[shortbread]

I think the industry will be annoyed with anything that upsets the status quo. That said they can look at this as an opportunity. Massive revenues to be made from after-sales business by converting existing petrol vehicles to accommodate flexi fuel. I think its primarily a change in fuel lines, fuel pump and injectors. Will also infuse additional footfall/life into quiet dealerships.

A lot of public money is spent on purchasing crops to keep the farmers happy, most of which rots away in warehouses. May as well convert this into fuel and monetise what would otherwise be food waste.

Rest assured fuel prices are bound to go north, which hurts the pockets of the country and the countrymen. But as with anything this govt. does I am worried it 's the right intention executed in the most haphazard manner.

[Samurai]

I don't know about you guys. I am still waiting for this... the car that can run on garbage. That is true flex fuel engine.

https://youtu.be/vHake6w4Su0?t=20

[AZT]

Reading between the lines, I think the govt also expects the INR to fall further to boost exports. So global crude prices become irrelevant if your currency itself depreciates, not good for end users. As commented above, sugarcane is the among the most water intensive crops and that being incentivized posts a different set of problems. Water scarcity is the single biggest problem we may face this decade.

EV's don't offer recurring taxes to the govt in the form of fuel so now we are seeing the bio-ethanol push. This is a classic case of wanting to have your cake and eat it too, which never works out for anyone.

[AutoNoob]

Originally Posted by RedTerrano

I don't think it's (only) 6 months.
This was also known in March 2021 (at a minimum)

Correct.

But at that time it was a mere request. IIRC, no draft notification or timeline was ever published. As per established process for automobile regulations, any new regulation/ proposal has to follow a set of steps.

Draft Notification (with or without implementation timeline --> Consultation --> Revision (if necessary) --> Final Gazette Notification with defined implementation timeline.

Going by past regulation changes, 6 months or 1 year is too short time to develop new tech/ system. In case the a similar system exists in OEMs portfolio (eg. ABS, rear parking sensors) it may be mandated to be implemented (over entire portfolio) in such shorter time. Here too, supply chain capacity has to be checked.

Originally Posted by shortbread

I think the industry will be annoyed with anything that upsets the status quo.

Yes. And they should be shaken and stirred. But such thoughtless shocks don't do any good. I am all for pushing industry for necessary stuff. Wholeheartedly supported directions for BS6, Airbags, ABS, Rear Parking Sensors, even though some 'wise' industry leaders forecasted dooms day scenarios.

I think its primarily a change in fuel lines, fuel pump and injectors.

Changes may look simple from outside, however they aren't. Some of the steps are : Design change study, proto development, validation, final part development, homologation certification, dealer workshop manuals update, training of staff etc.

Six months or a year is too less time for such changes; more-so for powertrain related changes. Durability testing on dyno is vital step and it takes months. Heck, even homologation testing & certification at ARAI/ ICAT takes around 3 months.

A lot of public money is spent on purchasing crops to keep the farmers happy, most of which rots away in warehouses. May as well convert this into fuel and monetise what would otherwise be food waste.

I belong to such sugarcrane producing belt. Based on the realities on the ground I won't be too hopeful. Anyways, this point is out of scope of Team-BHP, so will cease further discussion.

[fhdowntheline]

I guess it simply means that there should be at least 1 variant in the model lineup that offers biofuel power, like some manufacturers do for CNG/LPG.

[RaghuVis]

Originally Posted by Samurai

I don't know about you guys. I am still waiting for this... the car that can run on garbage. That is true flex fuel engine.

Don't worry sir. The statements by ministers, their people and government as a whole is garbage enough to fuel these flex engines for eternity.

Sincerely hope the statements were made with emotions and is not going to be followed up strictly!

[anjan_c2007]

This same gentleman talked about compulsorily switching over to 100 % EV mobility by 2030, compulsory EV switch over for two wheelers by 31.03.2025 and now in July 2021 he said we are introducing hydrogen cell fuelled vehicles.

(2017)

100 % electric mobility by 2030 but soon backtracked

India will stick to its plan of having 100% electric mobility by 2030, road transport and highways minister Nitin Gadkari said. Gadkari said he cleared the electric vehicle policy on Wednesday. “Now NITI Aayog will send it to the cabinet in a couple of weeks (for its approval)," he added.

The official year for going all electric — which means all vehicles sold from then will be electric — remains 2030, the minister said. However, a top official said the government was aiming to advance the target.

Above quote from this link:-

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com...7.cms?from=mdr

(2019)

All two wheelers manufactured below 150 cc will be EV's come 31.03.2023, but again backtracked

To ensure rapid transition towards electric mobility, the Niti Aayog has proposed that two-wheelers below the capacity of 150 cc sold in the country after March 31, 2025, should be electric ones only, Parliament was informed Thursday.

In a written reply to the Lok Sabha, Road Transport and Highways Minister Nitin Gadkari also said the Aayog has also proposed that three-wheelers sold in the country should be electric ones only after March 31, 2023.

Above quote from this link:-

https://auto.economictimes.indiatime...dkari/70181536

(2020)

Backtracked from the major decision to introduce full electric mobility by 2030

The news from the UK will make India’s Minister for Road Transport, Highways and MSME’s Nitin Gadkari, think about how he was forced to roll back his advise to Indian auto manufacturers, to prepare for an ICE (Internal combustion Engine) free future by 2030. The 2030 figure was considered, and still probably is, too ambitious for India, considering the high stakes in an existing manufacturing base for ICE vehicles, as well as the lack of infrastructure to support a full transition to EV’s in that time.

Above quote from this link:-

https://www.iamrenew.com/green-trans...t-evs-in-2017/

(2021)

Now stresses on hydrogen fuel to power vehicles in July 2021

Nitin Gadkari stressed that the government is committed for supporting green hydrogen and that he will discuss the issue with the finance ministry and the Niti Aayog soon.

Centre is considering green hydrogen to fuel vehicles on Indian roads. Union minister Nitin Gadkari said his ministry is serious about green hydrogen as a potential transport fuel to serve as an alternative to electric vehicles in an effort to achieve India's climate goals.

Above quote from this link:-

https://auto.hindustantimes.com/auto...614474391.html

Now the latest diktat for all auto makers in August 2021 is that within six months flexi fuel vehicles have to roll out compulsorily as an option. Easier said than done ! Yes, there are vested interests at work in the ethanol trade. Hopefully, I will be able to soon post a link saying that he has again back tracked.

All of the above decisions to switch over to alternate fuels are suited but needed more research and pragmatism before announcements and declaration of deadlines. Generally, experts are not consulted these days, nor technical expert committes constituted and it's a copy and paste of diktats from somewhere far in the west.

[Quoter]

This is a welcome step, but it's too late in the day now. The world is moving away from even biofuels because of the food shortages that are happening by diversion of agricultural land to biofuel crops instead of food grains. Global manufacturers are putting all their energy on EV tech and will have limited capacity to develop India specific supply chain for bio fuel vehicles.
Hopefully the implementation of this policy will have a clear roadmap including availability of regular fuel for older vehicles.

[Black_Star]

This whole thread reminds me of Toyota's Hybrid FFV (Flex Fuel Vehicle) that they had introduced for the Brazilian market, as the name suggest it can run with petrol, 100% ethanol and electric power.

The easiest way to get out of this whole mess is to ask Toyota to bring this engine to India and offer to other car manufacturers as well, who knows it may become the next Fiat 1.3-litre Multijet diesel engine.

[arunramaswamy]

Instead of Biofuel, which requires additional R&D, why not encourage hybrid technology? I feel hybrid is more suited to our market than Biofuel. Technology is readily available. Can be doable within 6 months time-frame.

[RoadTrippin]

Seems like another hair brained announcement that is aimed at PR than real meaningful governance. As i understand it, If they are going to retain the mix to 10% Ethanol for Petrol and 5% for Diesel then most modern engines are compatible as is. However if they want to increase the ratio of bioethanol then that requires significant R&D and testing in India to make engines compatible. If it is the former, they can launch it tomorrow and everybody is ready, if it is the latter then literally nobody will be.

Also, another thing about Bioethanol is that it reduces fuel efficiency (FE) by about 34%, and at a 10% mix, your FE is going to go down by 3-3.5%. From an economic perspective, the cost of bioethanol mixed fuel needs to drop by 3-3.5% for this to be a cost neutral decision. which means that bioethanol needs to cost 34% lower than crude, at the same rate of taxation. Who is going to wager that this will not be the case and the dear common man will end up with a fatter bill, while those in power can pretend to have cared for the environment or whatever other nationalistic spin they want to impart.

[hellmet]

Such a move will be cost-effective for consumers, who are hassled by the high petrol prices, the Minister said, pointing out that a litre of bioethanol cost ₹65 as against ₹110 for petrol.

Well, you, honourable minister, are part of the reason petrol is ₹110. I'm currently paying in Canada - a relatively high-tax country, the equivalent of ₹79 per liter.

What's the guarantee that the current taxation on Ethanol won't be increased when the govt realizes they're losing out on taxes from petrol due to the switch?

Originally Posted by coolmind

The fuel is also less polluting and saves forex.
“We are committed to delivering vehicles with flex engine norms. We have taken a decision, we will make it mandatory by which there will be a flex-engine,” Mr. Gadkari said

I agree Ethanol is better for the environment when burnt and will make India less reliant on foreign oil. However, there is a limit to the knee-jerkiness that an industry can tolerate, and the current government keeps testing this limit frequently.

We need realistic dates that allow the industry time to adapt to regulations and help stick to a stable product portfolio.

[landcruiser123]

Besides food security, our precious tropical (farm)land can be put to much better use than growing crops for bio fuel.

Such wishy-washy policies/statements/diktats without any research or solid evidence will discourage long-term planning & investment by most corporations.


The immediate concern of fuel import should be targeted with hybrid vehicles which can run reasonable distanced on battery power alone.

[shortbread]

Originally Posted by hellmet

Well, you, honourable minister, are part of the reason petrol is ₹110. I'm currently paying in Canada - a relatively high-tax country, the equivalent of ₹79 per liter.

Oil and Gas production in Canada is surplus to requirements, so they're not worried about excess consumption. Plus it's a sparsely populated massive land mass, pollution isn't a cause for concern either.

India is a huge importer and increasing consumption hits the exchequer hard.

Pollution is the bigger worry and a recent report showed how it's affecting life expectancy. India needs to discourage petroleum consumption.

Originally Posted by landcruiser123

Besides food security, our precious tropical (farm)land can be put to much better use than growing crops for bio fuel.

India produces massive food surpluses every year especially when it comes to staples, all of which rot in govt. godowns.

[callmeneo]

Usually every OEM would have a model/variant for Brazil which runs on 100% Biofuel.

So development is not the actual bottle neck here. The actual bottleneck would be the testing and getting these models certified from ARAI within 6 months . No Type Approval certificate, No sale.