BMW and the Kidney grille - Is a radical design change needed?

petrol_power · 2nd April 2020, 17:45

BMW Kidney grilles - is an iconic grille design which has been with BMW as long as I remember. But is it curtailing the creativity of design engineers? It may be good to have a design language for a company, but does it make sense to adopt that same design language from birth till death of that company? Doesn't it require a break?

Why fix if ain't broken - its already broken - BMW is no more the leader in luxury segment in India. Mercedes has leaped ahead and definitely one of its major reason would be the fresh design it adopted and keep on making it better.

Mercedes has played with all sorts of design languages - multiple grilles, round/twin/oval head lamps. Is it the grille which has made designers/management not to go for a radical design change for BMW? BMW has done a few changes - full circle corona ring has been modified now, but it still remains semi-circle/quarter circle or similar.

Look at the way Lexus has evolved. And saying that people need a conservative timeless design is not acceptable as the people in this segment would not be worried to change their car in 3-4 years time span. Timeless design is required only if customer can't afford to change the car for the next 10 years!

I was looking at the recent M8 photos, in which the engineers have been able to create differentiation in the rear, but one look at the front - its again the same old kidney grille with minor variations.

Soon Millennials will get into the market and I am not sure how many of them would prefer conservative traditional non-offensive design against an aggressive radical exciting design.

is it the time for BMW to get a radical change in their design language?

I know that most in team-bhp would say not to change the design as they need the classic design theme. My question is for the future of BMW as a company, with the new young population coming in picture. Do they need a change to attract the new young customers?

McLaren Rulez · 2nd April 2020, 20:00

I doubt this has anything to do with catering to millenials, boomers or whatever other age group you consider.

It's just natural evolution of design and the grill has been the focus of recent design language in BMW, Lexus, Hyundai etc.

abhishek46 · 2nd April 2020, 21:22

A BMW without it's kidney grill is like an Eagle, without it's eyes.

That kidney grill, has been the center piece of great designs for the past several decades.
Does it really need to be replaced?
And, Replace with what? A slab of plastic from a tesla?

AMG Power · 2nd April 2020, 21:44

Depends. Would they be looking for a good car or a good grille?

If the car is good, the grille doesn't really matter and if the car is bad a good grille isn't going to help matters either.

--gKrish-- · 2nd April 2020, 22:21

It is also said that the new design trend was influenced by the consumers in the growing and currently largest market of BMW, where people prefer more funky and on the face looks for luxury cars. However, most people in other parts of the world do not find it appealing.

I do not know if this alone was the reason for BMW to adopt this design change, but the numbers and general trends do seem to support it. It is akin to Indian manufacturers going overboard with chrome treatment in cars due to the perception that Indians love chrome. It pleases some but not everyone.

Keeping the grill aside, BMW too have made radical changes in their design but they were across longer spans when compared to Mercedes or Lexus. Compare the E60 and the G30.

rahulcmoulee · 3rd April 2020, 08:54

The kidney grille symbolizes BMW. It forms the identity of the brand and can be instantly recognized. However, I feel that their designers have gone overboard with the size of the grille in recent years. It forms pretty much the entire front of the car and looks ghastly in my opinion.

Rather than getting rid of it all together, they just need to shrink it and make it a part of the front fascia and not the whole front fascia itself. If they make it pleasing to the eye, there is no need for them to ditch such an iconic design.

ajmat · 3rd April 2020, 09:30

Sometimes, you just get used to it, remember millions of people bought a Santro!

Doge · 3rd April 2020, 09:57

As a millennial I really don't see how is BMW "boring". In fact, to me they are often the most risk taking of all the Germans and have been so since the Chris Bangle era.

Look the BMW I series, the X6, the new 7 series. Clearly BMW is not afraid of being controversial.

In Europe most millennial still think that Mercedes is for the older demo graph and Audi and BMW certainly have more coolness point but who cares? Millennial are the most broke demo-graph, even in India where most young luxury car "buyers" are just freeloading their parents money.

Personally I don't like most modern BMW's as they are so over styled and deceiving, and just so loud and garish but one needs to understand why; BMW is doing the buck toothy grille for the Chinese market which loves that bling.

Regarding the kidney grille, it would be a big mistake to abandon that, few car makers have such an iconic and distinguishable design element like the kidneys and the new concepts show that BMW has a few tricks up its sleeve to adapt them for the future.

PrideRed · 3rd April 2020, 13:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajmat

Sometimes, you just get used to it, remember millions of people bought a Santro!

What's worse, people bought Qualis! I recently saw X7 upclose and found the grille decent.

GTO · 3rd April 2020, 13:55

Voted yes, but the radical change that is needed is for them to switch back to regular kidneys! The new oversized grille theme is killing their aesthetics, so much so that the press department is actually hiding the ugly grill (link to post). Mercedes' design resurgence has put BMW on the back foot and the company is running in circles like a headless chicken (styling-wise).

Venkatesh · 25th April 2020, 18:53

Found a related article.
BMW Kidney Grille's Evolution Over 87 Years.

BMW and the Kidney grille - Is a radical design change needed?-smartselect_20200425185056_chrome.jpg

BMW and the Kidney grille - Is a radical design change needed?-smartselect_20200425184941_chrome.jpg

BMW and the Kidney grille - Is a radical design change needed?-smartselect_20200425185004_chrome.jpg

BMW and the Kidney grille - Is a radical design change needed?-smartselect_20200425185119_chrome.jpg

https://www.motor1.com/news/414634/b...ign-evolution/

VKumar · 26th April 2020, 11:21

What separates a BMW from Audi and Mercedes is that front end, no matter if it is under sized or over sized, those Kidney grille make the BMW cars look really mean and add an sporty air to them.

So, shape them right and let them stay where they are. Don't mix the upper grille with lower air dam - and let the Kidneys keep flouting the logo on the top of them.

Personification here, but those grilles and that logo placed right in center is like a crown with the main ornament; sitting right in the center and the top of it, for me.

1.2TSI7DSG · 26th April 2020, 12:27

The leading question really to answer is how do you identify a BMW? Unlike Mercedes whose identity is the 3 pointed star, BMW's answer will be the kidney grill. BMW never made popular their blue and white logo. Hence like some beauties insuring their vital assets, the kidney grill is BMW's vital asset.

Asish_VK · 26th April 2020, 12:50

Radical changes or removing kidney grills won't help, making it more pleasing to eyes will certainly do.

Kidney grill on a BMW is it's identity. Just make it beautiful again like Alfa Romeo did it recently.

hareshjethwani · 26th April 2020, 13:04

I wonder sometimes if brands do something out of the way like this for the people to actually talk about the brand. Like how this thread has come up. Either way people eventually accept it or grow on it. I know it might hit the sales chart but would a manufacturer take such a big risk? Would like to know your thoughts on this.

View Poll Results: Radical design change required in BMW? At-least a change in their kidney grille?
Yes	184	51.40%
No	174	48.60%
Voters: 358. You may not vote on this poll

2nd April 2020, 17:45	#1
petrol_power BHPian Join Date: Oct 2015 Location: Kochi Posts: 267 Thanked: 644 Times View My Garage	BMW and the Kidney grille - Is a radical design change needed? BMW Kidney grilles - is an iconic grille design which has been with BMW as long as I remember. But is it curtailing the creativity of design engineers? It may be good to have a design language for a company, but does it make sense to adopt that same design language from birth till death of that company? Doesn't it require a break? Why fix if ain't broken - its already broken - BMW is no more the leader in luxury segment in India. Mercedes has leaped ahead and definitely one of its major reason would be the fresh design it adopted and keep on making it better. Mercedes has played with all sorts of design languages - multiple grilles, round/twin/oval head lamps. Is it the grille which has made designers/management not to go for a radical design change for BMW? BMW has done a few changes - full circle corona ring has been modified now, but it still remains semi-circle/quarter circle or similar. Look at the way Lexus has evolved. And saying that people need a conservative timeless design is not acceptable as the people in this segment would not be worried to change their car in 3-4 years time span. Timeless design is required only if customer can't afford to change the car for the next 10 years! I was looking at the recent M8 photos, in which the engineers have been able to create differentiation in the rear, but one look at the front - its again the same old kidney grille with minor variations. Soon Millennials will get into the market and I am not sure how many of them would prefer conservative traditional non-offensive design against an aggressive radical exciting design. is it the time for BMW to get a radical change in their design language? I know that most in team-bhp would say not to change the design as they need the classic design theme. My question is for the future of BMW as a company, with the new young population coming in picture. Do they need a change to attract the new young customers?
	(7) Thanks

2nd April 2020, 20:00	#2
McLaren Rulez Senior - BHPian Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Mysore Posts: 3,390 Thanked: 5,107 Times	re: BMW and the Kidney grille - Is a radical design change needed? I doubt this has anything to do with catering to millenials, boomers or whatever other age group you consider. It's just natural evolution of design and the grill has been the focus of recent design language in BMW, Lexus, Hyundai etc.
	(4) Thanks

2nd April 2020, 21:22	#3
abhishek46 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Bangalore Posts: 1,813 Thanked: 5,864 Times	re: BMW and the Kidney grille - Is a radical design change needed? A BMW without it's kidney grill is like an Eagle, without it's eyes. That kidney grill, has been the center piece of great designs for the past several decades. Does it really need to be replaced? And, Replace with what? A slab of plastic from a tesla?
	(6) Thanks

2nd April 2020, 21:44	#4
AMG Power Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2017 Location: BLR Posts: 1,065 Thanked: 7,037 Times	re: BMW and the Kidney grille - Is a radical design change needed? Depends. Would they be looking for a good car or a good grille? If the car is good, the grille doesn't really matter and if the car is bad a good grille isn't going to help matters either. Last edited by AMG Power : 2nd April 2020 at 21:56.
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2nd April 2020, 22:21	#5
--gKrish-- BHPian Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: Saxony<>TVM Posts: 239 Thanked: 653 Times	re: BMW and the Kidney grille - Is a radical design change needed? It is also said that the new design trend was influenced by the consumers in the growing and currently largest market of BMW, where people prefer more funky and on the face looks for luxury cars. However, most people in other parts of the world do not find it appealing. I do not know if this alone was the reason for BMW to adopt this design change, but the numbers and general trends do seem to support it. It is akin to Indian manufacturers going overboard with chrome treatment in cars due to the perception that Indians love chrome. It pleases some but not everyone. Keeping the grill aside, BMW too have made radical changes in their design but they were across longer spans when compared to Mercedes or Lexus. Compare the E60 and the G30. Last edited by --gKrish-- : 2nd April 2020 at 22:32. Reason: Adding content
	(1) Thanks

3rd April 2020, 08:54	#6
rahulcmoulee BHPian Join Date: Feb 2020 Location: Bengaluru Posts: 297 Thanked: 964 Times View My Garage	re: BMW and the Kidney grille - Is a radical design change needed? The kidney grille symbolizes BMW. It forms the identity of the brand and can be instantly recognized. However, I feel that their designers have gone overboard with the size of the grille in recent years. It forms pretty much the entire front of the car and looks ghastly in my opinion. Rather than getting rid of it all together, they just need to shrink it and make it a part of the front fascia and not the whole front fascia itself. If they make it pleasing to the eye, there is no need for them to ditch such an iconic design. Last edited by suhaas307 : 24th May 2020 at 12:47. Reason: Spacing
	() Thanks

3rd April 2020, 09:30	#7
ajmat Team-BHP Support Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Bangalore Posts: 14,865 Thanked: 27,978 Times View My Garage	re: BMW and the Kidney grille - Is a radical design change needed? Sometimes, you just get used to it, remember millions of people bought a Santro!
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3rd April 2020, 09:57	#8
Doge BHPian Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: NCR/Turin Posts: 639 Thanked: 1,534 Times	re: BMW and the Kidney grille - Is a radical design change needed? As a millennial I really don't see how is BMW "boring". In fact, to me they are often the most risk taking of all the Germans and have been so since the Chris Bangle era. Look the BMW I series, the X6, the new 7 series. Clearly BMW is not afraid of being controversial. In Europe most millennial still think that Mercedes is for the older demo graph and Audi and BMW certainly have more coolness point but who cares? Millennial are the most broke demo-graph, even in India where most young luxury car "buyers" are just freeloading their parents money. Personally I don't like most modern BMW's as they are so over styled and deceiving, and just so loud and garish but one needs to understand why; BMW is doing the buck toothy grille for the Chinese market which loves that bling. Regarding the kidney grille, it would be a big mistake to abandon that, few car makers have such an iconic and distinguishable design element like the kidneys and the new concepts show that BMW has a few tricks up its sleeve to adapt them for the future. Last edited by suhaas307 : 24th May 2020 at 12:47. Reason: Spacing and formatting
	(2) Thanks

3rd April 2020, 13:55	#10
GTO Team-BHP Support Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Bombay Posts: 70,546 Thanked: 300,763 Times View My Garage	Re: BMW and the Kidney grille - Is a radical design change needed? Voted yes, but the radical change that is needed is for them to switch back to regular kidneys! The new oversized grille theme is killing their aesthetics, so much so that the press department is actually hiding the ugly grill (link to post). Mercedes' design resurgence has put BMW on the back foot and the company is running in circles like a headless chicken (styling-wise).
	(25) Thanks

25th April 2020, 18:53	#11
Venkatesh Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2020 Location: Hyderabad Posts: 8,292 Thanked: 43,830 Times	Re: BMW and the Kidney grille - Is a radical design change needed? Found a related article. BMW Kidney Grille's Evolution Over 87 Years. https://www.motor1.com/news/414634/b...ign-evolution/
	(20) Thanks

26th April 2020, 11:21	#12
VKumar BANNED Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: Dehradun Posts: 948 Thanked: 8,332 Times	Re: BMW and the Kidney grille - Is a radical design change needed? What separates a BMW from Audi and Mercedes is that front end, no matter if it is under sized or over sized, those Kidney grille make the BMW cars look really mean and add an sporty air to them. So, shape them right and let them stay where they are. Don't mix the upper grille with lower air dam - and let the Kidneys keep flouting the logo on the top of them. Personification here, but those grilles and that logo placed right in center is like a crown with the main ornament; sitting right in the center and the top of it, for me.
	(2) Thanks

26th April 2020, 12:27	#13
1.2TSI7DSG BHPian Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: MH01/TS09 Posts: 697 Thanked: 1,760 Times	Re: BMW and the Kidney grille - Is a radical design change needed? The leading question really to answer is how do you identify a BMW? Unlike Mercedes whose identity is the 3 pointed star, BMW's answer will be the kidney grill. BMW never made popular their blue and white logo. Hence like some beauties insuring their vital assets, the kidney grill is BMW's vital asset.
	(2) Thanks

26th April 2020, 12:50	#14
Asish_VK BHPian Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Bangalore-Kochi Posts: 537 Thanked: 2,314 Times	Re: BMW and the Kidney grille - Is a radical design change needed? Radical changes or removing kidney grills won't help, making it more pleasing to eyes will certainly do. Kidney grill on a BMW is it's identity. Just make it beautiful again like Alfa Romeo did it recently.
	() Thanks

26th April 2020, 13:04	#15
hareshjethwani BHPian Join Date: Apr 2020 Location: Chennai Posts: 148 Thanked: 415 Times	Re: BMW and the Kidney grille - Is a radical design change needed? I wonder sometimes if brands do something out of the way like this for the people to actually talk about the brand. Like how this thread has come up. Either way people eventually accept it or grow on it. I know it might hit the sales chart but would a manufacturer take such a big risk? Would like to know your thoughts on this.
	(1) Thanks