[Fastdriver]

Long story short: Tata and Mahindra still have a long way to go in matching the MNCs except in build quality and safety. Niggling issues will continue.

[aashishnb]

Originally Posted by kaushal-pandya

Before this, I had Nexon with me and I was very happy with the Harman system. No issues et all. So I am continuously asking them to get that system installed in my car. But they are refusing it.

Isn't HarmanKardon+JBL owned by Tatas. I thought that was the reason they started using their systems in their cars. Why Visteon? Would anyone know?

Originally Posted by kaushal-pandya

Hi all,

I am starting this thread to highlight the build quality issues that I am facing in my Harrier XZA+ 2020 (BS6) model. I will focus more on the unprofessionalism shown by the Tata Motors dealership (3rd point escalation person of the dealership, Centralised Customer Care team, Customer Care western region head, and the Tata Motors Customer Care head) in helping to resolve these issues.

After reading your ordeal, here are two nasty solutions that you may want to try:
1. Buy 1 share, attend an AGM and ask really touch questions to the management / rant about your problems. Creates a very 'sorry picture' for the top management.

2. Perhaps more potent - Attend their quarterly investor / analyst calls (most companies host them and anyone can join). Ask your question. Try to draft your question nicely, link it to financial aspects (what is the company doing to improve its top management or CRM when there are so many stories of .........../ how could the company ever turn profitable when.../ why would long term investor look at the company when....). Any question you ask here and their response has to be compulsorily be recorded and the transcripts shared with stock exchanges and company website.

[adityadeva]

This happens when the 'work' ( here making the car and servicing it) is done by a taskforce with a leadership who has no passion.

Yes, I'm referring to the head of Tata group.

Car making or for that matter, to excel, one has to have passion, it's not the profit alone (I hope the one's in charge of affairs read this) that builds a brand.

TATA employees are worse than government staff with a few exceptions, but that culture has to change if it comes to passenger cars or any vehicle for that matter. The idea of customer satisfaction has to be pushed on top priority amongst the staff, by training, constant reminders, appreciating the good workers ( does this happen anywhere), anything and everything.

And ofcourse the feedback should go to the guys who design and execute these vehicles. Hopefully they are reading this too.

If else, all guys like 9-5 job, TATA can say good bye to passenger car segment in half a decade.

This is because in segments of 20 lakh rupees, the customer doesn't want to see the after sales guys ever and that too for a second time.

If the Chief knows only how to make profit selling software services and winding it up after cow has dried of milking, he better wind up the passenger cars/ vehicles. These are the segments that last decades if not centuries, if one has the passion, right passion. Sidharth lal has it, Anand Mahindra has it.
Also there's that automotive sense that we all share in bhp here, but can old dog learn new tricks. Only time will tell, if they have any shame left after reading so much adversity especially about TASS.

If Japanese and Korean companies can do it with Indian staff, why can't an Indian company do it, that too after a couple of decades. If one can become shameless even after repeated criticism, why not be shameless to copy the work of Japanese and Korean companies and implement the proven methods in their own company.

[Arkesh]

I own Tata Harrier XZ+ Dark Edition purchased in October 2020 from Bhubaneswar, Odisha. I had a tough time initially dealing with the buggy infotainment system and later with Tata's service executives. As mentioned by many, the problem lies with the memory crunch in the 8.8-inch unit. Thankfully the number of software patches released has almost ironed the issues. The touch response is smooth now, hardly it freezes and overall the system is more responsive now (Current Version Q5_R16.09). However, as the issue lies with inadequate hardware, I believe some problems will stay forever. For example, frequent Bluetooth disconnection and system auto-reboot while you're still driving. I am using a Samsung phone and the only problem I face is one out of 10 times the BT connection will get continuously disconnected and reconnected automatically for 4-5 times straight. I believe the Tata team is listening to these because every time they are rolling out a software patch, most of the issues reported are being addressed. But what is disheartening is to see your 20+ lac prized possession is still a half-baked product at least on certain fronts.

Tata's vendor management is so shabby that they onboard them without doing the necessary due diligence. That too mostly because Tata's procurement team does it like Indian Govt. does tenders. It's not based on quality but rather who pays the officer to get it through. Even the regional customer service managers seem to be too busy in getting sweet deals from the local dealers that they go on protecting them in spite of all the genuine complaints.

I faced issues with the buggy infotainment, frequent fogging on the headlight console, and poor paint quality. They replaced the problematic headlamp with a new one under warranty and the fogging problem is replaced by a new problem of slow beam height adjustment. Again poor vendor selection and inconsistency in procurement lots. My left lamp does the height adjustment faster than the right lamp.

Apart from these issues, there is no denying the fact that how robust the overall build quality is. It's actually built like a tank with acres of space and comfort inside. So much road presence that people will keep staring as you go and that will put a big grin on your face. I love its mature ride and handling, and that is something I have always missed on Maruti and Hyundai cars. Honestly, for the first 1-2 months, I was frustrated with the bugs but as things gradually sorted out I really enjoyed doing long drives on this beast. I would have regretted it big time if I would have chosen anything else. What other options do we have except for poor safety-rated Korean siblings or the rodent-prone MG Hector.

[Raphel]

Hi Friends
I am a new member here, though I was reading and gathering infos from this fantastic forum since over a decade. I am planning to buy my next car, currently owning City and Brio (priot to that Opel Corsa and M800) should be better than City. Unfortunately Corolla discontinued and would love to have BMWX1, but looking at the Tax involved which is over 22 lakhs, I wonder why I should pay inspite of given 35% tax on my income already, really a funny thought!
Budget is fine. Toyota fortuner is bigger for my wife who drives (normally city) to her office in Mumbai Fort, whenever required, especially in these present times. Tata Harrier is one, but looking at the history of Tata cars, I wanted to have feedbacks from users. Though the initial feedbacks are as usual, not encouraging, I still holding my attention there. Unfortunately we dont have a car/suv at 30-35 lakhs, which is compact. Skoda is not considered as their future looks bleak?
What to do?

[NotanF1driver]

Originally Posted by Raphel

Budget is fine. Toyota fortuner is bigger for my wife who drives (normally city) to her office in Mumbai Fort, whenever required, especially in these present times. Tata Harrier is one, but looking at the history of Tata cars, I wanted to have feedbacks from users. Though the initial feedbacks are as usual, not encouraging, I still holding my attention there. Unfortunately we dont have a car/suv at 30-35 lakhs, which is compact. Skoda is not considered as their future looks bleak?
What to do?

Hi Raphel,

Welcome to Team-BHP. If budget is not a barrier, I think you should consider the Jeep Compass, it fits on the 30-35 lakhs price bracket. Take a test drive of the Compass before you decide - just see how the engine gearbox combo works for you. It is also not as large as a Fortuner, and the interiors are top notch, in my opinion.

Another option is the new Skoda Octavia. I understand your concerns on the Skoda's future, but the VAG group is betting big on India with the Kushaq and Taigun. I don't think they are planning to exit India soon (I've not come across any news similar to Ford at all).

The Harrier is a good option, however, check the width of the car and compare it with rivals. It is way wider than the competition and is also slightly wider than the Endeavour. Take a test drive and see how you're able to handle it through traffic and narrow roads.

I was searching for a car in the 20 - 25L price bracket and ultimately settled for Seltos for now (booked and waiting). I did not want to buy a car with so much niggles and hit or miss after sales service - hence eliminated the Harrier (I just loved this car, otherwise).

[car_guy1998]

Had TD’ed the Harrier AT today as we are looking for a replacement for Innova and although I liked the car in terms of performance and drivability , I wasn’t impressed with the quality of the interiors.

The TD car’s steering wheel leather was showing signs of age (pic attached) and rear seat’s armrest’s leather was also torn as well.

And, that TD car has run just 8k Kms and it’s a 6 months old vehicle as per the SA and sad to see the quality of the steering getting deteriorated.

Although my heart is screaming to get the Harrier, I guess I should now look for other alternatives like Seltos/Creta, Compass or Innova Crysta.

Even though my dad liked the car, he isn’t keen on spending ₹25L on a Tata vehicle and he felt ₹25L is too expensive for a Tata vehicle while he doesn’t mind spending the similar amount on the Crysta.

[ashokabs]

I think the problem with most Indian companies dealing with consumer goods or white goods is customer care. The ones who have given focus to customer care are doing well and the others are struggling. Amongst those who are not doing well are the Indian auto giants like Tata Motors and Mahindras. I think it is something to do with our general lack of customer care in all facets of life. It probably stems from the days when there were product monopolies before liberalization - horror stories of Ambassadors, Fiats and Heralds abound. I remember my father buying an Ambassador in the early seventies and in the showroom itself the front passenger door almost came off the hinges!

This mindset is slowly changing in the face of competition. It might be one of the reasons why Indian companies hate competition!! However, I am surprised that companies like M&M and Tata Motors haven't been able to completely change the culture after so many years. Even in quality control they are nowhere near the Japanese and even the Koreans. I think, having been in industry over 50 years, that changing the attitude of the worker is a much bigger challenge. Especially when they have been working in a slipshod way for years. Indian workers do not follow instructions but try to find out shortcuts which is a disaster for a quality process. I have digressed a bit.

I believe that the culture has to change fast and the best way is to ensure good international competition by having lower customs duties and lower trade barriers. I bought a Tiago ZX in 2016. I have given a detailed review in the appropriate forum. I did not face any real problems so far so I can say that in the entry level car at least there were no quality issues. I had a problem with the fuel pump assembly which was replaced in warranty. However, the SA could not identify the problem after several visits and twice the car had to be towed. Only after contacting the Service Manager in Delhi they sent an engineer and the fuel pump assembly (Bosch) was replaced.

Unless the quality culture and the customer care culture is sharply improved the problems with Tata Motors products - however well designed and nice looking - will continue and each buyer will have his own adventure. Be rest assured all of that will find a place in Team-BHP.

[kaushal-pandya]

Originally Posted by adityadeva

And ofcourse the feedback should go to the guys who design and execute these vehicles. Hopefully they are reading this too.

Well, I was able to get a person from the Harrier Product team over a call a few weeks ago for both the infotainment quality issues and the PEPS (keyless locking) not working properly. I was told that he is the best from the Harrier Product team who can help to resolve the issues. Here is how he helped!!

For the infotainment issues, he came in a call that was arranged between the Visteon and I for all open issues related to BT Audio(Connection, reconnection, performance issues, etc). And whenever I asked him his views on all the issues, his response was - "Your feedback is taken in the right spirit".

Since then, Visteon has deployed two versions (16.60 and 17.11) in my car for testing purpose (I help them in testing their software so they install them first in my car and then roll-out for others, did same with 16.09 as well). But they have not fixed the issues!! All issues are static i.e. they always happen with any phone. So I raised their QA/Quality issue with the person and he told me - reconnection, performance issues, etc). And whenever I asked him his views on all the issues, his response was - "Your feedback is taken in the right spirit". I guess it will always remain in a "spirit", will never enter in a Tata Motor's Executive!!


And for the PEPS, the communication with him happened as below -
Tata Motors: Sir, PEPS is not working properly as there is radio/electromagnetic waves around your area. We tested the system in the workshop in the expected environment and it never failed there.
Me: I have faced this issue at multiple places, within the same city, I have also shared video evidence for each of the failure. The PEPS fails wherever I go.
Tata Motors: It has not failed a single time in the workshop.
Me: Prior to Harrier, I owned Nexon XZA+, and in Nexon it never failed. So could you please let me know why it is failing in harrier and not in Nexon? what is the difference?
Tata Motors: Sir, we cannot compare harrier with Nexon. They both are different platform. We will accept/work on an issue wherein we will see a different behavior between multiple Harrier cars.
Me: I am asking you to compare the technology and not the car so that Harrier's quality can be improved. But it seems you have a different stand on it.

Essence of this discussion looked like that they are suggesting me to move to a place where there is no mobile network or electricity (they have suggested that an electricity pole near my home is one of the culprit), likely a jungle OR I should do a time travel to Middle-Ages wherein there are no waves to interfer with the PEPS system

Originally Posted by Arkesh

However, as the issue lies with inadequate hardware, I believe some problems will stay forever. For example, frequent Bluetooth disconnection and system auto-reboot while you're still driving. I am using a Samsung phone and the only problem I face is one out of 10 times the BT connection will get continuously disconnected and reconnected automatically for 4-5 times straight. I believe the Tata team is listening to these because every time they are rolling out a software patch, most of the issues reported are being addressed. But what is disheartening is to see your 20+ lac prized possession is still a half-baked product at least on certain fronts.

Visteon is fixing the issues that have been reported to them. There is no proactiveness in them. There is an issue of back-button not working properly. From home screen, you enter in Audio settings and when you press back, you will come out to the settings section instead of home screen again. Someone has posted this issue in YoutTube way back in Nov/Dev 2020. Had they been proactive, they would have addressed this as well.

Would you be able to take a video and share it with me over email? As many times they are saying that its only your car/phone which has issues.

Visteon has told me that all the issues that have been reported are phone issues. It's not their software fault. I have asked them to provide me a technical explaination. It's been 7 days now and no response yet!!

I would like to request to everyone here if they can guide me how to get details of all harrier owners who have faced any of these issues. As whenever I complain, I get response like me/my-car/my-phone/my-locality has issues!! I need data to show them that its not just limited to a person or a locality but dont have the data.

[Nayan]

Originally Posted by kaushal-pandya

I would like to request to everyone here if they can guide me how to get details of all harrier owners who have faced any of these issues. As whenever I complain, I get response like me/my-car/my-phone/my-locality has issues!! I need data to show them that its not just limited to a person or a locality but don't have the data.

Hi, I am own Harrier XZ+ Dual Tone BS6 (MY Feb 2021).
I faced multiple issues with infotainment system. Most of them were pertaining the USB drive. I visited the service centre and they rectified those issues. Presently, the USB is working fine, except for sometimes, it starts playing on its own. For example, when I switch on the ignition and if the FM is playing, the USB drive is detected (as it happens each time after ignition is switched on) and starts playing the songs in USB drive. Then I need to to change it to FM again.
Do I plan to go to service station to get it rectified? Answer is no. Because I am afraid that TASS will give me new problem. When I went there last time to solve the USB problem, I got scratches on front bumper. So I have decided to live with USB issue.

And regarding the service quality of TASS. Now I don't know how to react after knowing the botched up repair of a Harrier. I don't want to disclose the identity. The front windshield of the Harrier was cracked due to impact of a stone while driving. The owner confirmed with the service centre that front windshield is available with the service centre and then handed over the car for repair. After fixing the windshield, the customer was informed that by mistake, wrong variant of windshield was used and the auto dimming IRVM could not be fixed to this windshield. And the correct variant of the Windshield is not available in the stock at present. So the customer took delivery of the car with wrong windshield, used it without IRVM for few days and after the correct windshield arrived, it was fixed. But after that, the automatic wiper function is not working. So the service centre told him to visit again and they will take 1 hour to solve the problem. Now the customer doesn't have enough time and energy in him, to go to service centre again to get it rectified. So he is using the car with manual wiper function in this monsoon season. He has planned to get the problem rectified during next scheduled service.

[swiftnfurious]

Originally Posted by car_guy1998

...
The TD car’s steering wheel leather was showing signs of age (pic attached) and rear seat’s armrest’s leather was also torn as well.

And, that TD car has run just 8k Kms and it’s a 6 months old vehicle as per the SA and sad to see the quality of the steering getting deteriorated...

This seems to be a 'tear' and not a 'wear' which may have happened due to a rough handling by some customers or at the service. Unless you have seen repeat issues / feedback online on these, may be wise to consider these as one-off case.

[Raphel]

Thanks for the advises!

Based on the current analysis, we have finally decided to visit 3 show rooms,

I can't say these are final short listed ones, as I am still confused. The optons might change, as well!

1. Hyundai for Tucson Diesel AT (It is on one gneration down)

2. Toyota for Fortuner Diesel AT (Wife feels, its too big)

3. BMW for X1 Diesel AT (She likes this and me too, but maintenance cost baffles me!)

Next Saturday its planned. Any advised pl.


We are not considering TATA Harrier, primarily due to their inherent and well known quality issues.

Jeep is a good compact SUV, but its sustanability is a question mark due to poor volumes.

Thanks in advance.

[AMG Power]

When every car made is a lemon, you can’t call it a lemon. It is the normal.

Imagine what a lemon would be...

[NotanF1driver]

Originally Posted by Raphel

Any advised pl.

Why not the Endeavour? Ford might also be having some sustainability issues in India, however, the Endeavour feels like a much better car (interiors) compared to Fortuner. Even the Compass's interiors feel very premium.

[Chanakya]

Reminds me of my only experience with Tata. Many moons ago, my friend from Ankleshwar wanted to buy the Safari. He took me with him to the Tata showroom in Vadodara, to check out the vehicle and take a TD. After entering the showroom, for a good ten minutes,we were ignored. I had to finally raise my voice and ask loudly " what do we have to do to get some attention?". A bored SA comes over and shows us the vehicle. After checking out the exteriors and the boot space, when my friend tried to open the front door to get into the driver's seat, the handle came loose in his hands. My jaw dropped ! The sheepish SA said "demo vehicle hai na, isliye aaisa hota hai" !! I told him and my friend that "It shouldn't happen especially to the demo vehicle" ! Obviously,my friend dropped the idea and purchased the Scorpio.

On a more philosophical note - Designing and manufacturing a solid car is much more than getting the units up and sold. There are many intangibles involved,like pedigree and organisational memory. Americans and the Germans have been making cars for more than a hundred years now.There's bound to be some difference between a car from a manufacturer who's been doing it for a century and another who has just recently entered the field (relatively speaking) because he thought he made good trucks. Add to that our civilisational response of 'chalta hai' to even engineering problems , which made me decide to not ever buy a Tata or a Mahindra vehicle. Tad unpatriotic but no one wants to be treared like the OP is being after paying 20L+. And oh, I don't fly Air India ever !