[chennai-indian]

Originally Posted by GTO

Sort of worried, guys. I'll put Ford's chances of exiting India at 50 - 60%. Don't think they will do a complete exit like GM because Ford has earlier subtly indicated (via their Mahindra JV) that they would like to maintain a foot in the door (keeping future Indian prospects in mind).

Having been associated with Ford in India from the beginning as a vendor partner, Ford manufacturing in India is facing a lot of headwinds. The future is bleak.

[TaurusSHO]

What's interesting about the BX772/VX772 program is that it's a vehicle based on a Ford platform (possibly the new C2 or the current B2E) that was also supposed to be used by Mahindra for their rumoured XUV400.

Commenting on the new strategy, Pawan Goenka, MD, M&M said, “The only gap that we have in the platform is a 4.4 meter kind of vehicle, and that will come from a joint product development that we are doing with Ford. This is a Ford platform called VX-772, which will take care of that need for Mahindra also.”

Link

Originally Posted by DicKy

But engines? The Dragon 1.5l petrol would do fine both for the sub 4m model as well as the Creta rival. An Ecoboost GDI turbo petrol variant of the same could be offered as well.

The 1.5 NA that we have in India is a derivative of the 1.5 Ecoboost, and is part of the dragon series of engines that does duty on most newer European Fords. They have the R&D, they have the engine, they just need to execute it perfectly.

[Bhupesh_2628]

I am worried too. Just like GTO said, I was just wondering that will it be possible for Ford to just focus on SUVs and Crossovers (all types catering to different segments) in our market. Because this segment is quite profitable for the manufacturer considering the success of Korean twins (Creta/Seltos) etc.
I know its difficult but the focused strategy in US can be applied here too I guess. This is one brand that I deeply love and respect.

[Nikhil Beke]

https://https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/technical-stuff/231670-chevrolet-owners-how-spare-parts-availability-service-since-gm-left-india.html (Chevrolet owners, how is the spare parts availability & service since GM left India?)
Reminds one of this thread: the Chevrolet service is apparently better than that of the many of the existing brands. Can the present owners(including the ones like me who are planning a Ford vehicle purchase at the moment) be hopeful of the ongoing support, should Ford unfortunately choose to shut Indian operations?

[rainmaster]

Originally Posted by Zodak

As an owner of a Fiesta and Figo, I so much want. Ford to stay. No other manufacturer offers European driving dynamics with a maintaince cost lesser than that of Koreans. Though have bought a Skoda now, but I for one would always purchase a Ford if they offer a vehicle in the segment I am looking for.

Completely agree with you, I currently own Fiesta and Figo, both are well build, economical to run and have inherent fun to drive nature. Ford had provided European driving dynamics with average maintenance cost, you don’t have to break the bank to maintain Ford cars.

I’m worried about their long term plan for India. Ford prolonged indecisiveness on product and powertrain indicates about their confusion on whether to invest or pack their bags in India and concentrate more on profitable markets. If ford wants to continue in India , they can bring EcoBlue Diesel Engine which has 1.5L and 2.0L variant. Ford EcoBlue diesel engines are already Euro 6 compliant so using in India will not be an issue. European Ford Ecosport, Puma are already running on 1.5L diesel with six speed manual and auto. They have equivalent competent petrol engines as well. Ecosport still have lot of pull among the public all it needs a complete refresh , introduce automatic , SYNC 3 , Android Auto and Apple carplay from Trend variant. Why it’s so difficult for Ford management to understand what sells in India and provide what public wants.

Ford, look at what Kia had done, how Renault and Nissan are bringing in new product despite of their lousy sales and trying to win customer business. Around 2010, Sub Compact SUV’s were aspirational product for public and Ford cashed in with Ecosport, Indian customer had moved on. Now compact SUV’s are the trend , bring in an appropriate product and make money. Less we talk about Figo, Aspire and Freestyle better we are. Only good driving dynamics with good diesel engine will not sell anymore. Ford is heading Fiat way, few products , no new products for a decade , slowly fading away from public memory. We will be missing affordable, safe, fun to drive cars .

[TusharK]

Ford and Mahindra to end all collaborative projects

According to a media report, Ford and Mahindra have decided to end all of their joint projects in India.



The proposed joint venture between Ford and Mahindra was called-off late last year. Both companies were supposed to decide their future course of action with respect to some of the projects by the end of March.

As part of the collaboration, Ford and Mahindra had planned to develop at least three SUVs for India and other emerging markets. The companies had also decided to share suppliers, powertrains and technology in order to reduce development and production costs.

Ford had put on hold all projects it was working on with Mahindra in February, while it finalized its future strategy. The company has already decided to continue its independent operations in India.

Source: ET Auto

Link to Team-BHP News

[volkman10]

Here is the final say:

Ford will now need to find another supplier or invest in upgrading its own engines

Ford executives have said on several occasions that the company is exploring all options in relation to its India business.

Link

[S15]

A somewhat old article (14th March 2021), not sure if this has been discussed here already, although going back a couple of pages, I couldn't find any such discussion.

“We are assessing our footprint*in*India,” Lynn Antipas Tyson, Ford’s executive director of investor relations, told an investor conference this week.

“We want to make sure that we’re allocating capital to opportunities that are profitable.”

LMC forecasts that, based on Ford’s current production outlook, the company will only use 20 per cent of its production capacity, which can churn out 440,000 vehicles in a year. Underused capacity is a major drag on profits in the motor industry.

“They can’t survive in India with those volumes,” Ammar Master, An LMC analyst said.

Source: https://www.ft.com/content/807f6db6-...c-c4aef2b9d1a0

[Sanidhya mukund]

Chevrolet: came to India with products that people liked (Tavera, Optra, Aveo), updated their lineup at the right time (Cruze, Captiva, Beat) and eventually killed themselves by bringing in rebadged Chinese economy cars that nobody bought.

Ford: Started India operations with the success of the Ikon (if you ignore the failure of the Escort), came up with cool products in the mid 2000s (Fiesta, Endeavour, Figo), pulled a rabit out of the hat with the Ecosport in 2013, updated their mass market models (Figo, Aspire) in 2015 and then...
NOTHING.
Since 2015, all they have done is facelifts (Talking about the mass market). No all new models whatsoever. After the second gen Ford Fiesta and the Figo twins failed to sell in good numbers, Ford seems to have lost motivation to do anything in the Indian Market.
They are now in a very tight spot because:

1. European and Australian models will be too expensive to implement in the Indian market.

2. Developing an India specific or third world specific model will be a risky venture; the investment will again go waste if the model doesn't sell well. The American HQ doesn't seem keen on taking such a risk.

3. Last resort: Bring in something from China. But the question is, will the Indian market warm up to a product that comes from a country whose goods are always treated with suspicion?

Having owned a Ford for more than 2 decades, it makes me really sad to see rumours of them leaving India. The iconic brand which is such an important element of the world's automotive history really deserves better.

[ABHI_1512]

I don’t know but something tells me that Ford is indeed taking some interest in India. They are opening new dealer points which somehow indicate that they are here to stay. A new outlet in Goa some weeks back and now with two outlets in the NCR, the number of dealer points is only increasing.

They might as well surprise the hell out of the doubting masses in the immediate future, at least, I would think so gleefully !!

[Venkatesh]

Pulling out of Ford JV and SsangYong were very difficult calls of my career, says Pawan Goenka.

About Mahindra and Ford JV

Let's talk about Ford first, it was very clearly said at that point in time, either to put that money into Scorpio or put it into Ford JV - and we chose Scorpio, nobody should fault us for that. Just imagine if Mahindra had taken the safe bet of joining hands with Ford - where would we be today.

We had constraints - we learnt a lot from Ford JV, Ford learnt a lot about India from us, then they were able to be on their own. If it was a bitter separation, we would not have almost done the second JV again, which would have been a bigger JV.

As for Ford JV - one was the whole - outlook for industry size went down the drain. When we first signed up for JV, we were looking at 8-10% kind of growth for the market, from the time we signed the agreement, from that we arrived at a certain volume, post covid, the most of the outlook given by outsiders said it will take five years to recover the volumes. You can imagine, volumes fell to 50-60% - so you see how business plans changed significantly, from what we had worked out at the time of coming together.

Second - whether we can justify putting in so much money in the Ford JV - we were already scarce of capital.

We needed to double down on EVs, the question was where do we get that money from, so again we had to take almost the same call that we took 20 years ago. Scorpio Vs Ford JV, this time around it was Electric Vehicles versus Ford JV.

So these are decisions you have to take, what the outside world should see is the ability of Mahindra management to take such difficult calls - without being concerned about how it will look .

These are the right business decisions. These are not short term business decisions these are long term business decisions. It changes the direction of the company. Today we are convinced that we have to really invest in electric vehicles and we took the right call.

Link

[CARDEEP]

These statements from Pawan Goenka DO NOT MAKE ANY SENSE, especially the 50-60% reduction in volume in post Covid scenario (it's already proved incorrect in Indian market).

It seems he relied more on the few presentations than his own long experience on Indian market. Probably trying to play safe as he assumed there won't be many takers for his baby (s) after he's gone (exit).

Sad way to exit with excuses, than make sure all remember him for his one last glorious shot (of course with all ground work behind the same).

[kiku007]

Originally Posted by CARDEEP

These statements from Pawan Goenka DO NOT MAKE ANY SENSE, especially the 50-60% reduction in volume in post Covid scenario (it's already proved incorrect in Indian market).

https://www.business-standard.com/ar...0800495_1.html

"Cumulative vehicle registrations across all categories fell year-on-year by 28.64 per cent in March, Federation of Automobile Dealers Association (FADA) said on Thursday. The fall comes despite last year’s low base. Auto sales had come to a standstill owing to a seven-day lockdown last March.

The registration volumes are in stark contrast to the wholesale (dispatches to dealers) volumes reported by manufacturers on April 1. Owing to the low base of last year which came on back of a lockdown and a transition from BS-IV to BS-VI, quite a few auto firms including Maruti, Hyundai, Tata Motors, Mahindra and Mahindra, reported a more than 100 per cent year-on-year jump in their March sales."


The thing is, the Automakers and the Government can chose the narrative they want to peddle based on the metric they chose. Two weeks ago it was about three digit growth % based on wholesale numbers and now it's about two digit drop % based on actual registrations.


So the gentleman may not be entirely off the mark about the time it'll take for the market to rebound. Also, it's quite common for industry heads to call out market conditions (with honesty) when they are heading towards sunset. It's all rosy otherwise.

[CARDEEP]

Originally Posted by kiku007

https://www.business-standard.com/ar...0800495_1.html

"Cumulative vehicle registrations across all categories fell year-on-year by 28.64 per cent in March, Federation of Automobile Dealers Association (FADA) said on Thursday. The fall comes despite last year’s low base. Auto sales had come to a standstill owing to a seven-day lockdown last March.

The registration volumes are in stark contrast to the wholesale (dispatches to dealers) volumes reported by manufacturers on April 1. Owing to the low base of last year which came on back of a lockdown and a transition from BS-IV to BS-VI, quite a few auto firms including Maruti, Hyundai, Tata Motors, Mahindra and Mahindra, reported a more than 100 per cent year-on-year jump in their March sales."

This report says it fell by little over 2% for passengers vehicles:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/indiane...-7270113/lite/

The number of 30% also include commercial vehicles & exports, I believe. The JV was announced not long ago, & it was shelved almost like a premature baby. Not only Ford, but Mahindra have dragged feet based on hypothetical numbers. While Ford India had own problems, Mahindra had skeletons (in cupboards) to watch out for. Their new launch plans are in disarray, half of the line up took ages to upgrade to BS6 & then this Ford fiasco happened.

I had previously posted that Pawan Goenka reaped benefits of BD Sir's efforts. I'm now damn sure without BD Sir's efforts Scorpio & Thar would not have been the brands they are now. If Pawan takes all the credit, he can also be blamed for experts directed good ups like this & chips issues (they have made a mess of Thar launch with that). Take a cue from market leaders, they are at normal numbers despite 50-60% reduction volumes & chips issues, as if their vehicles are running on older technologies.

Indian auto market is now 4th or 5th largest in world, & for Mahindra it's their cash cow. You cannot just let the cow die, because some expert (s) opinion weighs over your experience.

[CARDEEP]

Few additional points (maybe last post on this thread), SIAM is quoting 2 different numbers & creating confusion to many - one is dispatches to dealers (that are reported by manufacturers as sales numbers on month-on-month basis) & registration of vehicles. These numbers are bound to confuse, but simply put the difference between 3-28% is majorly because of Timing Differences (read definition : https://www.accountingtools.com/arti...e%20statement.). It's a matter of few days/ weeks/ months (depending upon manufacturers) that these dispatches re converted into registrations.

Coming to these dealers who are crying & claiming to be the sufferers due to manufacturers pushing inventory are the ones who make hay (read charge premium) when a aspirational/ successful product is launched or is in market. Mahindra had fair share of such products & continues to be in similar position even today.

Lastly, if I were the CEO of auto manufacturer, I would be more interested in dispatches from plant. If my products are not getting registered, I would need to sit with my marketing & product planning teams for better resolution (in both short & long term).