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Old 28th March 2019, 15:12   #91
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Default re: The Maruti Ciaz & Ertiga 1.5L Diesel

Its a sham 1.3 to 1.5L with only 5PS power up. Its just an eye wash.
Maruti is good at it (eye washing) e.g: Mild Hybrid sold as Hybrid & getting FAME incentives until our Govt. realized they were being fooled

IMHO I feel with the falling diesel sales, the 1.5 comes at a bad time.
Not sure if MSIL will be able to recover the cost in developing this engine.
Japs are not known for making good diesel engines (with small displacement).

Also one thing that struck my mind was why was the 1.5L launched without any fanfare ???
Soft Launch = Less confident MSIL with the new diesel engine (just my own opinion)
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Old 28th March 2019, 15:52   #92
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Default re: The Maruti Ciaz & Ertiga 1.5L Diesel

Soft launch for a really important engine for Maruti?? Seems like Maruti does not have total faith in it yet.
I am not a big fan of the numbers and it shows it's clearly tuned for mileage ( maruti = "kitna deti hai")
Don't think it will impact other competitors unless Maruti markets it aggressively.
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Old 28th March 2019, 15:57   #93
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Default re: The Maruti Ciaz & Ertiga 1.5L Diesel

^^^

I don't think its an eyewash, the driveability of 1.3 Multijet has always been a complaint, so I am hoping the 1.5 is more tractable. Lets wait for a review
The 1.3 was not going to be BS6 compliant, so it makes sense to have a diesel engine which is compliant.

I think Maruti has realized that diesels are not going to sell much as private cars, but might be a hit with commercial market (Hotels/ Luxury cabs etc), hence the soft launch ?
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Old 28th March 2019, 18:44   #94
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Default re: The Maruti Ciaz & Ertiga 1.5L Diesel

Looking at the specs, I feel it's gonna be a good tractable engine. The power peaks at 4000rpm which usually implies a usable top end and flat torque that starts early meaning it should be usable in stop start traffic. 1.5l has kind of become the bog standard for diesels even globally. This engine is mated to a 6 speeder which again is a great decision; should be a great for long haul cruising. I'm keen on its NVH given the aluminium construction.

People who comment on Japanese not good with small diesels have missed out Honda's awesome 1.6 and 1.5. Toyota never believed in building a small diesel so went with a PSA for its 1.4. Their philosophy is more slanted towards petrol and hybrid. Suzuki underestimated the demand for diesel engines initially and went with Fiat.

I think this engine has serious potential. The specs may appear moderate but given the driving scenario in this country, it's more than enough IMHO.
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Old 29th March 2019, 01:28   #95
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Default re: The Maruti Ciaz & Ertiga 1.5L Diesel

A video about the Engine:



Quote:
Originally Posted by AYP View Post
Does the 1.5 diesel come with the coloured MID like its petrol counterpart? If yes, another reason to avoid the 1.3 DDIS.
Yes the 1.5 Diesel Ciaz comes with same coloured MID like the Petrol version. What's also interesting is that the GVW of both the 1.3 and 1.5 Diesels are identical. Brochure :
Attached Files
File Type: pdf ciaz_brochure (1).pdf (3.98 MB, 246 views)
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Old 29th March 2019, 07:18   #96
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Default re: The Maruti Ciaz & Ertiga 1.5L Diesel

Quote:
Originally Posted by turbowhistle View Post
Soft launch for a really important engine for Maruti?? Seems like Maruti does not have total faith in it yet.
I am not a big fan of the numbers and it shows it's clearly tuned for mileage ( maruti = "kitna deti hai")
Don't think it will impact other competitors unless Maruti markets it aggressively.
Suzuki has no plans to market this engine aggressively. I guess it is just a volume spinner till BSVI. They were working on it since before the sudden BSVI jump was announced. An engine takes time to mature.

With BSVI, Suzuki has no plans to focus on Diesel engines anymore. The Math is simple. Upcoming CAFE norms require year on year FE improvement from where a maker stands today. Hybrids and EV are the solutions to it, Diesel isn't. So alI focus of Suzuki and Japanese makers lie in the Hybrid and EV direction. With the Toyota announcement yesterday of Toyota Hybrid system tech sharing, the things add up.

I heard a rumour that Suzuki might not make any Diesel engines post BSVI. But now with this launch, it seems they may keep a token presence although I am not sure of a BSVI compliant version of this engine.
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Old 29th March 2019, 08:22   #97
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Default re: The Maruti Ciaz & Ertiga 1.5L Diesel

Maruti may be playing a safe game with modest power and torque figures. Once they understand the performance and reliability in real world conditions, they can release retuned version of this engine with higher figures.
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Old 29th March 2019, 09:49   #98
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Default re: The Maruti Ciaz & Ertiga 1.5L Diesel

The launch of this engine is almost 8-10 months delayed due to various problems Maruti faced during development. From this soft launch I see it as them playing on the safer side.

Additionally it looks like Maruti isn't going to have a diesel portfolio post April 2020, so this engine is going to have a very short life span.

Can't wait for some test drive reports of this engine, although I am not expecting much.

Last edited by fiat_tarun : 29th March 2019 at 09:52.
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Old 29th March 2019, 10:40   #99
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Default re: The Maruti Ciaz & Ertiga 1.5L Diesel

Very soft launch for such an important engine. Makes me think that Maruti isn't confident of how it will fare in the market. Why isn't any one giving a true automatic (not the AMT's) option on diesel engines, except Hyundai? One has to be wary of this soft launch and not book the product straight away, but wait to see the reviews and how it fares in the long term. The power deficit isn't a problem, if you want more you can always remap it.
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Old 29th March 2019, 10:44   #100
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Default re: The Maruti Ciaz & Ertiga 1.5L Diesel

I feel that this engine is here to stay and will become the mainstream Maruti diesel once BS6 kicks in. While there is no doubt that the demand for diesels will diminish in the future, more so for Maruti products IMO, there is no doubt that diesels will continue to exist post BS6 and will still appeal to a significant proportion of our population. Even if let's say the figure drops down to 5-10% of total Maruti sales, it would still translate to healthy sales and good margins as the cars equipped with this engine would cost more than a million bucks.

This engine will continue to do duty in the S-Cross, Ertiga and the Ciaz post BS6, with the Brezza also getting it. Baleno and the Dzire have a very slim chance though. And hopefully, the same engine with a higher state of tune(though I won't be surprised if they stick to the same tune) will do duty in the upcoming Maruti Corolla and the bigger Vitara(if they ever launch it).
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Old 29th March 2019, 12:25   #101
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Default re: The Maruti Ciaz & Ertiga 1.5L Diesel

Even the Delta Diesel Variant seems well equipped with 6-speed transmission, projector headlamps, Cruise Control, Wood and chrome trim interiors, key-less entry, auto AC, rear AC vents, fog lamps, reverse parking sensor etc. Being just under the 10 lac ex-showroom mark, it also escapes higher road tax bracket in many states including TN. Should be possible to get one for under 11.5 Lacs on-road. I hope the revised Ertiga with the new engine is also launched soon, it would be a sweet VFM offering.
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Old 29th March 2019, 12:59   #102
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Default re: The Maruti Ciaz & Ertiga 1.5L Diesel

Quote:
Originally Posted by Durango Dude View Post
Why isn't any one giving a true automatic (not the AMT's) option on diesel engines, except Hyundai? One has to be wary of this soft launch and not book the product straight away, but wait to see the reviews and how it fares in the long term.
I wholeheartedly agree that one should be wary of this launch, considering that the numbers are significantly short of the expectations for a 1.5L Diesel mill.

On a different note, I'd like to point out that both Honda and Volkswagen offer non-AMT systems on their diesel sedans, with Honda offering the Amaze with CVT and VW including a DSG with the Ameo.
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Old 29th March 2019, 13:03   #103
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Default re: The Maruti Ciaz & Ertiga 1.5L Diesel

So the heavier cars that actually needed this engine are not being launched first? Both S-Cross and Vitara Brezza desperately need the 1.5L engine! Are they planning for higher state of tune?
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Old 29th March 2019, 13:31   #104
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Default re: The Maruti Ciaz & Ertiga 1.5L Diesel

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainPrice View Post
I wholeheartedly agree that one should be wary of this launch, considering that the numbers are significantly short of the expectations for a 1.5L Diesel mill.

On a different note, I'd like to point out that both Honda and Volkswagen offer non-AMT systems on their diesel sedans, with Honda offering the Amaze with CVT and VW including a DSG with the Ameo.
The torque figures are better than the engines from Honda and Ford. Power is down by 5PS on both of them. But both Ford and Honda engines are lauded for their tractable nature.

Where is that significant number you're talking about?

Also the CVT from Honda has reduced power and torque numbers from the same engine to make it work with the CVT. It's a well known fact that the DSG gearbox is a lottery. If one has to be wary, it'll be about the performance of these gearboxes.
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Old 29th March 2019, 17:55   #105
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Default re: The Maruti Ciaz & Ertiga 1.5L Diesel

So I happened to visit MCIE due to some official work, and during a break, I hopped into nearby NEXA showroom.

Since my father drives a Ciaz diesel, I was keen to check out the new 1.5 diesel. The SA promptly said that the the introduction of this engine is done pretty 'silently' by MS standards, and that they have no clue as to when the TD vehicle will come, or when the deliveries begin. Frankly, the showroom was empty, with no buzz whatsoever. I enquired about this engine making its way into S-Cross, and he confidently said the S-Cross will first be introduced in a Petrol avatar. They have absolutely no clue about this engine making its way into S-Cross. The most surprising thing? He had no clue about the on-road pricing for Ciaz 1.5 Diesel, and he told me that he'll revert once he gets the 'actual' pricing. Also, no info or clue on introduction of automatics into either of the cars.

The final on-road price for Alpha Diesel will be in the vicinity of 14L, which frankly, doesn't sound very VFM to me. I am in touch with another NEXA dealer regarding the same. Hopefully, the exact pricing details will be out by the end of next week.

Regards

Last edited by Jaggu : 29th March 2019 at 18:27. Reason: Adding paragraph break for easy reading. Thanks.
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