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Old 4th January 2021, 15:54   #16
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Default Re: CKD cars: How old is too old for the CKD kit?

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Originally Posted by itwasntme View Post
Complete rubbish from this other dealer!

The CKD date is usually at least 2 months before the assembly date in India. For example, my G20 330i Sport was CKD-made at Munich in end-September 2019 but assembled (code "S9C2 - CKD Installation India") in India end-January 2020. My RC shows January 2020.
So, your RC book does show assembly month of Jan,20 as MFG month and not the kit mfg month of Sep,19 right? In that case, my first dealer is wrong when he claims that he got the car from manufacturer in Nov,20 but mfg date will be Jan,20 because mfg date is the kit date. Which one is correct?

Now I am wondering why would BMW hold on to a Jan,20 mfg (ie assembled) date car and delivered to the dealer in Nov,20?

Last edited by CosmicWizard : 4th January 2021 at 15:56. Reason: slight clarification
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Old 4th January 2021, 18:25   #17
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Default Re: CKD cars: How old is too old for the CKD kit?

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Originally Posted by CosmicWizard View Post
Guys, I need some urgent help. Just minutes before booking my bimmer car, I found that the Car has CKD mfg date of Jan,20 on a dealer invoice/delivery date of Nov, 20.
This does not look normal, but at the same time not something to worry too much about.

But, in my humble personal opinion, please do not buy this particular piece as it would always linger in back of your mind, with the potential to ruin your post purchase experience, more than any technical aspect.
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Old 4th January 2021, 23:10   #18
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Default Form-22 mfg date confusion: need help

Guys, I had asked this in another thread but it went off tangent so reposting with a more to-the-point title:

For a CKD car, should Form-22 mfg date be the assembly date or the kit mfg date in Germany? The bmw X3 car I have booked has Jan,20 as mfg date in dealer Form-22 with Nov,20 as delivery date. Now the dealer claims that Jan,20 mfg date is the kit date and the actual assembly happened much later (maybe a couple of months before delivery) and that explains why mfg and delivery dates are so far apart. But this is not what I am being led to believe from other sources who claim that Form-22 mfg date is actually the assembly date.

Any ideas? If Jan,20 is indeed the assembly date then it is 1 year old car and that totally changes the purchase decision for me. But that leads to the followup question: what was this car possibly be doing at the factory from Jan,20 assembly date till Nov,20 dealer delivery? It is a blue/biege X3 and not that slow moving a vehicle. Not sure what to make sense of all this.
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Old 5th January 2021, 03:31   #19
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Default Re: Form-22 mfg date confusion: need help

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Originally Posted by CosmicWizard View Post
For a CKD car, should Form-22 mfg date be the assembly date or the kit mfg date in Germany? I am being led to believe from other sources who claim that Form-22 mfg date is actually the assembly date.

Any ideas? If Jan,20 is indeed the assembly date then it is 1 year old car and that totally changes the purchase decision for me.
Why are you bothered about Kit assembly dates? Except for a few VIN Decoder sites, I don't think it will show up anywhere or have relevance. As explained by others in that thread, there are multiple reasons. Form 22 will have a manufacturing month/ year based on actual production on the car. The kit itself maybe just a few parts. X3 comes in CKD, the engine is assembled in India and am sure the tyres/ batteries and a lot of components come from many vendors separately.

Do you think BMW ships complete X3 as a Kit in one Box from Germany and assemble it? It's a far more complex operation.
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Old 5th January 2021, 06:43   #20
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Default Re: Form-22 mfg date confusion: need help

Thanks Turbanator for the response. So, if dealer Form-22 says Jan, 20 as mfg date, this does mean the car was produced in Jan right and hence its a 1 year old car? And hence dealer claim of Oct, 20 assembly is false? If so, then why would BMW India produce a car in Jan and deliver to dealer in Nov, the delivery date as per dealer forms?

My concern is that regardless of whether this car was lying in dealer lot or factory after production in Jan 20, it is still too old a car to be sold as new, no?
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Old 5th January 2021, 07:09   #21
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Default Re: Form-22 mfg date confusion: need help

The Form 22 date is the date the kit was assembled in India (at least in the pre GST world). My car has a Sep 2016 Form 22 date, and a June 2016 date per VIN decoders.

Given the lockdowns, am not surprised that assembled cars got stuck at BMW Chennai - am sure they would have stored them properly. Would have been higher risk if stored at a dealer yard.
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Old 5th January 2021, 07:49   #22
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Default Re: Form-22 mfg date confusion: need help

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Originally Posted by CosmicWizard View Post
So, if dealer Form-22 says Jan, 20 as mfg date, this does mean the car was produced in Jan right and hence its a 1 year old car?
Correct and the parts will be even older.


Quote:
My concern is that regardless of whether this car was lying in dealer lot or factory after production in Jan 20, it is still too old a car to be sold as new, no?
No, it’s ok. I myself have picked even older cars. It all depends on the discounts, one of a known just picked Dec 2019 CBU. If you are getting a sweat deal, no harm. If they are charging full or giving usual discounts that you can get on 21 production, than No.

Dealers usually won’t have that capacity to keep a paid cad so long. Your car must be sitting at factory. You can ask dealership to share BMW invoice.

Crux, if it’s a good deal, continue without any second thoughts.

Last edited by Turbanator : 5th January 2021 at 07:51.
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Old 5th January 2021, 08:10   #23
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Default Re: CKD cars: How old is too old for the CKD kit?

Thanks a lot Turbanator et al for your patiently responding to my questions. I definitely owe you guys a beer whenever you are in bangalore next

Discount is 7.6L off ex-showroom (doing insurance outside) so not sure if that is usual.

One last question: given that it is 1 year old mfg, should I insist on a free oil change atleast? Afterall, even on a sitting car, engine oil will get old, right?
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Old 5th January 2021, 09:33   #24
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Default Re: CKD cars: How old is too old for the CKD kit?

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One last question: given that it is 1 year old mfg...
My friend, I am not sure a fast moving car like X3 would remain unsold for a year even during covid times. If there is something funny about this car, no amount of discount will justify the purchase. You can't simply take cover under covid for everything.

Don't get me wrong, it is a very smart thing to get a sweet deal on old stock but at the same time you want to avoid cars that could not be sold due to technical problems. I can understand if it has some unpopular color/egine/options due to which it could not be sold but this is a very popular car.

Can you find out how much is the "net" difference between this car and a more recent stock? If it's less than 10%, you should not bother.
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Old 5th January 2021, 09:35   #25
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Default Re: CKD cars: How old is too old for the CKD kit?

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Originally Posted by CosmicWizard View Post
given that it is 1 year old mfg, should I insist on a free oil change atleast? Afterall, even on a sitting car, engine oil will get old, right?
Quote:
I found that the Car has CKD mfg date of Jan,20 on a dealer invoice/delivery date of Nov, 20.
From your opening posts and later ones I am not able to makeup clearly. What’s manufacturing date as per BMW dealership?

If it’s Jan 20 ( don’t confuse this at all with kits on vin decoder) than you can request them to change the engine oil at time of PDI. They will happily agree. Buy an extended warranty too and your coverage will start from date of Invoice/ PDI.

Edit- can you post VIN of your car and I will try to find more information.

Last edited by Turbanator : 5th January 2021 at 09:37.
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Old 5th January 2021, 09:48   #26
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Default Re: CKD cars: How old is too old for the CKD kit?

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Originally Posted by Turbanator View Post
From your opening posts and later ones I am not able to makeup clearly. Whatís manufacturing date as per BMW dealership?

If itís Jan 20 ( donít confuse this at all with kits on vin decoder) than you can request them to change the engine oil at time of PDI. They will happily agree. Buy an extended warranty too and your coverage will start from date of Invoice/ PDI.

Edit- can you post VIN of your car and I will try to find more information.
On Form-22, mfg date is Jan,20 (delivered to dealer on Nov,20)

Confusion was because of dealer's claim that mfg date is kit date, even though assembly probably happened a month or 2 before delivery only. But on RC book, it will say Jan,20 mfg only, that even dealer concedes.
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Old 5th January 2021, 10:30   #27
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Default Re: CKD cars: How old is too old for the CKD kit?

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Originally Posted by CosmicWizard View Post

Confusion was because of dealer's claim that mfg date is kit date.
Understood, post your VIN here or PM and I will get complete information. Have you paid full booking or partial?
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Old 5th January 2021, 10:39   #28
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Default Re: CKD cars: How old is too old for the CKD kit?

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Originally Posted by Turbanator View Post
Understood, post your VIN here or PM and I will get complete information. Have you paid full booking or partial?
Thanks, I will get the VIN today and share. I have paid only 2L in booking so at worst case, can back out with 10% cancellation fee subtracted.
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Old 5th January 2021, 10:55   #29
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Default Re: CKD cars: How old is too old for the CKD kit?

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Originally Posted by Ford_Prefect View Post
Forgive my ignorance but what does Complete Knock Down really mean? Does it mean parts for a single car are in a box, imported into India and put together in a factory when it is time to sell? Or does it mean the importer gets parts for say a hundred cars and assembles them over say a year as they sell the cars?
CKD or complete Knock down means that most parts are imported from outside of india and only assembly is done here. I am not aware if they arrive in a Box , that would make it a kit car.

What i am aware is that there is huge difference between the import duties on CBU ( Complete Built up ) and CKD cars. For example CBU duty is 100% while CKD is 30% so luxury car segment utilizes the CKD route very often.

CKD rules of GOI also stipulate that you need to source certain parts locally and what percentage of local and imported is not clear to me. Auto makers usually import the engine and drive assembly while they may source other utilities from approved vendors if they are already present or search for vendors.

Due to low volume , CKD factories are generally smaller and have longer wait period.

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Originally Posted by Ford_Prefect View Post
Most mass manufacturers don't really build cars from scratch. They are integrators who get parts from their tier-1,2 suppliers and basically assemble the car. So, what is the level of assembly required for a CKD kit vs one built in a factory? Maybe someone more knowledgeable than me can explain.
Good question. My understanding is that there are no limits to the import content ( percentage of local and imported ) as long as you provide some employment locally which is what the GOI is after. I may also be wrong. Someone more knowledgeable may explain.
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Old 7th January 2021, 11:57   #30
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Default Re: CKD cars: How old is too old for the CKD kit?

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Originally Posted by androdev View Post
Can you find out how much is the "net" difference between this car and a more recent stock? If it's less than 10%, you should not bother.
Fresh 2021 model is going to cost me roughly 3.5L more. Is 5% discount worth going for 1 year old mfg car?

Also learnt that 2021 X3 will come in a cheaper base variant also. Waiting to hear more details on that too.
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