce the high petroleum bills?

[raj_5004]

Originally Posted by Sheel

A different perspective, but I find the new TUV to be better than the Bolero in all aspects. The engine is a proven one and have seen TUV's [with 80 PS power] done anything between 50 - 100K on odo without much issues. Its infinite times better than the Bolero as far as comfort goes.

The only variant which makes sense in Bolero is the leaf spring one, the EX variant. Abuse it as much as you can.

Strictly for use in a construction site, I think a Bolero is a better buy for the below reasons -

Ruggedness - Less things to go bad or break in a Bolero as compared to the TUV.

People carrying ability - 7 people can sit easily (comparatively) in a Bolero as compared to the compact TUV.

Price of spares - Much cheaper in the Bolero as compared to the new gen TUV.

Resale value - 70~80K run Boleros are in high demand in the used car market and fetch good value.

Boot space - Can haul anything from people to cans to drums. TUV's boot is tiny in comparison.

Comfort is not the top priority here as roads are non-existent anyways. Reliability, durability and economy is.

As a personal car, the TUV of course is a more capable vehicle.

You are right about the Bolero EX and that would have been an ideal choice for us, but it lacks power steering and A/C.

[drbones]

Not a single gypsy dispatched from the factory in the month of august? (Tata motors delivering safaris to indian military) Is this the end of gypsy production?
Can some one throw a little light on this?

[EcoFox0718]

Originally Posted by kbishwa

My sincere queries to esteemed BHPians:


4. Creta you just wait for the Harrier, you will be at least halved. And Tuscon will go into oblivion. How many support me?

I am not too sure about this one. Amongst its current competitor, the Creta is already not the best buy in terms of price-benefit and features. It is a roomy 5-seater SUV with features less than or equal to sub-4m offerings, but actual length more than 4m which makes it much, much more pricier than the cars it shares equivalent features with. Nor did I find its design or ride quality to be disruptively amazing (or at least worth the price difference)

Despite that, Creta is being picked up in huge numbers. Which means people are looking at something other than the on-paper capabilities of the car vis-a-vis its competition. Not sure what it is, but there is a strong secret ingredient which is bolstering these numbers and it goes beyond the simple evaluation of value-for-money in terms of features and ride quality.

Meanwhile Tata has its own unique challenges. They are still fighting hard (and winning, no doubt) to address perceptual issues of bad build quality, etc. Their newer range of cars, while successful, are definitely not close to beating category leaders - that's going to take time. The Nexon, for example, offers virtually everything in the Sub-4m SUV category that any customer can wish for, at a highly competitive price tag, but it is still almost neck-to-neck with the Ecosport which is a good lakh or two costlier on-road.

So, while Harrier may make a dent on Creta's Sales, halving Creta's numbers seems to be a really tough challenge.

[chittybang]

I agree. The Creta sells more because of some x factor that Hyundai has cracked. Maybe it's the size coupled with Hyundai brand value. I suspect it's the traditional SUV sillhoutte. A style factor that Indians have liked. The brezza too has it. The compass has it . The harrier also has it and that's why it will sell.

[nainan]

Originally Posted by chittybang

I agree. The Creta sells more because of some x factor that Hyundai has cracked. Maybe it's the size coupled with Hyundai brand value. I suspect it's the traditional SUV sillhoutte. A style factor that Indians have liked. The brezza too has it. The compass has it . The harrier also has it and that's why it will sell.

Brand perception + VFM + segment is the key in our market. The x factor is clearly VFM evaluated against the brand and the segment. There is a soft pricing barrier at 20 lakhs which needs an enormous amount of brand perception to breach so only a brand like Toyota sells. I also think we look at 5 seaters to be costing less than 15 lakhs. Any 5 seaters which have a majority of variants north of this find the Indian market difficult. Among 7 seaters I believe the ceiling is 20 lakhs with the Fortuner and Innova selling only due to the brand. However the Etios did not sell well as Brand perception for them in the A & B segment was non existent while Hyundai and Suzuki rule the roost here. I think the service network and spares cost also has a huge role to play.

Given the above for the Harrier to eat into Creta sales at that magnitude it will need to be priced right factoring in not just VFM but also the brand perception vs Hyundai. The Nexon is priced almost correctly and hence its eating into the Ecosport sales however I feel the Hornbill at an even lower pricing is what can be a Brezza competitor.

[shortbread]

Originally Posted by nainan

Given the above for the Harrier to eat into Creta sales at that magnitude it will need to be priced right factoring in not just VFM but also the brand perception vs Hyundai. The Nexon is priced almost correctly and hence its eating into the Ecosport sales however I feel the Hornbill at an even lower pricing is what can be a Brezza competitor.

Disagree, why would someone compare a Hyundai Tuscon sized, 2 litre powered SUV with a Creta?! With all due respect, This might be a personal assumption or affordability barrier, but cannot be a blanket analysis on the market.

Tata has to build an excellent product to succeed and the VFM must equate to better engineered than the competition, rather than lower priced!

Tata cannot make the Harrier cheaper than a Creta, as a consumer I understand how people might procrastinate about the same but it will not happen. Engineering price conscious products in order to undercut rivals is what got Tata into this mess in the first place. The equation of 'Vehicle size' vis a vis 'Number of seats' vis a vis 'Lower price' will not help Tata anymore. 'More car per car' was successful 2 decades ago, it's time has past.

It needs better designed and better performing products that entice customers into buying a Tata car. People do not buy a Nexon simply because it is cheap, but because they like the design and how it stands out from run of the mill clones that are available from competitors. Plus the additional features including better safety. That is where the value lies and that is how Tata will find success in the future.

If Creta buyers still want 'more car per car' from Tata, then buy a Storme! If they want a 'better car' from Tata then be ready to shell out more for a Harrier.

[aniketi]

Toyota has clearly failed to attract customers for Yaris. Sales numbers are horrible for the category in which it sells. It's not even 6 months and its down to 1 K units. Clearly Indians have rejected it and can be declared as a flop. Hope Toyota will learn a lesson or two from this and will not take people here for granted.

Top 3 manufacturer's account for 75% of the total market, not ideal scenario actually. Irony is none of the global leaders like Toyota, Honda, Ford, VW etc. are not part of top 3. This figures shows that there is lot of market share available to grab for Indian companies like Tata and Mahindra. Hope they will do better in coming years.

[nainan]

Firstly I do not intend this to be a rebuttal but just a bit more of detailing

Originally Posted by shortbread

Disagree, why would someone compare a Hyundai Tuscon sized, 2 litre powered SUV with a Creta?! With all due respect, This might be a personal assumption or affordability barrier, but cannot be a blanket analysis on the market.

The Tucson and the Compass together sell around 2500 units while the Creta does a 10000. Hence the Creta side of the market is definitely where the volumes are and even Tata does not market the Nexon as a Creta competitor so the Harrier is the only SUV in the lineup to tap this market. Also considering the aspects of power and torque the reported tuning of the 2.0 L engine on the Harrier is also closer to the Creta.

Tata has to build an excellent product to succeed and the VFM must equate to better engineered than the competition, rather than lower priced!

Agree with the first part however my take on the next part is not lower priced but more priced at par factoring Hyundai's brand value as I feel the Creta is overpriced and I have heard an echo of these sentiments on this very forum. Take the Tiago which is Tatas most successful car and its VFM while judiciously priced.

Engineering price conscious products in order to undercut rivals is what got Tata into this mess in the first place. The equation of 'Vehicle size' vis a vis 'Number of seats' vis a vis 'Lower price' will not help Tata anymore. 'More car per car' was successful 2 decades ago, it's time has past.

Tata got into this mess due to:-
1. Tata after sales service was downright atrocious (I have personal experience).
2. Dated looks and engineering that did not keep up with the times(Indica derivatives and Safari Storme)
3. The better engineered products were hampered by pricing(The Aria was a very well built product however pricing was definitely to blame. Tata has never repeated that mistake till date)

People do not buy a Nexon simply because it is cheap, but because they like the design and how it stands out from run of the mill clones that are available from competitors. Plus the additional features including better safety. That is where the value lies and that is how Tata will find success in the future.

More people buy the not so well engineered Brezza at the same price variant by variant than a Nexon. So clearly Tata is not finding enough success here even now. However the Nexon's engineering edge at the same price point is what negates its brand perception disadvantage to some extent.

If Creta buyers still want 'more car per car' from Tata, then buy a Storme! If they want a 'better car' from Tata then be ready to shell out more for a Harrier

Creta buyers will continue buying more Creta until they get a comprehensive package which includes brand, engineering, aftersales service and VFM. If well engineered and designed products were the only criteria we would have seen the Fiats succeed from the word go.

Lastly the Harrier/H7X is Tata's "Bajaj Pulsar" opportunity to redefine the performance SUV segment in India and to their credit they seem to be building up to it.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by nainan

Hence the Creta side of the market is definitely where the volumes are and even Tata does not market the Nexon as a Creta competitor so the Harrier is the only SUV in the lineup to tap this market.

Similar arguments were there before the Compass came out. Tucson was doing 300 units, whereas Creta was doing 8k units - so people expected Compass to be priced competitive to Creta.

But IMO - sales is not limited to segments, but of the perceived value that people see in these cars. If people feels Harrier offers more bang for their buck, it will sell despite what the competition is doing.

My personal expectation is for the Harrier to be priced right in between the Creta and Compass. Anything lesser than that will be a big advantage for it.

[tsk1979]

I find it truly amazing that the top 6 cars in the list are from one Manufacturer - Maruti. About 3-4 years back, it looked as if Maruti was coming close to losing its throne, with competitors like Hyundai threatening to take away the lucrative "Not a bike with 4 wheels" hatch market, but now, right from 3L-7L, Maruti is King

[Arjun Reddy]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

My personal expectation is for the Harrier to be priced right in between the Creta and Compass. Anything lesser than that will be a big advantage for it.

Could not agree more. Tata has to price the product right as undercutting has always failed for Tata.

Tata, honestly suffers from an image and desirability issue. A lot of friends and family loved the Hexa, ultimately the cheque was not cut out as it was a TATA. Most of the business here went to Toyota at almost 7-10 lakhs more. Times are changing for Tata, with the Tiago ,Nexon and Hexa.

Tata has been on the way up in terms of design and engineering.The sales team and the ASS also need to be revamped.

Tata failed to capitalise way back, on the Safari and Sierra. They were considered premium in our college days.

I feel that they need an image makeover. Something like a NEXA or even another brand for their premium products.

Maruti also struggles with the same problem. Anything above 18 lakhs and the Maruti would struggle. They are making the right noises with NEXA.

[volkman10]

Hyundai beats Ford to become largest PV exporter in April-August 2018.

Hyundai Motor exports cars and SUVs to 88 countries across Africa, the Middle East, Latin America, Australia and the Asia Pacific from India.
Among India-made models, there is strong demand for the Grand i10 and i20 in Africa and Latin America, while the mid-size Verna sedan is extremely popular in the Middle East.

Renault, Mahindra & Mahindra and Honda Motors were the automakers apart from Hyundai that posted higher exports from India in the same period, while Nissan Motor, Volkswagen and Suzuki Motor all posted a decline in exports in the first five months of this fiscal year.

Link

[jpcoolguy]

Revenue calculation for this month (August 2018) sales have been completed and posted here (Revenue calculation of cars sold in India - How many $$$ each model brings to its maker).

Top 25 Cars based on Revenue:




OEM Revenue Market Share: