[Stribog]

Originally Posted by Storm2.0

I feel sad for TATA. I know this car will to die a slow death because of our nitpicking. It's better TATA stops
wasting money on so much of R and D. Instead they should just focus on adding excess of bling to the their existing car, add a big 15" touchscreen because no one cares about your car's robustness and safety aspects. Launch a flimsy car with lot of gizmos, price it less and it will sell like hot cakes.

We are brand conscious people and we will readily throw our money on overpriced VAG cars.

Disagree. Just look at any ownership review and anyone who has approached Tata will have horror stories upon horror stories to tell. The Tiago in our front page is an example.

I myself was desperate to book a Harrier, this was the pre facelift Avatar. I called the dealer 3 times for a TD, no luck. Then booked it on Tata webpage, and a day later it was fixed. Compare this to Creta / Seltos (this was in Oct 2019), I just called the showroom and they started badgering me to take a test drive. Kia even drove 15 kms and gave me a 30 min TD (the branch was near my home and far from office)

The vehicle itself, Tata got had horrible clutch release, I felt like I was going to grow Arnold Schwarzenegger level thighs just from driving the manual. The engine (140hp one) was as sluggish as I am when I am woken up at 7AM, for my size the ORVM were not blind spots but blinddddd spots, my family didn't like that there was no sunroof.

I still gave Tata a chance, booked a TD with another dealer and same clutch issue and sluggishness. Asked the SA if this is because it was a TD car or this was how it was.

He promised to check and set up a newer TD car the next day.

6 months later am still waiting for his call.

Kia? I was offered a TD in my office, told the SA I needed to let me family see it, he took my advice and had another TD car sent at 9 PM (that's when I returned that day), gave me all the specs, said that there was a cancellation and he can get instant delivery.

5 days after TD I was driving my own car.

He is still in touch with me.

TaMo has horrific issues,

1) quality and thirst of their SA for business is govt office level

2) their products are refined now yes but they always have a lackluster package (some features missing, some poorly put together) which does come into play.

I for one would love to own a Tamo car, visually they are stunning, offer 5* NCAP ratings, if only they will get other things right.

[Storm2.0]

Originally Posted by Stribog

Disagree. Just look at any ownership review and anyone who has approached Tata will have horror stories upon horror stories to tell. The Tiago in our front page is an example.
.

That's what, if they are so bad at it and not able to satisfy potential buyers' request then it's better that they shut their shop and invest somewhere else.
But I don't understand the partiality towards VAG dealers here (especially Skoda and Volkswagen here) . Even though their sales and service is a mixed bag, people still go gaga over their cars, praise about it all day and are even ready to spend upto 40-50lakhs for it. Even though their cars are not very mechnically robust, does anyone even care?

[Candy$Cars]

Originally Posted by fhdowntheline

Its difficult to justify the difference of nearly 10 lac Rs between the Nexon and the Harrier in terms of utility, except for the engine and a few more airbags.

No offence but you have got to be kidding with that statement of yours. Seems like you have either not experienced the Harrier or the Nexon or both. First of all the Nexon Diesel Top-end MT retails at approx 14lacs on-road Delhi which is about 8 lacs less than the Harrier Top-end MT.
With the price difference, you get a much bigger vehicle, much better looking vehicle, acres of space inside, bigger boot, a panoramic sunroof, some extra features, loads of safety features (that none of the competition can match),
better ride and then as you said, bigger engine and more airbags.

Infact, I cannot think of any competiton near the Harrier that justifies its price like the Harrier does. The Seltos and Creta already cross 20 lacs on-road Delhi and feel overpriced and now with Crazy Driver's compilation of Hyundai issues, one definitely needs to think twice plonking 20lacs on them. Please don't counter by mentioning niggles with the Harrier as all of them had been ironed out by November last year and anyone buying one today will not be facing any of them.

Also, by that logic of yours, the Creta cannot justify its premium vis-a-vis say the Grandi10 or elite i20, T-roc cannot justify its premium compared to a Polo, a Kicks compared to a Micra, a Tucson compared to a Creta, A civic compared to a Amaze as all of them only offer a bigger engine and more airbags(sometimes the no. of airbags are also the same) as you have very conveniently left out all other attributed when justifying the premium.

[mobydick1983]

Does Tata have any plans for a new 'Sumo'?

[fhdowntheline]

Originally Posted by Candy$Cars

No offence but you have got to be kidding with that statement of yours. Seems like you have either not experienced the Harrier or the Nexon or both. First of all the Nexon Diesel Top-end MT retails at approx 14lacs on-road Delhi which is about 8 lacs less than the Harrier Top-end MT.
With the price difference, you get a much bigger vehicle, much better looking vehicle, acres of space inside, bigger boot, a panoramic sunroof, some extra features, loads of safety features (that none of the competition can match),
better ride and then as you said, bigger engine and more airbags.
.

My logic is as follows:
1) Nexon is a 2wd Compact SUV while Harrier is a 2wd mid size SUV.
2) From an every day usage stand point, both Nexon and Harrier are able to cover near similar road conditions. Yes , Harrier has some ESP tricks, but lets keep them aside.
3) Both seat 4 adults in decent comfort. Harrier may have more width for 3 adults in the rear ( which is not a deal maker/ breaker for most urban families today)
4) The relative utility value of Harriers 425 litre boot is not significantly more than Nexons 350 ltrs, inspite of the Harrier being over half- metre longer . In that sense, you feel that more boot space could have been carved out. If XUV5OO( 5 seat config), Tiguan, Tucson can give more boot space with same or slightly lesser body length, without compromising on cabin space, thats a bit odd.
5) Nexon has a 44 ltr fuel tank vs Harriers 50 ltr. Even the smaller Polo gets 45 ltr tank. Equivalent sized XUV5OO gets 70 ltrs.
6) All variants of Nexon and Harrier get atleast 2 airbags , ABS EBD and ESP as standard. Neither get all disc brakes , which is especially a miss for the larger, heavier Harrier
7) Nexon 1.5 diesel is sufficiently powerful for its size.
8) Save for screen size, Nexon infotainment system is nearly equivalent to the Harrier system.
9) Both Nexon and Harrier are reputed fo have good build quality. Nexon has been GNCAP rated, the Harrier , not yet.
10) Both Nexon and Harrier have sunroof options available in their higher trims.

The main advantage of the Harrier is its shape, which is a subjective issue.
For 17- 22 lac, there should have been XM and XT/ XZ versions of Harrier with AWD to make it a standout proposition.

[diwakarmuthu]

I honestly think this is not a direction I want Tata to take. Hexa, Nexon, Harrier and Altorz should remain the focus for the near term. Thinking about taking a pie of Ertiga base is something that may not work

In a post COVID world, the focus will be on the experience factor and much more focus is required from TATA focusing on the product and customer. The niggles and quality issues are well documented in this forum, if focus can be provided in the right direction, then the current portfolio will bring in the required numbers.

[Centodieci]

Originally Posted by Stribog

Disagree. Just look at any ownership review and anyone who has approached Tata will have horror stories upon horror stories to tell. The Tiago in our front page is an example.

I myself was desperate to book a Harrier, this was the pre facelift Avatar. I called the dealer 3 times for a TD, no luck. Then booked it on Tata webpage, and a day later it was fixed. Compare this to Creta / Seltos (this was in Oct 2019), I just called the showroom and they started badgering me to take a test drive. Kia even drove 15 kms and gave me a 30 min TD (the branch was near my home and far from office)

The vehicle itself, Tata got had horrible clutch release, I felt like I was going to grow Arnold Schwarzenegger level thighs just from driving the manual. The engine (140hp one) was as sluggish as I am when I am woken up at 7AM, for my size the ORVM were not blind spots but blinddddd spots, my family didn't like that there was no sunroof.

I still gave Tata a chance, booked a TD with another dealer and same clutch issue and sluggishness. Asked the SA if this is because it was a TD car or this was how it was.

He promised to check and set up a newer TD car the next day.

6 months later am still waiting for his call.

Kia? I was offered a TD in my office, told the SA I needed to let me family see it, he took my advice and had another TD car sent at 9 PM (that's when I returned that day), gave me all the specs, said that there was a cancellation and he can get instant delivery.

5 days after TD I was driving my own car.

He is still in touch with me.

TaMo has horrific issues,

1) quality and thirst of their SA for business is govt office level

2) their products are refined now yes but they always have a lackluster package (some features missing, some poorly put together) which does come into play.

I for one would love to own a Tamo car, visually they are stunning, offer 5* NCAP ratings, if only they will get other things right.

I would like to politely share my experience which was in contrast to this. I had booked a Nexon XZ plus petrol MT in my hometown. The sales advisor was very polite and cooperative. He obliged with my request for a long test drive and I ended up testing Nexon over 35 kms in highway as well as city roads. He also took me to stockyard before booking and gave me an option to book whichever model I liked.

After a few days, due to some unavoidable reasons, I had to cancel the booking. I contacted both dealer and customer care division of Tata motors for refund of my booking amount. Not only did Tata Motors ask dealer to refund 100 percent of amount but also gave me the number of territorial sales advisor of my state in case of any issues. The amount was transferred within a day through NEFT.

During same time, I visited Hyundai to take TD of Verna. Car was good but TD offered was for 2 kilometers. Later when I mentioned to SA that I am going to take some time to decide over payment of booking amount, he had the audacity to tell me that I wasted his Sunday. All of this communication was over Whatsapp which I mailed to Hyundai as well but didn't get any reply.

Sorry for the long post which might be a bit off topic but in my opinion Tata is gradually improving its customer service.

[ram87pune]

Originally Posted by RavenAvi

Tata's next big project - after Hornbill's launch - will be the Ertiga/Marazzo rival MPV. To be built on the ALFA platform, the MPV might be offered in two flexible seating configurations.

Hello RavenAvi. Just confirmed from my sources that this news is completely false in the sense that these 3 vehicles have not advanced beyond the drawing board stage.

The Peregrine sedan which was supposed to be the sedan version of the Altroz to rival the City was indeed under initial development when Tata was readying the Altroz hatchback, but this project is on hold as of now and also no Ertiga rivalling MPV is under development either. Forget about this festive season as of today there are almost nil chances of test mules being on the road for the next couple of years atleast.

The reason being that Tata has been hit hard by the COVID-19 pandemic just like every other manufacturer and they do not have funds for any future projects.

As of today Tata's future product pipeline is as follows

1. Gravitas- Media drives around diwali and launch in January 2021.

2. Hornbill - Launch may get pushed towards early 2021.

3. Hexa BS6 - Launch is likely in the 2nd quarter of 2021.

In the meantime Tata will launch some updated versions of their current portfolio but after the launch of the Hornbill and the Gravitas Tata's product pipeline is going to be dry for the next couple of years atleast I.e. for all new product launches.

Will keep the bhpians updated as and when I receive any new info regarding the same.

[motorworks]

Originally Posted by ram87pune

Hello RavenAvi. Just confirmed from my sources that this news is completely false in the sense that these 3 vehicles have not advanced beyond the drawing board stage.

This does make sense. From a pure financial view, there is no merit in signing off new vehicles when the most recent launches have not delivered.

Tata would not have met even their lowest expectation for the Harrier. And the Altroz is not having it easy since it just launched before the COVID pandemic began. The only two cars that are bringing reasonable numbers are the Tiago and the Nexon and even they are expected to be slow for the next one year.

The Gravitas is not going to be big on sales numbers since its anyway a 25+ lakh vehicle and the segment itself is very small. Tata need to somehow make their existing cars do better, especially the Altroz, which is brand new and it has to deliver quickly else it would be easily forgotten. And its got massive competition coming up in the form of the new i20, which may be delayed now, but sure to be here in the next 6-10 months.

Also, their other capable cars such as the Tigor need to be marketed better. And Im not sure why the Hexa BS6 is nearly one year away? Shouldnt the priority have been to upgrade the Hexa since it was anyway losing numbers? Will customers think of the Hexa one year later? All the brand equity that they have generated over the last few years on this capable car would be forgotten if they keep this off the market for such a long time.

Lastly, Tata is going to be late to this MPV party anyway, I say late because Hyundai has already made firm plans in this segment and we all know how aggressive Hyundai is when launching new cars, with regard to timelines. So Tata should avoid this segment and rather focus on the Hornbill and probably getting the Harrier to actually sell. Even if it means slashing prices and bringing it at par with the Creta and Seltos, they must make an attempt. Else it would become irrelevant in a very short time.

[padmrajravi]

If they want an MPV so badly, they should be concentrating on upgrading Hexa to BS6 as soon as possible. It has been 10 years since Aria platform was launched. All the assembly line costs would have been depreciated or written off in their books by now. That means they can price Hexa even below Harrier and still have hopes of recovering the costs of BS6 conversion. Then in about 2-3 years time, they can retire Hexa and replace it with some omega architecture launch.

That said, I think at this point there is very little chance of Hexa coming back.

[ihrishi]

Originally Posted by Centodieci

I would like to politely share my experience which was in contrast to this.
Sorry for the long post which might be a bit off topic but in my opinion Tata is gradually improving its customer service.

I would like to second this. I had a long buying experience due to the lockdown.
While I had booked the Harrier in Feb, I am just about to get delivery in the coming week.
Throughout this time the sales advisor has been in touch with the latest updates and also arranged for a couple of test drives at home.

Absolutely no complaints.

[swarnava.ch]

Originally Posted by ram87pune

Will keep the bhpians updated as and when I receive any new info regarding the same.

Dear Ram,
Thanks a lot for this update. This looks more logical and financially sound.
I had one request, if you can check any update on the Altroz Petrol Automatic and any tentative dates to be shared would be great.

Tata Motors has good potential with Altroz, Nexon and Harrier (+ Gravitas) and I feel they should capitalize on the same with providing more options and frequent updates.
For example there is a lot fo scope for Automatics in the Altroz.
7 Seater Gravitas, if priced right with some blong will be a good option in the 15 - 18 Lakhs SUV segment.
Lastly an Updated Hexa with Auto and 4*4 will be a dream come true for me.
I would be happy to trade in my current Hexa 4*2 Manual.

Also another point on the Showroom experience.
I agree there is a lot of scope of improvement compared to Hyundai or Maruti however I feel slowly things are changing for the good.
I personally had a great experience and there was multiple follow-ups by the SA Team.

[KMT]

Their PV division is already doing so well that they were trying to flog it to the Chinese, now that pipe dream is on hold.

Therefore I find this amusing, that when they cant sell existing products they have in their portfolio, they are now trying further to expand their portfolio.

Tata Motors shareholders are a patient lot, lets see how much money they will burn with this effort.

I am waiting to see any one sales super hit from this stable.

Nexon and Tigor are their best bets I reckon, why dont they get their sales and marketing to set their sales charts on fire with these two before trying to compete with segment leader Maruti in the Small MPV space.

[safari_lover]

When it comes to a MUV/MPV, I don't understand why Tata hasn't come up with a replacement for the Sumo. Can't they build a passenger variant of the Yodha pickup and pit it against the Bolero?

[da_lowrider]

Originally Posted by safari_lover

When it comes to a MUV/MPV, I don't understand why Tata hasn't come up with a replacement for the Sumo. Can't they build a passenger variant of the Yodha pickup and pit it against the Bolero?

They did kind of do that, right? That's pretty much what the Sumo Grande was but it didn't quite work.

Even this, if they can't get it to the market before the rumoured Hyundai MPV then it's going to be an uphill battle for them. It's one thing trying to enter a segment with only 2 competitors - even if one of them's a Maruti Suzuki, with more strong competition it's going to be an even harder proposition for them to find a hook - unfortunately for TM, safety doesn't seem to be as strong a hook as one would expect, neither as it turns out are things like handling. They'll have to figure out a value proposition.

It's going to get harder and harder for TM to justify development costs without sustainable sales, they could have done with an arrangement similar to the Ford Mahindra one as it has the potential to atleast keep the cash flow situation on if the other partner can move enough product in overseas markets where they have a stronghold, unfortunately I don't thing there are any such potential tie-ups left to be made in the Indian auto scene for TM - unless they swing something with one of the French companies.