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Old 15th October 2020, 18:37   #136
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Default Re: Incentives that service advisors receive for upselling you unnecessary add-ons

Mostly the water we buy for batteries from petrol stations are DM water processed through multiple filtration, I don't think they are heated, the steam captured and allowed to cool in a different container. If we want that, we may have to buy medical quality (injection) distilled water.

I have been regularly buying this brand of distilled water (photos attached) from Shell station for my inverter and car batteries, for the past ten years. Read the label closely. I have photographed a bottle I have in stock.
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Old 15th October 2020, 18:46   #137
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Jeroen, in your garage of elder vehicles, how many have a top-it-up radiator cap, and how many have a reservoir closed system? I suspect that this transition is, somehow, key in the question of coolants. I also suspect that changing materials for engine blocks has changed the coolant requirements. As an engineer, what do you think of that?

Remembering back to "radiator-cap" systems, It seems to me that they gave a lot more trouble. It might be my imagination, but over-heating seemed to be more regular. Leakage and replacement of radiators and parts seemed to occur more regularly, and almost everyone could speak of replacing stuck thermostats. Add-ins to seal leaks were on sale; others used "traditional methods," which, if I remember correctly, included adding mustard power!

Our modern coolant systems have become much more reliable and trouble free (mind you, so have cars generally) and if using purer (distilled water) coolant is part of that, then I'm not complaining!

Love the Model-T manual

(I'm sorry, this is definitely off topic now.)

Last edited by Thad E Ginathom : 15th October 2020 at 18:48.
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Old 15th October 2020, 18:49   #138
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^^ Till about the early -mid 90's I used to see many roadside exclusive "Radiator repair" shops at many places. They are a thing of the past now, I don't see any.
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Old 15th October 2020, 22:27   #139
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Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
Jeroen, in your garage of elder vehicles, how many have a top-it-up radiator cap, and how many have a reservoir closed system? I suspect that this transition is, somehow, key in the question of coolants. I also suspect that changing materials for engine blocks has changed the coolant requirements. As an engineer, what do you think of that?

Remembering back to "radiator-cap" systems, It seems to me that they gave a lot more trouble. It might be my imagination, but over-heating seemed to be more regular. Leakage and replacement of radiators and parts seemed to occur more regularly, and almost everyone could speak of replacing stuck thermostats. Add-ins to seal leaks were on sale; others used "traditional methods," which, if I remember correctly, included adding mustard power!

Our modern coolant systems have become much more reliable and trouble free (mind you, so have cars generally) and if using purer (distilled water) coolant is part of that, then I'm not complaining!
Hi Thad, they are all closed systems. Yes, the materials used on engines have definitely moved on. It is one of the reasons there are different coolants. To my earlier point, using the incorrect coolant can cause damage to multiple engine and coolant system component.

Overheating was definitely a big thing in those days. Except of course if you had an air cooled engine (e.g. various VW up to the K70 model). Part of that was no doubt to the use of simple tap water. Radiator clogs up, reduces its capacity and the engine overheats.

On the upside, in those days engine tended to be a bit more forgiven for misuse. So an overheated engine just got topped up and you were good to good. Nowadays you might have a cracked head, damaged head gasket etc.

To quote from the T-ford manual:

Quote:
What should be done when the Radiator overheats? Answer No. 38
Keep the radiator full. Don't get alarmed if it boils occasionally---especially in driving through mud and deep sand or up long hills in extremely warm weather. Remember that the engine develops the greatest efficiency when the water is heated nearly to the boiling point. But if there is persistent overheating when the motor is working under ordinary conditions---find the cause of the trouble and remedy it. The chances are that the difficulty lies in improper driving or carbonized cylinders. By reference to the proper division of this book each of the causes which contribute to an overheated radiator is treated and remedies suggested. No trouble can result from the filling of a heated radiator with cold water---providing the water system is not entirely empty---in which case he motor should be allowed to cool before the cold water is introduced.
Please do not follow these instruction for anything but an original T-Ford. Treating any coolant system like this on any car post WW2 is likely to get you into trouble!

Jeroen
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Old 15th October 2020, 23:31   #140
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Please do not follow these instruction for anything but an original T-Ford. Treating any coolant system like this on any car post WW2 is likely to get you into trouble!
Learned the hard way that one does not simply remove the radiator cap of an overheating engine. Thank goodness I was not leaning over it.
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Old 16th October 2020, 03:13   #141
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^^ Till about the early -mid 90's I used to see many roadside exclusive "Radiator repair" shops at many places. They are a thing of the past now, I don't see any.
GP road has several of them and they keep getting cabbies and old car owners who have been topping tap water into less and less remaining coolant and finally end up with a clogged radiator.

Nearly needed the services of one such guy for my fatherís old Alto that had been rather less maintained than his regular trips to a Maruti service centre would seemingly indicate.

Of course the trips may have fallen off in frequency as he got older and more ill but still I would have expected service centre staff not to top coolant tanks off with water each time so that the reservoir was full but a very pale green instead of the typical dark green of Maruti coolant.
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Old 17th October 2020, 09:02   #142
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I don't think any MASS ever fills plain water. Given the slightest chance, they fill up coolant mix even if the space available is as low as 100 ml, and charge us for a certain minimum quantity (250 ml) in the service bill. At least that is what MSM does, and also ABT, though I don't service there. But my nephew did.

What MSM uses is a brand called Golden Cruiser, which is a paler green in color. In my experience for the past eleven years, I have never actually had to top up coolant even once, as my car runs just about 5k KM a year. But they drain and change the coolant during every alternate annual service, and don't suggest flushing. During the next annual service, the coolant level will be only slightly below the max mark. But it will be topped up and and I will find a charge for it in the bill, but I let it go.

In fact I bought a can of Shell pre mix coolant when I started making Trichy trips after my son joined NIT, but never had to use it. It is till in the car, unopened.
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Old 17th October 2020, 09:07   #143
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What MSM uses is a brand called Golden Cruiser, which is a paler green in color.
Golden Cruiser is one of the oldest Indian coolant brands and is an oem for Hyundai as well. But it is a concentrate not premix. So I guess Maruti will top it with whatever water they have, probably from a Bisleri can.

I have a couple of litres of their red coolant in my cupboard for an upcoming coolant drain and change in my Scorpio.
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Old 17th October 2020, 15:30   #144
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Sure. They dilute it with packaged drinking water only. But still it is a paler green than some other brands after dilution. I don't think they will use more water than what is recommended. Whether we dilute it or it is a premix, the ratio will be same. They mix and keep it in containers for ready filling. They don't mix in our presence. I have never had any radiator issue till date, nor have I heard any of my friends who are regulars there complain.

The Shell premix coolant I bought is a darker green in color.

But they did tell me only same color coolant should be added. That we can change to whatever color coolant we want, provided we flush out all the existing coolant completely before filling the new one. A radiator flush will not be necessary otherwise, if the coolant level is regularly maintained, and it is changed once in two years.
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Old 17th October 2020, 17:55   #145
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The colour is not the issue as much as the acid / phosphate etc mix in the coolant. OAT, HOAT, Multi OAT (which several more modern coolants are, so they are compatible across a number of cars) ..

https://www.valvoline.com/our-produc...engine-coolant

The colour is a rough rule of thumb basically. Good advice would be not to mix two separate brands of coolant regardless if they are generic green coolant 1 and generic green coolant 2.

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The Shell premix coolant I bought is a darker green in color.

But they did tell me only same color coolant should be added. That we can change to whatever color coolant we want, provided we flush out all the existing coolant completely before filling the new one. A radiator flush will not be necessary otherwise, if the coolant level is regularly maintained, and it is changed once in two years.
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Old 17th October 2020, 22:03   #146
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QUOTE=sandeepmohan;4907648]

I don't think sludging/scaling would develop in radiator due to heat, traffic or humidity which would make radiator flushing necessary. I am open to correct myself if I am wrong.
I again read the manual of my car and it says the following about engine overheating:

"Insufficient coolant in the cooling system or dirt/scales having accumulated inside the cooling water passages especially in the radiator core."

It has mentioned other reasons as well but only posted the relevant one to point out that scaling may occur. Also it mentions about coolant flushing which is as follows:

"The cooling system should be completely drained and refilled with new coolant after every 40,000 kms or 2 years whichever is earlier. Flush the radiator by using reverse flow i.e. radiator drain plug to auxiliary tank with clean water and close the drain plugs."

It may not have mentioned radiator flush with radiator flushing liquid but I don't think there is any harm in using it as it works.
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