[deetjohn]

The Yaris in India is the byword for boring. I had written this about it when I had the misfortune to take one for a drive.

Originally Posted by deetjohn

For someone who appreciates the dynamics and build quality of the Vento, the Yaris really would not cut the mustard. What we get here is one of the most boring cars on sale today! You will literally fall asleep driving the petrol AT. A friend got one for his dad and we took it for a spin to a restaurant when it was new last year. There were 4 of us and I have never seen people giving up the driving seat as quickly as it happened that day. And none really wanted to drive it on the way back. That's never the case when we get a new car in the circle!

But, Toyota has now launched a new Yaris for the more fortunate markets. It is still a really compact hatchback, but the heart and soul of the car is anything but compact or small.

Get this, Toyota had to make it for WRC homologation, but they went full monty with it. Well, that's what happens when you employee one Mr. Tommi Makinen as your race chief. It 4 wheel drive and got a 3 pot 1.6L turbo engine which makes 257 bhp coupled with a 6 speed MT, and a carbon roof to keep the weight down. Apparantly Tommi got his way so much that there is not much this bespoke machine shares with the regular Yaris apart from its name.

Celebrate this magnificent bundle of joy with the amazing James Dennison from Car Magazine. He is the latest entrant in my list of favorite auto journos. And he means and talks business!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQNk8NevknI&

Now, this brings me to the question or the poll here. I for one long for a proper hatchback in our market. The GR Yaris equivalent in this side of the planet. At least in theory. Let me explain! The GR Yaris is priced at a premium, is compact and very driver focused - that comes with a lot of compromises. So, the target audience is very small! But, those who need one in their life wouldn't settle for anything else!

The parallel to that in our market will be a full size hatchback which is a proper drivers car with a potent petrol engine. The driver's car part is non negotiable! It's got to steer wonderfully, handle joyfully, ride okay and brake very well. Coupled with a 6MT & a torque converter 6AT. The latter is to widen its appeal a bit. And built well inside out. No need for fancy or rich material either - but everything should feel strong and be fitted properly.

And no need for vanity kit - big touchscreen or sunroof or digital dials or ventilated bottoms. A nice fabric seat can do the job. The idea is to save money on these, but not to dilute the driving aspects. I would prefer such a machine over a SUV or sedan. And I am willing to pay 13~15 lakhs for it - on the road. Is there a market for such a car here? Essentially, the GR Yaris for the Indian market - the car that shouldn't exist, but we are so glad it does exist.

No AWD either, front wheel drive will do. There are many FWD drivers cars out there. Ideally it should be a Focus or a Golf, but our insane tax structure wouldn't allow that. So, it can be the Fiesta or Polo or the City hatchback - the latest generations. The full size ones with 5 doors and not chopped to 4 meters though. Hopefully, the govt with scrap the stupid small car excise penalty soon to inject some enthusiasm into the market. That was the case till 2014 anyway. One can only hope!

The stereotyped Indian media paints a different picture, but I honestly believe there are many out there who would value such a car. Let me know! And please be honest - there is no judgement here, just curious. I can totally understand if the preference is for a Sonet or EcoSport or the City sedan instead of this. Let's find out!

[GTO]

Thread moved out from the Assembly Line (The "Assembly Line" Forum section) to the Indian Car Scene. Thanks for sharing!

Would have its fans & customers, albeit the market will be small. Would say the discounted Polo GTI for 19 lakhs was a good option for anyone desiring a potent hatchback.

Anyone who needs a little brand sheen - a weak name like Nissan or a newcomer like Citroen / Kia - should experiment with a hot hatchback. Will attract the enthusiast community toward them and add some allure to their nameplate.

[landcruiser123]

Well, yes I'd buy one if it was a secondary car. Just like how I'd get a Civic Type R (not a fan of the styling though).

Besides price, reasons why these cars might not sell much:
1. Stiffer suspension resulting in firmer ride
2. Expensive spare parts

That being said, a 4 door Civic Type R has more potential if launched at 28 lakhs ex-showroom rather than cars like the Yaris GRNM at 15 lakhs ex-showroom. I feel that Honda missed a trick by not introducing a special edition Jazz RS with the 1.5 i-VTEC engine.

Originally Posted by deetjohn

Hopefully, the govt with scrap the stupid small car excise penalty soon to inject some enthusiasm into the market. That was the case till 2014 anyway. One can only hope!

Indian sub 4 m rule was there before 2014;
https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/india...enefitted.html (10 years of the Small Car rule (<4-metre, <1.2L petrol, <1.5L diesel) : Has India benefitted?)

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by deetjohn

And I am willing to pay 13~15 lakhs for it - on the road. Is there a market for such a car here?

IMHO - No, even though we'd all like to pretend otherwise!

The Abarth Punto offered a 145hp turbo petrol motor, as against the 90hp diesel of the normal variant - had good build quality, was lowered than the regular variant and had stiffer suspension, all wheel disc brakes, hydraulic steering - and was a hoot to drive. Priced at 9.95 lakhs ex-showroom!

That was a GR Yaris as far as the performance-starved Indian market was concerned? But flopped as expected - because we expect our cars to be allrounders. At a 9.95 lakh price tag - it didn't have creature comforts like a sunroof, touchscreen audio etc. It sold 79 units in CY2019, 35 units in CY2018 - the whole definition of no market demand! Even among enthusiasts - it was deemed overpriced, whereas a year after it is discontinued - Hyundai has now breached 11 lakhs with the regular i20!

Though not a performance example - here is another very recent lifestyle example - the Thar. Mahindra has managed to package a 4 star rated offroader, with a 2.2 diesel engine, 4WD, Automatic transmission, ESP, hard-top etc with the basics covered like touchscreen infotainment, Cruise control etc - at 13.75 lakhs. But then again, there are quite a lot of comparisons drawn to cars like the Sonet for the features it offer at a slightly cheaper 12.99 lakhs. Thankfully though - this one is nothing but a flop!

Either ways - I guess the boat has sailed for getting a performance (>1.2 turbo petrol) variant within 13-15 lakhs. The normal Yaris tops out at 18 lakhs in Bangalore and going by the UK pricing - if the GR ever made it here - it would be 30+ even if not a CBU! i20N, if it makes it here, will be 18 to 20 now - considering the 13L pricing of the regular car. GTI was originally launched at 25.99 lakhs and will be 30+ again in the current scenario if it ever arrives - but that is unlikely as they had to resort to a 6 lakhs discount to dispose of the small 100 units planned. Octavia vRS is now priced in BMW territory!

For 13-15 lakhs on road, the best bet would be the 1.0 direct injection petrols or used cars like E90 series BMW 330i, Octavia 1.8 TSi etc.

[extreme_torque]

Originally Posted by deetjohn

The GR Yaris is priced at a premium, is compact and very driver focused - that comes with a lot of compromises. So, the target audience is very small! But, those who need one in their life wouldn't settle for anything else!

It is actually really very well priced for what is essentially a bespoke limited run homologation model with the most powerful 3 cylinder engine in the world and a trick 4 wheel drive. Toyota Australia had special pricing for the first 1000 of these cars for a drive away pricing of $39,990 or around 20 lakhs in Indian rupees which got taken in less than a week! For comparison a Golf R is over 60k dollars brand new. Infact a used 2015 Golf R with around 60l on the clock sells for $33k and this wasnt far off. If the COVID uncertainty wasnt there I would have got it for sure. I could kept it for a year and still sold it at almost the same price!

P.S. More astonishingly, the top end plain vanilla Yaris in Australia is an eye watering $33k!

[deetjohn]

Originally Posted by GTO

Anyone who needs a little brand sheen - a weak name like Nissan or a newcomer like Citroen / Kia - should experiment with a hot hatchback. Will attract the enthusiast community toward them and add some allure to their nameplate.

That's a very good point! +1

Originally Posted by landcruiser123

Indian sub 4 m rule was there before 2014[/url]

Yes, the rule was there before, but the excise duty was same for both small, chopped and regular cars in 2014. And the excise was hiked again in 2015. I know as we took the brunt of it when we bought the Fiesta in 2015. With the current economic scenario, this might be a good time to bring back that normalization again or better still - scrap this stupid small car rule once and for all.

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

Either ways - I guess the boat has sailed for getting a performance (>1.2 turbo petrol) variant within 13-15 lakhs. The normal Yaris tops out at 18 lakhs in Bangalore and going by the UK pricing - if the GR ever made it here - it would be 30+ even if not a CBU! i20N, if it makes it here, will be 18 to 20 now - considering the 13L pricing of the regular car.

I am certainly not asking for a GR Yaris here. Or a GTI even! That will never work out for either the manufacturer or the customers. What I am asking for is the equivalent of that machine over here. A car which will not bring a lot money for the manufacturer and won't sell in high numbers. But it exists because some petrolhead inside the HQ was able to overcome the bean counters for once! Be it brand building like GTO mentioned or if the stupid small car rule is indeed scrapped, someone thought about handpicking a few 1000 units from the exports line for the domestic market. As mentioned in the post, think of it like this. The latest Polo with the 1.5 TSI + AT + 5 doors at around 15 lakhs. Or even the latest Fiesta with the 1.5 EcoBoost! A car which can also work as a single car in the family for an enthusiast. A modern car from the latest generation, but with a variant leaning towards the driver! Sure, there will be some compromises, but you get the gist!

Considering where our market is currently, that will be the GR Yaris equivalent here. Will that sell?? I think there are enough customers here bored with the current mediocrity all around that will form a critical mass. Yes, a few stars have to align for this to happen, but we have to start somewhere!

Originally Posted by extreme_torque

More astonishingly, the top end plain vanilla Yaris in Australia is an eye watering $33k!

So, Toyota is also shortchanging even the advanced markets with the boring variants of Yaris. I honestly don't know what to feel about it!

[Kosfactor]

Buying a car for fun! Are we there yet?

Forget the expensive Polo GTI etc, look at the slightly more expensive than usual Punto Abarth or Baleno RS or JTP etc, they did not get much traction either.

Well i20 could have a toned down N version, say 1L above the normal price and it will sell. But that's not just because of the engine, they have to cram in as many features as possible into it to entice the customer to part with their money. Say you get panoramic sunroof ONLY on the more powerful version etc.

[TheHelix0202]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

IMHO - No, even though we'd all like to pretend otherwise!

For 13-15 lakhs on road, the best bet would be the 1.0 direct injection petrols or used cars like E90 series BMW 330i, Octavia 1.8 TSi etc.

Spot on, hit the nail right on the head! Also, it's sad to see that there aren't any slightly higher displacement turbo engines available at even 10+ lakhs!!

[Vid6639]

I know you're not implying the GR Yaris to come to India. But man Toyota seems to have gotten to town with it.

I just read Chris Harris comments on the Yaris where he has praised it no end but at the same time taken Toyota to the cleaners as the GR YAris was more fun to drive than a Supra. He was like why did Toyota need BMW's engineering when they can make something like this.

Ofcourse the GR Yaris is very focussed and in India it won't get much buyers vs Europe where people are queuing up to buy it. On youtube I saw that Nurburgring track taxi rental company Apex (Misha's channel) put a youtube video saying they have listed Yaris GR for rental for track driving but will buy it only if they see demand for it that too in 2021. NExt day he had to go and buy it as the GR Yaris was booked out. lol.

In India the closest we can get would be lowered XUV3OO done up by MAhindra motorsports like they did for Gaurav gill's rally version.

The other option would be for Renault to get a Clio or VW to get the Polo GTI or the UP GTI.

I keep feeling hot hatch segment is what will fill the gap created over the last few years. Everyone wants compact SUV's and the sales of the C2 segment sedans are nowhere what they used to be.

The C2 sedans are getting eaten up by the small and mid size crossovers. What can help is to offer the same space in a hatch back format but have souped up engines.

A Honda city type R hatch will do nicely as well with a 1.5L turbo petrol engine.

[deetjohn]

Originally Posted by Vid6639

...I keep feeling hot hatch segment is what will fill the gap created over the last few years....A Honda city type R hatch will do nicely as well with a 1.5L turbo petrol engine.

Yes, well said. That's exactly what I meant!

A City hatchback with the onus on driving. It cannot be just an engine and some red badges though, No! They should make it steer and handle well too. Homework is really needed. A machine that will make you want it when you take it for a drive.

Currently, our market is so dull that a City Type R will feel essentially like the GR Yaris in the more mature markets.


Sadly, I don't think Honda India has it in them though. For the car division i.e. Why can't they take a leaf out of the CB350 booklet?

[extreme_torque]

Originally Posted by deetjohn

So, Toyota is also shortchanging even the advanced markets with the boring variants of Yaris. I honestly don't know what to feel about it!

And Toyota is aware of that as well and apparently they were ready for it. I dont know who in their right mind would buy a Yaris over a Corolla when they are almost similarly priced. The Yaris though comes fully loaded with adaptive cruise, forward collision warning, blind spot monitoring etc. in even the base model.
The top end Hybrid I just checked in even more expensive - $36k! Top end Corolla, also a Hybrid, is around $1.5k more. Madness!

[vipul_singh]

Voted 'no'. I think what we need are hotter engines and better dynamics tuning in a practical cars and the market would accept CUV-based GT-inspired vehicles the best. For example: a hot version of the Tucson or Rav4 (ok, the Corolla Cross - Rav4 is apparently 'too expensive for India').

[NT56]

Originally Posted by deetjohn

The stereotyped Indian media paints a different picture, but I honestly believe there are many out there who would value such a car. Let me know! And please be honest - there is no judgement here, just curious. I can totally understand if the preference is for a Sonet or EcoSport or the City sedan instead of this. Let's find out!

I would definitely buy such a hatch as my primary car if the back seat has a little more leg room then current polo (not much just a little more). I have always loved small, low slung, fast cars and if it's an automatic it would satisfy all my daily needs while being a lot of fun.

I have been looking to upgrade my polo 1.6 and this is exactly what I need. In the past several months I tried so many different turbo petrol automatics and basically disappointed in all of them. The closest to this requirement was the T-Roc but I didn't want to get a CBU. I am waiting for the VAG group to launch their new cars before making an informed compromise.

[John316_WRC]

I had the good opportunity to drive the Golf GTI and the R for extended periods of time. (A friend had the GTI which he sold and upgraded to a Golf R). I've also driven the 2015 Clio RS & Focus ST.

More than the acceleration, handling, street cred, what really shines through in these cars is the PRACTICALITY that they offer. You could seat 4 comfortably, do the grocery runs, and still have a huge plastered on your face all the time.

Such cars also are excellent for a single car garage!
So my answer to the poll is a big YES.

[vb-saan]

Voted Yes, and I believe there is a market even if the car is a CBU and priced with an intend to sell. The Polo GTI garnered interest at around 20 lakhs price-point, even though it was an outgoing model stock clearance. VW can easily bring the Golf GTI as a limited numbers CBU (similar to the T-Cross) and that again will find takers IMO. Unfortunately India is seen as a market for volume models, and more so by the Japanese manufacturers.