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Old 25th December 2019, 23:41   #1
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Default Which manufacturers made you happy...and which disappointed you?

We've discussed Cars & Bikes that have come, made their impression and have left a mark in our lives before they bid adieu to us. We've indeed made an evaluation of all the vehicles all this while - good things they get, bad things they leave etc.

But, it is time we think which manufacturer has made us happy or left us disappointed with either their products those were released or never seen the light of the day or even their visions that hasn't been materialized or even the service networks where they disappointed us and caused extreme discomfort or put you down.

Let me start with mine and let's hear from you guys too.

1) Bajaj - Made me happy through 2001 - 2007 and made me feel disappointed from there on!

Need I say more when I mention Pulsar series that instigated the MAN within ourselves at a young age? They created an impression with the young boys that real men indeed possessed a Pulsar in their lifetime and I did follow the ads (remember Definitely Male?throughout and ended up having 2 Pulsar's in my life time - P150 DTSI for plus 2 education & the legendary P220 FI that was discontinued in 2009!

Which manufacturers made you happy...and which disappointed you?-p220.jpg

They left me disappointed solely because their products after P220 FI & P200, all other products left a bad taste in me and made me not look into their portfolio ever again. However, they did mention to bring in P250 / P400 which never saw the light of the day. Thus, they left me disappointed and I am not a fan of them anymore since 2009. Only good thing was that they made a good deal of bringing in the KTM range but it didn't ring a bell in my heart. But, the downside is they lost the enthusiasm to build their own engines and started borrowing it from KTM!

Not to mention their lame marketing stunts that did not remain positive in the minds of true bikers by mocking at the competition, thereby damaging a potent motorcycle's future i.e. Dominar 400's in India.

However, settled down for their far cousin Kawasaki's Ninja 300 this year

2) TVS

Was never a fan of them since I was a Pulsar fanboy back in my college days. But, I thought Bajaj was going to race ahead into future with bigger capacity fully faired bikes. But, boy I was wrong. TVS was only playing with their Apache series being all naked performance oriented machines and then comes out with the RR310 which is indeed a stunning looking bike compared to any other Indian made bikes in the market. They indeed made me happy after the launch of their RR310.

Which manufacturers made you happy...and which disappointed you?-rr310.jpg

3) Tata

They have made me proud as an Indian with their product line up with Safari being the Alpha in their portfolio range up till Aria / Hexa / Harrier took over the crown.

The way Tata progressed since the time they took over JLR in 2008 was something that made me feel they might make an image for themselves in future and was indeed reassuring i.e. in the current decade (minus 6 days to 2020) - ex: Tiago, Tigor, Harrier, Hexa and not to mention the foregone Safari which is unlikely to come back. Altroz is much awaited car and it does look extremely beautiful from all angles. They have come a far way from Indica design to a futuristic drool-worthy designs like the Altroz, Tiago JTP, Nexon EV and what not! Hope they come up with more performance oriented machines like the JTP and remain in the competition for years to come.

I only wish they did not disappoint the Safari enthusiasts! Hope, Safari makes a come back when M&M is working relentlessly to keep the Scorpio brand going on and on! They became too indulged in new product developments and discarded the old ones. I know change is the only thing that's constant. But, the legend can be reborn alongside Sierra. Think over, Tata!


Which manufacturers made you happy...and which disappointed you?-tiago.jpg
Which manufacturers made you happy...and which disappointed you?-tata_sierra.jpg


4) M&M

They made me happy when they came out with XUV500 that became an instant hit and got introduced to the global markets. They did make me proud with their approach of going global at the early stages when our cars barely saw overseas. I'm sure there were a few, but this car gathered a lot of attention quite quickly.

Bringing back Thar was another good thing for M&M as they catered to a lot of enthusiasts which Tata has to learn a thing or two from these guys and think of bringing back Sierra which would be an instant hit!

Which manufacturers made you happy...and which disappointed you?-xuv500.jpg
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I could think of more, but I would like to keep this thread short & crisp. Let's hear it from you now.

PS:
image sourced from web except P220 FI picked from my very own thread

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/motor...companion.html (My 2007 Pulsar 220 FI Tribute to a wonderful companion!)
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Old 27th December 2019, 10:28   #2
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Default Re: Which manufacturers made you happy...and which disappointed you?

Thread moved from the Assembly Line to the Indian Car Scene. Thanks for sharing!

A most unique thread . Sharing my 2 paisa:

Audi: Disappointed with the uninspiring products & poor sales strategy - related thread. Limited engines, under-powered engines, no AWD, no 3.0 diesels...

BMW: Mixed bag. Their cars remain the most fun-to-drive & score high on reliability, but I hate their new design language (of the front end).

Chevrolet: Disappointed me big time by abandoning India. Mary Barra came to India and lied about major investments, only to do a u-turn in 12 months.

Datsun: Depressing approach, thinking that "cheap" will sell. Made some amends with the Redi-GO.

FCA: Very happy with the Compass as a product, but rather disheartened with their terrible response times. Still no well-priced Diesel AT which the market loves!

Ford: Happy with the cars. Glad they tied up with Mahindra instead of divorcing India like GM.

Honda: Looks lost & directionless, IMHO. Honda once stood for something (brilliant engines, top engineering, innovation, quality). I frankly don't know what the Honda India of 2019 stands for.

Hyundai: Love Hyundai for their well-rounded cars, top quality, fair pricing.

Isuzu: Who is that? Love the V-Cross, and there's nothing more to be said about the company. A bit player.

Jaguar-Land Rover: In terms of design & styling, this is one of my favourite companies. Nothing screams class & timelessness like a Jaguar or Range Rover. In all other areas though, customers are left wanting. Almost all of their cars are overpriced, the reliability is terrible, the after-sales service shoddy...the list goes on. Especially surprising because the parent company is Indian! They should be giving Mercedes, BMW & Audi a run for their money. Alas.

Kia: Respect for the way they entered India. Product, strategy & execution were spot on.

Lexus: Like the comfort-oriented cars, but disappointed with their ugly facial styling & inflated CBU price-tags. Shows lack of commitment to India.

Mahindra: Bit of a hit & miss, as they have always been. Am damn impressed with the quality & engineering of their new cars, in particular the Marazzo & XUV300. Both are superb! Not happy with the way they market their cars & their habit of doing too many things, but not doing anything well (case in point = two wheelers, commercial vehicles, aviation, marine business etc.).

Maruti: Respect for the way they defended their turf and retained 50% market-share, despite so many new entrants. The competence level of their cars has significantly improved over the last 5 years. Also appreciate them trying new things (AMT, Nexa, SHVS are prime examples). Saddened by their lack of commitment to safety. As the market's no.1 player, they should be leading by example.

Mercedes: Dream company at the moment. Sexiest cars, the sales leader, brilliant management and domination in F1.

MG: Respect for what they achieved with the Hector. And they are really trying hard. SAIC's strategy of launching as a British brand (instead of Chinese) is also a master-class. Hope they don't become a 1-trick pony, as their erstwhile partner GM India always was. At any given time, Chevrolet only had 1 car that really sold.

Mitsubishi: Who? More of a car importer in India than a manufacturer.

Nissan: My thread says it all - link (Nissan India Deathwatch - Will Nissan exit India?).

Porsche: Could do a lot more with their SUVs (especially the Macan), but surprisingly restricted. Over-priced cars, obscenely priced options, poor marketing & awful sales strategy. Love the cars, hate the company. The best example of "lost opportunities" in the luxury segment.

Renault: I appreciate them for working hard, especially when you compare them to the lame Datsun & Nissan group companies. They did well with the Kwid and have attempted something unique & different with the Triber.

Skoda: Love their cars. The true definition of value-for-money because almost all of the models punch above their weight - related thread. Hate Skoda for the many errors it has made over the years which destroyed their reputation. Skoda could easily be selling double or triple what it currently does, if it weren't for their awful reputation.

Tata: They are trying very, very hard. Love their new cars, especially the Nexon & Hexa. They disappointed me with the Harrier; a car that had the potential to be great, but Tata messed it up as they didn't do their homework (niggles, no automatics...). Harrier is in the ICU and dangerously close to being branded a FLOP in a segment that is on fire. It's like being unable to sell heaters in Kashmir!

Toyota: Mixed feelings. Remains a utility vehicle seller in India, with the same two cars (Innova & Fortuner) paying their bills. Toyota has sexy cars internationally, but refuses to bring them here. Toyota India has always moved at snail's pace. On the other hand, I greatly respect Toyota for their tie-up with Suzuki and managing the partnership well (don't forget what happened to the VW-Suzuki marriage). Brilliant move = Toyota will eventually swallow Suzuki and thus, dominate India.

Volkswagen: Terribly disappointed. Cheaters (emissions scandal). More or less given up on India. Still selling 10-year old cars (Polo, Vento) when they have so much else to potentially offer. Absolutely love their cars though = the Passat is my favourite from the segment & I still miss the Jetta.

Volvo: They've made enormous progress! Volvo has gone from "boring" to "sexy" and the market has rewarded them. The new Chinese bosses have managed Volvo admirably. In India though, Volvo has a lot of work to do. Horrible dealers, weird pricing & variants, still limited reach, too slow to react.

Last edited by Aditya : 27th December 2019 at 11:14.
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Old 27th December 2019, 11:16   #3
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Default Re: Which manufacturers made you happy...and which disappointed you?

Happy:

Fiat - All their cars were way ahead of their times. One company that put Passion over Profits

Mahindra - Till couple of years back they were spot on with a lot of things they did. Currently, they are headed in a dangerous trajectory

Mitsubishi - Another company whose products ooze passion over profits. Unfortunately, they are in endangered category now

Unhappy:

Maruti - Taking a huge population for a ride with their plethora of tin cans in various forms. If you are a market leader, use the opportunity to set good benchmarks

Tata - Just does not have it in them to be called a Car manufacturer

Renault - Shady products, shady business tactics and a shady company

Last edited by CliffHanger : 27th December 2019 at 11:20.
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Old 27th December 2019, 11:29   #4
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Default Re: Which manufacturers made you happy...and which disappointed you?

I will stick to manufacturers from whom I have bought cars. Pretty much most of them I owned have kept me really happy except 2 which I have listed below.

VW: If one car that I would like to forget from my ownership is VW Vento. Yes had a fantastic engine that sounded like a tractor, but never liked this one. Infact VW is one the main reason that made me not buy anymore German cars. Things would break easily, expensive service costs, unavailable parts and hyped up build quality- my car would rattle to glory. ABS sensors went kaput just after 2 years, took to service center, technicians charged 2K to just confirm me sensors have gone bad and need replacement. What more, they disagreed to replace under warranty. Had many more events like these during my ownership.
Renault: Have bought in some good out of the box products-Duster,Kwid,Triber. However their A.S.S leaves a lot to be desired. Service costs are high and worst part- even routine service takes long time.
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Old 27th December 2019, 11:37   #5
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Default Re: Which manufacturers made you happy...and which disappointed you?

This will be a good thread as long as the inputs from members are genuine & unbiased.

Requesting mods to throw in a strict Mod Note before this starts happening again -

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Old 27th December 2019, 11:56   #6
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Default Re: Which manufacturers made you happy...and which disappointed you?

Comparing the two vehicles I own.

Hyundai - Has made me happy. And I respect them for what they have done in this country. They make cars with the best interior quality and I find the service experience to be professional. In the 5 years that I owned it, I had one unscheduled visit to replace the ABS sensor. One more ABS sensor was replaced during a scheduled visit. It visited the service centre exactly 6 times in the last five years. All six were handled by pickup drivers and the service experience have been very professional. To everyone who asks a car recommendation, I recommend Hyundai.

Tata - Not happy with them. They make cars that appeal to my heart. And I may buy Tata cars again because in most cases they represent a unique proposition. But I will never invest in the shares; nor do I have the confidence to recommend a Tata product to anyone till they sort out their quality control. My Hexa never let me down till now, but the number of unscheduled service visits is too high to my comfort. Granted, all of them were fixed in half an hour, but I want my car to be free of any defects at all. I know many manufacturers have cars with defects, but I think the number of defect per 100 is simply high for Tata compared to Hyundai.

Last edited by padmrajravi : 27th December 2019 at 11:59.
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Old 27th December 2019, 16:25   #7
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Default Re: Which manufacturers made you happy...and which disappointed you?

I am sticking to brands I have a personal experience with, or those that have truly stood out.

Audi: Disappointed me - they had some stellar products and were on top of their game from 2008 - 2013; and then they steadily started losing the plot. Their products during that phase started the LED DRL trend in India, but their once classy & timeless designs have barely evolved (which in a way is a good thing); once known for bringing in various options & feature loading their cars - they are actually taking steps backwards as is seen with the new A6 v/s the older one; and their service levels have always been a hit or miss (though my most recent experience was a very pleasant surprise). They once were the all rounders in the respective segments - and they still are to a certain extent, but the competition is moving forward at a much quicker pace.

BMW: I am quite 50:50 on this. Once you've owned an E-series BMW, all the newer ones (Fs, Gs) just seem to feel like Audis from 2008-2013 albeit more modern versions. Yes, they still are amongst the better driving options in their respective segments (though the Jaguar rivals are giving them some stiff competition as far a 4 pot petrols are concerned); the interiors are young and a nice departure from Mercedes's luxury feel; and reliability & maintenance is fairly good too. But somewhere the feeling of Joy - be it behind the wheel, or looking behind after parking has been lost.

Ford: I really like their products. Though softened, they are still superb to drive in their respective segments. That being said - they aren't built as tough as they once were in my opinion.

Hyundai: I hate to say it, but the company I once despised has actually made me warm up to their products. They've made great strides in overcoming their weaknesses - suspension, average interiors, quirky designs, etc. Would be in my top 3 family car brands.

Jaguar-Land Rover: Disappointed with Land Rover - average interiors, tight space, average engines, average reliability, etc.
Jaguar though has made some strides in terms of fun to drive, and I really like some of their designs but still a while away from having a product I aspire to buy.

Kia: I really like the Seltos & their some of their proposed product line-up. It is going to definitely make life harder for a majority of the market!

Lexus: Mixed Bag. I like the products - they appeal to me with their reliable and luxurious nature. Perfect luxury car for the chauffeur driven with it's peace of mind ownership experience and comfortable ride. But then again, the pricing is just ridiculous! The ES costs as much as the LWB E Class which has a much nicer backseat experience, and the LS is a little shy of the S560 Maybach - which again has a much nicer experience!

Mahindra: I like the improvements they have been making in terms of product and quality. The new Thar & XUV500 should really take the game forward!

Maruti: Mixed bag - I like their products, but my concerns over the build & safety will prevent me from buying most of their cars.

Mercedes: Mixed bag - they have a super line up - the new GLE & GLS will be king of the segments when they launch, the E LWB was truly a master move by Mercedes, etc.
However their reliability and maintenance costs is significantly on the higher side, and their build quality seems to be taking a beating too (rattles, plasticky interiors that can be easily scratched, etc.). I aspire to own some of their cars, but the reliability & maintenance costs is a big deterrent.

Mitsubishi: They had such a great legacy with some beautiful & competent products. Now they have nothing!

Skoda: What started out as a mixed bag has steadily made its way to attaining happiness
Superb products, and improving service levels have helped, though am a little concerned with their decision to forgo diesels with BS-6 implementation. Hopefully they pick good petrol engines to satisfy us enthusiasts.

Tata: I love the strides they've made as a company in terms of their products. The Harrier, the JTP Twins, and even the Altroz are cars I wouldn't mind parked in my garage.
Just wish they bring in an auto for the Harrier though because otherwise it will remain parked in the garage only.

Toyota: I love their products. They aren't lookers, they aren't feature loaded, and they aren't cheap. But they are well built, comfortable, safe, and will last a hundred years! Again, in my top 3 family car brands.

Volkswagen: Mixed bag. Love their products - just like with Skoda. Just wish they had better support like Skoda.
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Old 28th December 2019, 10:07   #8
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Fiat: A tragic story since the 90s, even more than a Shakespearean ballad. Unfruitful (i.e poor choices like PAL and Tata) partnerships and lackluster management finally killed the brand, which was already on the fringes of the market. I literally love all their cars though.

GM: Opel failed because of poor management, product choices and reliability woes, Korean expatriate Daewoo died because of the Korean crisis and ridiculous strategic decisions (e.g ramping up production of it's sedans rather than the Matiz), Chevrolet died because of again, some poor product choices, the Daewoo- derived Aveo twins were boring, the SAIC- derived Sail twins equally dull, and the Wall Street crisis didn't help matters. And Ms. Barra turned out to be a big fat liar.

Ford: Iconic brand, bad decisions. Where is the Fiesta hatchback? The Focus hatchback? They were too slow in bringing the 2nd gen Endeavour, though I'm happy they brought the Mustang at a decent price. Don't dilute your fun to drive principle on your new products with Mahindra.

Hyundai: What an Odyssey! Entering in unfavourable market conditions (post New Economic Reforms), has become the only serious rival to Maruti Suzuki. Has improved on all fronts over the years, where others have lagged.

Volkswagen: A joke. They released the capable Polo and Bento, never retooled their plant to build cars on the MQB AO platform, made the disgusting looking (rear) Ameo on the dated PQ25 platform. Where's the Golf? You have so many capable offerings abroad ( where's the Atlas?), but when will you get them?

Skoda: Made the Octavia and Superb king of sedans, but forgot about other segments. Overpriced the Fabia, reliability and Service woes. Hopefully both VW-Skoda can eradicate them completely with India 2.0 plan. Mr. Zac Hollis seems promising. Just stop selling us outdated products, neither you nor VW is Suzuki, who has the power to do that.

Kia: Came with a bang, is here to stay. Has the backing of a now very powerful Hyundai Motor Company, and convinced my parents to become one of the early owners of the Seltos.

MG: I don't like it's 'British' claims, considering what they're selling is a Chinese product, but they're smart. Great marketing, they too are here to stay.

Maruti Suzuki: One brand I despise, have never liked them, they comprised too much on their products, especially the current offerings. Except for the 1.2 K- Series and engine efficiency, they aren't leading anywhere, except in sales.

Renault-Nissan: What's wrong with these guys? Where's the New Duster, Clio, Micra and Sunny? Fix your management and dealers before selling the consumers any products.

Last edited by BZ25 : 28th December 2019 at 10:10.
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Old 28th December 2019, 11:53   #9
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Default Re: Which manufacturers made you happy...and which disappointed you?

Maruti: Happy. We just sold our 2010 Dzire. As expected the experience was impressive. No niggles, zero breakdowns and the service experience was pretty good too. The car visited the service station for periodic service and whenever we dinged the car. Maruti chaps, whenever you visit them, you can feel these guys want to sell/service cars. They've got aggression.

Disappointed with their cheapness w.r.t. build quality and safety. This was the only deterrent preventing us from moving on to another Maruti.

Tata: Mixed Bag. Jack of all trades master of none - The Tata Group. And that quality has rubbed the most onto Tata Motors. They make cars with great potential. But mess up the final 10%. And lack aggression, big time.
The Harrier would never have such dismal sales figures had it been brought to the market by Maruti, Hyundai or to some extent Mahindra.

Only Tata has the potential to botch up & not use brand names like Safari, Sumo, Sierra. GTO says KIA & MG should be case studies for B School grads. Tata too needs to be one : to know what not to do.

Their commitment to safety is admirable. They need to squeeze the last bit of PR out of it.

Mahindra: Happy. I never thought Mahindra would come this far. They've made me proud. But they keep trying to bite off more than they can chew. They are all over the place, need more focus.

Skoda: Great cars, amazing cars, VFM cars, classy cars, I could go on. Now go in the opposite direction whenever you have to wonder about their after sales & service.

Volkswagen: Disappointed. I seriously don't understand why they aren't interested in India. That's the only difference between them and Skoda.

Hyundai: Surprised. I had never imagined they would one day be breaking into the premium club. They have taken Honda's spot as far as premium is concerned.

Honda: Meh. One word. Clueless/Arrogant. Pick your choice.

Ford: Not making use of their potential. Great cars. But I don't want Mahindra's design to creep into their Indian portfolio.

Toyota: I'm unhappy with the fact that they are happy with just the Innova and Fortuner. Bring more cars!

Last edited by TROOPER : 28th December 2019 at 11:57.
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Old 28th December 2019, 12:05   #10
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Default Re: Which manufacturers made you happy...and which disappointed you?

I will talk only about the manufacturers whose products i have owned so that i can speak for the product + ownership experience.

1. Maruti Suzuki: (2002 Zen lxi, 2006 swift zxi)
Product quality: very good for those days, on par or better than what the competition offered
Service: very good, next to only toyota if i must rate
Remarks: Excellent ownership experience with complete peace of mind

2. Fiat: (2008 Palio style 1.6, 2012 Punto 1.3 emotion pack)
Product quality: excellent, best in class or even the class above for dynamics and fun to drive factor
Service: was extremely poor in Tata-Fiat JV, good after they separated the service
Remarks: excellent long distance cars, most fun to drive vehicles among the hatchbacks.

3. Skoda: (2006 Octavia vRS)
Product Quality: excellent, provided fun to drive experience in spades but with the limitations of ground clearance, also my first experience of a german car, but had some minor reliability issues
Service: worst i have experienced - attitude of the service centers was outright arrogant and exploitative, so i chose to maintain it with a FNG
Remark: Totally loved the product, i wish the service was atleast aceptable

4. Tata: (2010 Safari Dicor GX 4X4, 2019 Nexon XZA+)
Product quality: Safari was substandard and with niggling issues but provided full size SUV experience in bucket loads at a low price, so i will say it was value for money in a way. Nexon is really a well sorted product which one wont mind using even after having the experience with quality japanese/europian products.
Service: was strictly below average in my Safari days but its good now but still below Toyota and Suzuki
Remark: Safari was a great full size SUV experience within low budget and Nexon is 'jack of all trades' with good quality, so i am/was happy with both the products

5. Mitsubishi: (2013 Pajero Sport 4X4)
Product quality: Excellent but pricey due to our import duty structure, bullet proof reliablity, much better overall product than it's competition in those days
Service: Good, but not good as toyota, suzuki
Remark: IMHO Manufacturer of 'PERFECT SUVs' but poor show in India due to the partner HM. I say perfect because Mitsubishi SUVs are as reliable as toyota, they provide creature comforts / features like a Luxury Sedan (in outlander and montero) and have one of the best ride handling setups providing both - comfort and entertaining drive.

6. Renault: (2012 Koleos)
Product Quality: excellent, feature packed, europian quality, premium touches and experience everywhere right from the interior materials used to Bose, great attention to details like split tail gate, overall reliability is also good but not as good as japanese SUVs
Service: Really Good but i need to wait for 8-10 days for non service parts whenever they need replacement (due to low sales of the koleos in India)
Remark: I really like Renault's europian products but totally hate their current indian lineup

7. Toyota: (2018 etios)
Product quality: product is bare bones when it comes to specifications but functionality, longevity and reliability is just superb.
Service: THE BEST i have experienced. Schedules, analysis, workmanship, follow ups, maintainance costs, everything is perfect.
Remark: The most peace of mind experience among car manufacturers in India. I have now made a personal rule to use Toyota cars for my company operations for the said merits but being an auto enthusiast, i dont find them interesting enough for personal use.

8. Kawasaki: (2014 Ninja 650, 2016 Ninja ZX 14R)
Product quality: 650 was a great entry level performance machine with only flaw being the poor brakes. 14R's abilities are just mind boggling and so is the reliability considering that it is a hyperbike with some crazy performance numbers. Our crater rich roads call for a bike with better suspension travel, otherwise there is nothing that can ever disappoint you about this machine. Even other products are relatively good value for money due to CKD operations.
Service: service is good but expensive
Remark: 14R is one of the greatest bikes ever made in my opinion and i will give full score to Kawasaki for their abilities.

Last edited by 46TheDoctor : 28th December 2019 at 12:16.
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Old 28th December 2019, 14:21   #11
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Default Re: Which manufacturers made you happy...and which disappointed you?

Restricting myself with the brands owned by me.

Maruti –Neutral feeling towards them. Owned Maruti 800 and it was my first car. The car served its purpose from point A to point B travel. The only grouse I have against Maruti is – being a leader and largest market share holder in the country, they failed miserably to bring in new technology or segment best features or safety features in each category they compete in. They have vast resources in their pocket, but their priority is somewhere else.

Hyundai – One of the companies I admire for their resourcefulness and commitment to India. They entered the market with a drawback against a well entrenched Maruti – but still able to challenge them in their own turf and also establish mastery over few segments. Santro Xing had served me for well over seven years with trouble free ownership

Toyota – Very unhappy with them. Admire them for their quality, but have a dislike for their attitude towards India. They seem to be sitting on a high perched plateau and looking down on India with disdain. For example, Etios was a very competent product with a gem of diesel engine – but with mundane interiors and downright cost cutting, they killed the product. Also not interested to bring in latest product from international portfolio to India. Etios served me well, but boring interiors made me sell the vehicle in 3.5 years.

Honda – Not very happy with them. Confused strategy for India. It seems they are more worried on high profit margin in each car rather than establishing a viable portfolio and increase the market footprint and volume to generate better profit. Similar in attitude to Toyota. My present commute City diesel is serving me well for last five years without any issues. Like the car very much except for the engine noise, especially at higher speed

On Two wheeler:

TVS – Happy with their approach. In mid ninety when TVS were on downhill – one of the products to change fortune of this company was Samurai bike - in collaboration with Suzuki. The bike had a great look and good to ride. It served me well over eleven years. Next commute bike Victor was also from them. TVS had managed well, even after their collaboration ended with Suzuki and have a good portfolio mix in the present market

Suzuki – Disappointed with them. Not able to expand in the market, though they have some competent product. I own a GS150R bike for last eight years and very happy with the performance.

Vespa – Not happy with their strategy. They have entered the market with Vespa as premium life style offering. The product is good to own and ride, but their service is pathetic. Paying premium for a product one expects the service to be at a higher level

Last edited by AshBabu : 28th December 2019 at 14:28.
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Old 28th December 2019, 15:41   #12
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Default Re: Which manufacturers made you happy...and which disappointed you?

I'm rating the happiness level of owning different manufacturers' vehicles, not their activities in the market.
My opinion is mostly from the backseat since I've not driven a car yet, but here's my opinion of the manufacturers whose cars we've owned:

Suzuki(Esteem)
Don't really remember much about our Esteem except that the AC was pretty much useless. After sitting in others' Suzukis, I still can't figure out what's special enough to make them the highest sold in India. Sad to see most Indians falling for the brand name and buying their cars merely out of trust, while their truly deserving models(Grand Vitara, S-Cross) never sold very well.
Verdict: Was not very happy having one, will never be happy owning any of them(S-Cross aside)

Hyundai(Santro Zip+)
Again, I don't really remember much about our Santro. But I do know that Hyundai sure has moved on since then. I've sat in my friends' i10s and i20s and I figured out that they make the perfect package for a family: refinement, quality interiors and decent power. They're going a little overboard with their confidence though, especially in the styling department. If they stick to their roots and don't let sister brand Kia eat into their sales, they might even overtake Suzuki in sales.
Verdict: Average earlier, but I'd be happy to own one now.

Honda(City 1st gen, ZX i-DSi, 3rd-gen i-VTEC, Civic 1st-gen)
The Hondas we owned were spacious, refined, of good quality and very reliable(I can't remember a single breakdown). So it comes as a great disappointment to me that they've taken the wrong path. Honda was a manufacturer that would appeal to the head as much as the heart. Their demise, in my opinion, started with the 1st-gen Amaze(no disrespect to owners here). After sitting in a friend's 4th-gen City, I realised that Hondas don't have the same finesse anymore. The main problem is that the competition has moved on. It was a proud affair to own a Honda once upon a time. When you sat in one, you commanded respect over others on the road. Not so anymore. I'd rather sit in a Verna or Vento than a new City any day.
Verdict: Used to make me happy, but not anymore.

Toyota(Innova, Fortuner 1st-gen)
Toyota may not have any character of its own, but I can swear by its reliability. Our Fortuner hasn't had a single major problem to date, and mind you, it's nearing ten years. The only killer was boring interiors, which has been improved upon now. And their service deserves a special mention. Their service standards are the best by far in India. I'd definitely buy one again. Toyotas don't put a grin on your face when you rev them, but they keep you calm in the back of your head, because you know you can trust them.
Verdict: Seemed disappointing, but has proven to keep me happy in the due course of time.

Ford(Ikon)
The earlier among their cars had great driving dynamics and build quality, but the 2nd-gen Figo changed that reputation. Their cars now have no particular USP. The new Figo sold less than I expected it to, though. I wouldn't really buy one if I had to. Their cars are turning characterless by the day.
Verdict: Would be happy to own any one barring the new Figo, Freestyle, Aspire or any model with the DCT.

Volkswagen(Vento MPI, Polo 1.0)
In one word: confusing. They cost more than others, yet have fewer features. They use extremely good quality parts, yet are not very reliable. Service costs are quite high, but not a deal-breaker. Their MPI engines are characterless, TSIs have unreliable DSGs, and TDIs are probably being phased out. Interior quality is great and styling is classy(the Polo seems quite new for a 10-year old car). The TSI engines have a dual-sided nature: refined in the city and monsters on the highway. Wish they treated India like other markets and gave us the new Jetta and Golf. The 'German' halo created by the old Passat and Beetle is slowly dying. VW desperately needs a new launch before they lose our interest.
Verdict: Fairly happy ownership experience, but service cost was unexpected.

Škoda(Octavia 1.8TSI)
Slowly but surely regaining the 'poor man's Mercedes' tag. Their products are much fresher than their sister, VW's. Octavia L&K, on the inside, seems like it belongs 2 segments above. Love their current crystalline styling. The new international Octavia's, not so much. Service can be termed 'not bad' but they take a long time to fix minor problems. Their cars connect with you emotionally, so much so that a friend of ours started crying abruptly when we told her we got an Octavia, because she missed her first-gen Octavia which she had to sell it because it was getting too expensive to maintain. Their 'peace of mind' campaign seems to be working, except for the DSG. Contrary to VW, their future seems quite optimistic to me and I hope their cars retain their nature.
Verdict: Extremely happy ownership experience.

Nissan(Terrano XL petrol)
There's absolutely no reason to buy a Nissan right now. Bad build quality, bad interiors(not true on the Sunny and Micra though), non-existent service(centre closed half the time), expensive to buy, expensive service and unreliable(has left us stranded many a time). I've made up my mind to never buy or suggest a Nissan as long as I'm in India. They need to either give us the new Micra, Versa, et cetera or leave before they ruin their reputation any further.
Verdict: Bitterly disappointing ownership experience.

BMW(X1 sDrive MT, 320d F30)
While I particularly despised our X1(didn't find anything special except the logo), I have an unbreakable attachment to our 3-series. That growling turbodiesel puts a smile on my face every time I hear it in its midrange. Except for expensive service and low ground clearance(even on the X1), I love most of their cars. Wouldn't particularly recommend the X series though. I wish they had stuck to their styling and didn't give their new SUVs that garish kidney-shaped grille. Their cars, though, are sheer drivers' cars and their high-speed handling is the best among the Big Three Germans. Their sheer commitment to the Indian market keeps me happy, and confident in them.
Verdict: Extremely happy ownership experience, barring service cost and ride quality.

Last edited by ron178 : 28th December 2019 at 15:59. Reason: Punctuation errors
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Old 28th December 2019, 18:23   #13
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Default Re: Which manufacturers made you happy...and which disappointed you?

Happy :

1. Maruti : Call them tin cans, but they cracked this market like no other. Got one of first hot hatches Zen, which is still revered.. and most of their product launches caught the imagination of our hard working and ever demanding public. The Dzire, Brezza, Wagon R etc. Make a lot of sense, just not for us enthusiasts. They may be relatively unsafe , but they got more indians into 4 wheeler ownership than any other manufacturer.

Hyundai : Took a completely different approach, quality vs volume and hence they are the only ones to give a tough fight to Maruti with the rising incomes in our country. Kia Motors was one more master stroke and together they are a force to be reckoned with.

Tata: Created some of the most inspirational products like the Safari, Sierra, Indica, Sumo, Tiago, Nexon, Hexa, Harrier and continue to do so inform of upcoming launches.

Mahindra : Again brilliant product launches, Thar, XUV 500, Marrazzo. And some really poor ones like the kuv 300, quanto.. but the good ones trump the bad launches.

Unhappy :

Skoda : The company just lost it with the local indian mis-management. Guilty of all depravities including supporting dealers who steal parts and then sue customers to mis managed service centers. Awesome products from the parent company are really let down by local indian bosses.

Chevrolet : Another manufacturer which was in top 5 with an iconic brand and just competely lost it.. the Optra, Cruze, Beat were successful products and they could have gone from strength to strength, but decided to get lame products like the Enjoy, Sail twins. Did the same with another sibling brand in Opel which had an aspirational product in Astra.

Ford: You have it in you to give us brilliant products the Ikon, Fiesta, Endeavour, Ecosport , Figo and still dont have it in you to compete. For god's sakes companies like datsun with its rubbish line up have made more effort to sell their products.

Neutral:

Renault : Really cool products like the Duster, Kwid and now Triber at their respective price points and you launch rubbish like the lodgy and captur. Have to give it to you for fighting it out unlike some other foreigners.

Honda : had some real brilliant products like the city and civic and now all you seem to do is slap on chrome mustaches. Insult to the Japanese industry the way you have conducted yourself here.

Volkswagen : Had a decent reputation and can't even do as well as its already poorly performing cousin. That's really saying something.

Toyota: got lucky with a couple of iconic products and then nothing more.


Not worth mentioning :

Fiat, Datsun, Nissan, HM, Mitsubishi, Isuzu, Premier..

Last edited by charanreddy : 28th December 2019 at 18:26.
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Old 28th December 2019, 19:45   #14
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Default Re: Which manufacturers made you happy...and which disappointed you?

Happy as well as Sad-

1. Fiat: oh my goodness. We had Fiat Palio 1.6 sport. 100 bhp. It was sure a hot hatch even to this day. Built like a tank. We used to for 7-8 years. Very sad Fiat have no support in India. Heart touching moment while giving it away. Because we had lot of problems later on.

2. Opel: Opel cars were way ahead of other manufacturers during that time. It may look bland, but the built quality, features and engine is something you can’t stop bragging.

Happy:

Honda: wow! Honda never failed to disappoint us. After Palio we bought Honda city. The brilliantly refined iVTEC engine is something no other manufacturer can beat. It is super silent, absolutely no vibration.
But admit it, the built quality was not as good as Fiat. But it’s fine.
Sad:

Nissan: I don’t know. I never liked the Nissan cars. It looks boring inside out. Even the Nissan GT-R which is (supposed to be) on a different level, doesn’t feel special.

Maruti: What exactly is going on with Maruti? They wanted to beat ever leading Honda city, so they launched Ciaz, with literally same rear lights.

What’s with the new Ertiga?
Can’t afford a Volvo XC90? Buy Ertiga.
Can’t afford Porsche Panamera? Buy Dzire.
Can’t afford Honda CR-V? Buy WagonR.
What exactly is the difference between Brezza and S-cross?
Baleno and Swift.
They have produced more cars than other manufacturers have ever sold their cars.
What was the point of Ritz? A-star? Zen Estilo? When they already had the best selling WagonR.
Versa. When they had Omni.
Kizashi. Believe me, I have never seen a Kizashi in my entire life. Only if I see a Kizashi I can die peacefully.

Last edited by Sheel : 28th December 2019 at 21:19. Reason: Putting spaces for better readability. Maruthi = Maruti.
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Old 28th December 2019, 19:59   #15
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Default Re: Which manufacturers made you happy...and which disappointed you?

I will write this post according to what I felt about a manufacturer 10 years back, what I am feeling about them today and what I predict will happen 10 years later with them. In the end will post my personal verdict.


MARUTI
- 10 years back: We have great cars and will have great engines to cater to enthusiasts. But will never upgrade and keep blaming government for their policies.
-Today : We have great cars. Since we have maintained our marketing positions, we don't give a damn about safety. But will never upgrade and keep blaming government for the policies.
-10 years later: We will never upgrade but found someone who believes in us. Thank you Toyota.
-Verdict : Disappointed. Being the highest seller, they should lead by example. Instead they keep complaining and find a shortcut to sell their products eg. SHVS, complain about safety not important to buyers, BS4, etc.

Toyota :
-10 years back : We will maintain quality and sell our cars which will be value for money for our buyers.
- Today : We still maintain quality but will demand premium. Will never bring our international models here because we are making enough from our Fortuners and Innovas.
- 10 years later : If you can't beat them, join them. Let us think about quality later. Hi Maruti,thanks for accepting my friend request.
- Verdict : Disappointed. Can be the torch bearer but they like to take things slow.

MAHINDRA:
- 10 years back : We will keep improving and provide various options in different categories like SUV, Sedans, Bikes, EVs, etc.
- Today : We will make safer cars with comparable quality to international cars. But we don't care for our first mover advantage in building electric cars like Reva.
- 10 years later : We have acquired everything in our wings like Ssangyong, Jawa, Ford but still don't understand why we aren't the first choice for the buyers. Yeah that 'niggle' things we keep forgetting about. And also we show up late with our products.
- Verdict : Neutral. They really try hard to make their products work and will ultimately be consistent with their product quality and efforts.

HYUNDAI:
- 10 years back, Today and 10 years later : We will keep providing premium products with good service backup.
-Verdict : Happy. They consistently provide beautiful cars with excellent engines. Only aspect that they need to improve is in ride and handling department. The only real competition to Maruti.

TATA:
- 10 years back: We will provide excellent cars with superb safety ratings. But those Indica days and after sales service is still haunting us.
- Today: We are reaching our full potential. Let's unleash more.
- 10 years later : We will try to be a household name just like our salt.
- Verdict : Very happy. Niggles are still a concern but I am sure they too will be taken care of soon. Indica image is still haunting them. Need to shed the baggage associated with Indica days as soon as possible which they have to an extent.

VOLKSWAGEN:
- 10 years back, Today and 10 years later : We will make a timeless design which will stand still as the competitors and time pass by us. We will cheat in between and flee soon. After sales service was never mentioned in our manuals.
- Verdict: Disappointed. No explanation needed. Only Skoda can save the parent company now. They still have excellent engine with them which can save them.

FIAT :
- 10 years back : We will sell only one beautiful product. We will generate profit by selling our 1.3 litre diesel engine.
- Today: We will sell only one product but in different clothes called by the name Compass. But this BS6 killed our 1.3. No worries, we will make profits from our 2 litre diesel engine now.
- 10 years later : Damn EVs.
- Verdict : Disappointed. Keep a check on the airports for them, they will flee the country soon.

RENAULT:
- 10 years back, Today and 10 years later: We will provide good products in different categories and start a phenomenon.
- Verdict : Happy. They started well off with Duster and started a new phenomenon. They are doing the same with Kwid and Triber now.

HONDA Cars and Motorcycles:
- 10 years back, Today and 10 years later: We are premium brands. We will charge premium. Beside why would one worry to upgrade quality when we have City and Activa which is keeping the accountant busy.
- Verdict : Disappointed. Quality is taking a hit. One can't just milk a single product and hope to survive for long. Learn from Maruti.

MG, KIA: They started with a bang and keeping fingers crossed for time being. Lets discuss on them 10 years later. Kia may survive but not sure on MG.

Ford, Datsun, Nissan don't even deserve verdicts as they fail to compete in our market. They had great products like Ecosport, Figo, Sunny, etc. but failed to upgrade faster as competition arrived.


Bajaj :
- 10 years back, Today and 10 years later - We will bombard with different products, engine combinations and quality levels so that no two motorcycles will be same. Each of our customers will have unique experience.
- Verdict : Neutral. After being in market for so many years, they are still not able to get the perfect combo right. But happy that they got KTM here and keep offering performance oriented products.

TVS:
- 10 years back, Today and 10 years later : We will offer products keeping our Racing DNA intact.
- Verdict : Happy. They keep churning out good products for enthusiasts eg. Ntorq and Apache keeping quality levels consistent.

ROYAL ENFIELD :
- 10 years back, Today and 10 years later: We will keep churning out food products with added focus on quality improvements.
- Verdict - Happy. Though they have fans, haters and competitors looking down upon them ; they silently keep rolling out newer products. If bikes like Interceptor is an example of how the future products will be, then RE will certainly have great future.

Yamaha AND SUZUKI motorcycles:
- 10 years back, Today and 10 years later: We are satisfied with what we are offering.
- Verdict : Happy. They have their own set of buyers and managed to keep them happy.
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