[EightSix]

We at Team-BHP are big fans of pre-worshipped cars, aren’t we? Whether it is a young sports car buyer who has a budget of 7.5 million rupees, or a car buyer with 7.5 lakh rupees. The used car market has so many options for all. Plus the benefits of buying pre-owned are huge!

But there has gotta be a particular car or few cars that you would(should) never buy used. Like this SsangYong Rexton, that GTO doesn’t recommend to a BHPian at all, despite being such a huge used car buff —

Originally Posted by GTO

Avoid at any & all costs, even if the seller gives it to you for 2 lakhs. You are basically paying him to take over his headache.

- The Rexton was a very mediocre SUV
- Mahindra workshops had no clue on how to service it
- The reliability was patchy
- Spare part availability is impossible

The car damaged the "Ssangyong" & "Rexton" brands so severely that Mahindra entirely ditched them when they launched the 2nd-gen car here, instead calling it the Mahindra Alturas G4.

A ‘Scotty Kilmer’ search on YouTube will yield multiple videos on which cars you should never buy used. Even Consumer Reports has given the “Never Buy” Label to certain used cars. (https://www.motorbiscuit.com/used-ca...ver-buy-label/) But sadly, there is nothing in the Indian used car market to guide a buyer about this.

There could also be some cars which are good new, but horrible used. Like in the new car market, where you would steer clear of certain cars, there has gotta be some cars you would never buy used.

So comment down below which cars, in your opinion are not suitable to buy used.

Here is a list of cars I would never buy used —

#1. Nissan Teana

This car looks like an amazing buy. Infact, I always wanted to buy one in India, because we had an 2005 Altima in the U.S.A. It’s big, wide, luxurious. It’s as reliable as any other Japanese car. What could go wrong with this?



Answer - Maintenance costs. Spare parts availability. Encounters with ROGUES (pun intended) and thugs that go by “Nissan Dealers”.

I don’t want a painful ownership, however great the car is. There is a reason why this car starts at 2 lakh used. Unless I have some technical know how and time, or a trusted FNG like vigsom and his friend did (Nissan Teana V6: First impressions & power steering repair), I won’t buy a Nissan Teana nor would I advise anybody else to do so.

#2. Anything from the VW Group

Call me biased, and while the newer VW/Skoda are somewhat more reliable, the previous gen models available for cheap in the used car market are plenty. Buyers who want a German car for cheap end up with a dashboard that lights up like a Christmas tree.



When buying a used car, reliability is everything!

#3. Hyundai Tucson, Santa Fe, Sonata

You might think it is only the Germans that will end up here. Wrong! Hyundai gets a place here too. While I would strongly recommend other used Hyundai’s as great city cars — I would never recommend Hyundai’s premium cars. The reason - Hyundai failed miserably to support every one of their premium cars. Spare parts must be a huge nightmare.



Of course, these cars are very nicely built indeed and most examples can do over 2 lakh easy!

#4. Toyota Innova and Fortuner

Toyota’s are extremely reliable, for Innova and Fortuner spare parts are also not a problem, and they will outlast their owners. But these two are not good used buys, atleast IMO. These cars fall in the category of cars that are great when new but not-so-good as used buys.



The reason being, most of the time, these cars have ODO readings that are way too high, are heavily abused and are too old, yet too pricey.

Saving a few lakhs on a two-three year old specimen is fine. But buying a car that has one lakh kilometers, no thank you. These cars are best bought new.

#5. Dealer demo vehicles, media/press cars



Time and again, Team-BHP has advised against this, but you see expensive cars with low run ODOs at super-cheap costs — and then temptation would get the better of you.

Ownership hassles, damaged cars, tampered odometers — the list of problems is endless!

And the media and press cars are heavily abused too, Infact, you have to redline the engine on day 1.

And lastly, the key principle with used cars is that “If nobody wanted it new, nobody wants it used.”



I’m gonna steer clear of most flopped cars in general, for this reason.

Related thread - https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/india...ml#post4730835 (The Pros & Cons to buying a flopped car)

And that’s all I got. I am no expert on used cars, and don’t own one yet, but I am sure more experienced members here should be able to enlighten BHPians with their advice. So, what are you waiting for? Start commenting down below!

Thanks for reading.

Related instalments in the Team-BHP pre-worshipped car series —

The not-so-obvious advantages

New vs Used cars (ARTICLE: Buying a New Car vs Used Car)

How to buy a used car in India

[GTO]

Thread moved from the Assembly Line to the Indian Car Scene. Thanks for sharing!

Great thread. As someone who is extremely passionate about pre-owned cars, here is my "avoid" list:

• Any car with over 50,000 km on the odo. Don't get me wrong; if its my own car, I have no qualms in driving it till 200,000 km, but when I'm buying someone else's car, I don't know its history or how its been driven. Hence, 50,000 km or below is my comfort zone; above that is my "avoid" zone.

• Out of warranty European cars, especially those that are over 5 years old. It could be an Octavia or an E-Class, but they eventually become money pits. If I buy a European car, it's usually something <3 years old and preferably with an extended warranty option. I don't have the risk appetite to buy an old out-of-warranty German car.

• Cars with a poor track record of reliability (early Ventos, TUV300 AMT, Aria, W203 C-Class, Superb 1.8 DSG etc.). Had seen an E60 M5 at a throwaway price, but didn't ever consider it. That car was on sale for 3 years, I heard.

• The launch year of cars, especially when it comes to European models (too complex) or Tata / Mahindra (just go through the 2019 Harrier problems or the 2020 Thar niggles thread). I prefer to buy models from later in the model years, once the product has matured.

• Cars that are cheap to buy new. If I wanted to buy an 8-lakh rupee beater, I would probably buy a new car only (as I did with my Nissan Sunny). To me, the appeal of used cars is in the 15 lakh and above segments. The more expensive a car when new, the more tempting its proposition is in the used market.

• A deal that looks shady. Sometimes, I have driven a car that otherwise seemed okay, but the entire deal + attitude + environment was too shady. If in doubt, walk away. You have to go with your gut instinct at times.

• Dealer demo cars or the media fleet of manufacturers. Fact = Indians simply don't treat others property well. I have seen how journos abuse press cars. Give me a single owner 30,000 km car over a dealer demo / press car with 10,000 km any day!

• Heavily modified cars. To me, factory horses are factory horses. Simple modifications are okay (e.g. remap), but if a car had an after-market turbo install or an engine swap, I won't go anywhere near it. Even something like an after-market rear disc setup is a turn-off for me.

• Discontinued cars with poor manufacturer support (e.g. Linea T-Jet).

[Dr.AD]

Good thread, and I agree with most of the points.

However,

Originally Posted by EightSix

And lastly, the key principle with used cars is that “If nobody wanted it new, nobody wants it used.”

I’m gonna steer clear of most flopped cars in general, for this reason.

This is something I disagree with. There are some good cars with some unique value propositions, but they still flop in the market because that value propositions was not seen by or not applicable to masses. But if one wants that specific value, then the same car in the used market makes sense. Such cars invariable have low resale price, and could make for a great deal in the used car.

An example of this is Maruti S-Cross 1.6. This was sold in such low numbers that Maruti discontinued it and kept only the 1.3 model on sale. However, if I were to ever buy a used S-Cross, I will really search hard to find a 1.6 model. Another example if Fiat Linea T-jet. It was never sold it large numbers, but it can still make a very good buy in the used car market, if you find one. And if you find one, you will see that it is sold at quite a low price. Even better for a used car buyer!

In fact, when I choose a car, new or old, whether the car is a big success or not is usually not even a main consideration. If I like that car, and if that car fits my requirements, I would still buy it new or old.

[gkveda]

I always have soft corner for used cars. And my used cars decision have not gone wrong so far.

For me, TBHP is the Guru to decide on used cars. But I will not decide based on official reviews when it comes to used car purchase decisions. In my view official reviews gives phenomenal insights on features, safety aspects and every minute detail of new cars. But what it does not and cannot cover is, long term reliability of cars since at the time of writing official reviews, the car would have launched just then and hence its long term reliability would not be still known.

So, I will go through ownership reviews to know long term reliability, niggles and issues threads and last few pages of official reviews to know the real long term reliability of cars. The general guideline for me is, the less frequently updated thread on niggles and issues, the more reliable the car

Generally, what I have observed is, Toyota and Maruti cars have very very less pop up on niggles and issues threads. The masters in this category are TATAs and Mahindras.

And recently, Hyundais, KIAs have also started contribution to the issues and niggles section.

So, I avoid going with these manufacturers when I go for used cars.

Reason is simple: People sell their cars mostly because of 3-4 reasons

1. The car has met with accident and they want to get rid of them.
2. The car has niggles and issues that they are fed up with and are not able to sort them out.
3. In long term, car has become unreliable.
4. The owner is attracted to new and more powerful and upgraded car, wants to upgrade the existing car.

Points 2 and 3 mentioned above can be easily eliminated by choosing Maruti and Toyota in my opinion. And therefore, my list of "To be avoided used cars" contain

1. The car that is out of production
2. TATA cars
3. Mahindra and Hyundai latest year of manufacture cars
4. Manufacturers who are out of the game (Chevrolet as an example)
5. New entrants in the market (Kia and MG) as their behaviour in the country is unknown yet.

[lonetraveller89]

Originally Posted by EightSix

#4. Toyota Innova and Fortuner

These cars fall in the category of cars that are great when new but not-so-good as used buys. These cars are best bought new.

Lol. Try telling this to anybody from the taxi industry. They will scoff at the idea of buying a new Innova. Also, most of these cars are purchased with their resale value in mind. Thus their primary owners tend not to 'abuse' them as much.

[V.Narayan]

Originally Posted by EightSix

And lastly, the key principle with used cars is that “If nobody wanted it new, nobody wants it used.”

Excellent thread and a great opening post EightSix. I am hardly qualified to comment having never bought a second hand car. My only purchase ever was a pre-owned Lambretta where the only criterion was the low purchase price to match my even lower opening salary. I agree with all your points except the one above. Some cars might be first class but simply did not click in the Indian market. Though you have a point that if they did not sell in numbers then a few years out spares and service will become an issue.

Another point, which GTO has also touched upon is attitude of who the seller is. A Parsi gentleman from Mumbai would be preferred by a country mile to say an aggressive chap from Delhi {like me }. The only pre-owned car I hope to buy one day would be a vintage/classic. One day. Sigh.

[Iyencar]

The original post is a bit flawed. One end all VAG cars are a no for not being reliable while at the other end the Innova is a no for being too reliable?! This will soon devolve into a generic how to buy a used car thread or an advantages of buying used thread both of which we already have. Best to list individual cars and their demerits rather than generalising. E.g no to a TUV Amt because of the gearbox reliability, yes to an AWD XUV500. No to the 2nd gen superb, yes to a diesel AT/MT last gen superb. No to the Montero and Outlander, yes to the Pajero Sport with the disclaimer that you have an fng and ability to source parts. Resounding yes to the Innova if you can afford it. After all the only ‘flaw’ is price. If someone is willing to pay the premium for reliablity then they’ll still save a few cool lakhs.

[landcruiser123]

Nice thread. I wouldn't buy the new Hyundais (barring Tucson) used as I feel they are very poorly put together and a lot of part failures occur much before they should.

Originally Posted by EightSix

And lastly, the key principle with used cars is that “If nobody wanted it new, nobody wants it used.”

This principle shouldn't be set in stone as some unpopular deals can be great buys if you accept the car for what it is.

Case in point: My neighbor bought a used Honda Mobilio a few years ago which is exclusively used to chauffeur his senior citizen parents. He got a 20,000km run Mobilio at the price of a new Swift.

Hyundai Getz was a very good used buy too.

[Eshan Joshi]

This is the most obvious one : Avoid buying any used JLR car . There is a high chance that car would drain your wallet.

Other than that , Avoid picking old cars with a low odometer reading.(usually high end ones). A old car with a low odometer might be tempting. But there might be a high chance that It might be problematic or high maintenance.

And my last point: Avoid buying a used imported car. It would be a pain to source spare parts and find a mechanic who would know to work on those cars.

[AMG Power]

Adding to some valid areas you’ve pointed out:

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

Some cars might be first class but simply did not click in the Indian market.

I have always maintained that if a car does not sell in the Indian market it will be a good car. Ford Mondeo, Maruti Baleno (earlier model) and Global Fiesta (the last variant) are a few cases in point.

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

The only pre-owned car I hope to buy one day would be a vintage/classic. One day. Sigh.

Which brings me to the second point which I was going to raise. As per the thread you cannot go anywhere near a vintage / classic car. Basket cases command the highest resale value sometimes in several multiples of the original sale price regardless of availability of sales, service and spares.

The less said of the reputation of some of those sellers the better.

The competence of the buyer is the valid point here and more than makes up for any lapses / shortcomings on the part of the seller, car, manufacturer, service or spares availability.

Some basket cases may contain about 2% of the original car, yet will be brought back to 100% originality.

This can also be extended to regular pre owned cars.

[kiku007]

Without beating around the bush, expect for a few of Maruti's flops, is the OP basically saying the below,

New or old it doesn't matter. Just buy a Maruti.

Cars like the Baleno, Vitara and the S-Cross were one of the best to come out of Maruti but didn't get that much love from the masses. I hope you get what I mean.

Shortlist and evaluate cars based on your own requirements. The approach is very different when one is after Point A-B mobility vs. one is after an aspirational/FTD purchase or an hobby. It's ok to know what the masses want but don't let that be the only thing to determine your path.

If you love to drive and knock off cars like the Polo GT TSI, Skoda Octavia vRS and the Ford Fiesta 1.6L by the logic described in the opening post, then it's quite sad. In a decade's time as long as the government doesn't decide to scrap cars that are older than x years, these are the cars that will increase in value. The Fiesta 1.6S didn't sell much but I know people who are looking to buy a good example in 2021.

The three-letter acronyms like DCT, DSG and VAG don't seem to have a good reputation at TBHP even though I think otherwise.

[Raghu M]

I would stay away from any car that is over 50K on the odo. It simply doesn't make any sense to choose such a car. Unless to learn driving or some very lame excuse which is greater than the deal itself, then it makes sense but cars that have high odo readings are just sitting ducks in my opinion. They will fail and when they do, it takes away the pleasure of owning an automotive altogether. I have seen friends who think they have gotten great deals by negotiating from rock bottom prices when compared to the owner's quotation and then the agony they go through each time the car breaks down. I have seen so many ownership reviews in the forum too. While some jobs were done neatly, the others went through quite some disappointing time by choosing old cars.

[Cavityavenger]

Originally Posted by lonetraveller89

Lol. Try telling this to anybody from the taxi industry. They will scoff at the idea of buying a new Innova. Also, most of these cars are purchased with their resale value in mind. Thus their primary owners tend not to 'abuse' them as much.

The resale value of the Innova's is driven up because it's the staple car for taxi services. The cost of ownership of an Innova is far cheaper than other 7 seaters in the market, hence the premium.

However, the proposition that the OP is making is whether buying a used innova/fortuner is value for money. Given the choice of a brand new fortuner @40 L vs a 2 year used with 50K mileage @35L, most folks would definitely choose a new one.

[sodapop]

Originally Posted by EightSix

We at Team-BHP are big fans of pre-worshipped cars, aren’t we? Whether it is a young sports car buyer who has a budget of 7.5 million rupees, or a car buyer with 7.5 lakh rupees. The used car market has so many options for all. Plus the benefits of buying pre-owned are huge!

I don't this is as much of a black and white topic as it's made out to be. One should pick a car, irrespective of new or used, according to one's needs and wants. There's no one rule that buying all used VAGs are bad for everybody. Now common sense would dictate that buying a used Mitsubishi Pajero Sport would be utterly foolish in today's age but BHPian Vigsom has proved that if you have the technical know-how no car is truly a headache.

For another example, I was travelling on the NE1 last year and I spotted a Gen 1 Octavia diesel being used by a tow operator for towing small cars, transporting personnel etc. Even I was surprised for the unique choice of car that most people would shrug off as a terrible decision buying a 15+ year old Skoda luxury sedan. But then I remembered how the 1.9 diesel had bulletproof reliability and pulling power and abysmal resale values meant that the tow operator could get it for really cheap and the car completely suited his use case.

As for the flop cars, everybody has a personal opinion and again it depends highly on the needs + risk appetite. Say a BRV which is a dead flop is actually not so bad of an MPV. It shares mechanicals with the City and the parts are cheap and readily available. Additionally what you get is a relatively spacious cabin and the Honda badge for much less money than a comparable Ertiga, so why not?

As for the Fortuner and Innovas. They are overpriced yes but also there's a lack of options there. They have that price because the market commands it. People see something in those cars that we aren't seeing and that is the engineering depth and mechanical reliability. With an extremely low rate of depreciation, low running costs and the legendary reliability, I don't think there really is any other car that makes as much sense to buy as an innova.

That Rexton that GTO advised against, I think it's a good enough car if you get it at a steal deal, a good example and can manage to maintain it. You essentially have a luxury SUV for lesser than a new Bolero!

Hope everybody takes my opinion inoffensively

Cheers

[Mannu]

Originally Posted by Iyencar

The original post is a bit flawed. One end all VAG cars are a no for not being reliable while at the other end the Innova is a no for being too reliable?! This will soon devolve into a generic how to buy a used car thread or an advantages of buying used thread both of which we already have. Best to list individual cars and their demerits rather than generalising. E.g no to a TUV Amt because of the gearbox reliability, yes to an AWD XUV500. No to the 2nd gen superb, yes to a diesel AT/MT last gen superb. No to the Montero and Outlander, yes to the Pajero Sport with the disclaimer that you have an fng and ability to source parts. Resounding yes to the Innova if you can afford it. After all the only ‘flaw’ is price. If someone is willing to pay the premium for reliablity then they’ll still save a few cool lakhs.

A blanket rule does not apply here. It's what one' priority that defines the usefulness of a vehicle. Someone from my close friends was involved in an accident in a VW Polo and swears by it ls safety now. He would never touch a Maruti of Hyundai for same. So, when looking for a used car he was ok with niggles of a safe car than looking at the best seller. It's always a individual case apart from few regular exceptions.
We also need to keep in mind the locations too. A used car from Big 3 Germans may be a good buy in metros or where we have a good FNG but not in tier 2 or 3 city as even a minor breakdown may keep you stranded for days.