[fhdowntheline]

I dont understand the aspect of exploitation or cheating of customer. You can only cheat a customer if you make a false promise, like repainting a demo/damaged-in-transit car and selling it as factory fresh.

If Toyota is selling you a Glanza, it is selling you a Glanza, period. You know is 99 % Baleno, but how does that matter ? You are getting Toyota sales, service .

[lamborghini]

Honestly buyers today are more aware than they were years ago.
Choosing one brand over the other is now more about which one solves your requirements better.

The Glanza for instance could have better quality sales and service centers compared to Nexa for some buyers, others could be attracted by the 3 year standard warranty vs 2 year standard by Maruti, etc.

Same for Terrano vs Duster: the Terrano was a more mature design inside out.

Heck, most VWAG owners have had to choose between Skoda/VW before buying their respective vehicles.
In our case the A6 was far superior to the Superb. Engine aside; the better interiors, better build, better ride and handling, better kit, etc. were a big plus and seemed worth the money compared to the E Class & 5 series back then- forget the Superb.
Same for the ES : nicer interiors, quieter ride, better kit over the camry made it a good buy.
The Laura was picked over the Jetta mainly for the equipment on offer, along with pricing, and better service quality. The added practicality of the notchback was a plus. Similarly for the Kodiaq vs Tiguan All Space, I would have probably picked the Kodiaq if it were available; though we chose the 5 seater Tiguan over the Kodiaq for its smaller dimensions making it easier to park and live with in the city + massive price difference of nearly Rs. 7L (after discounts) for a set of seats that would never be used.

[anand.shankar]

Originally Posted by Livnletcarsliv

For eg - If I buy a Glanza, neither do I get the Toyota product experience nor the Suzuki maintenance/service experience. Compared to Toyota standards, is Glanza a true Toyota?

In the Indian context, this question was valid until they launched the Etios twins. With the Etios Toyota kind of diluted some of the respect they had at least according to me. I say this as an ex Etios owner. You can get Cheaping out lessons from that car, no matter what you say about crash ratings.

[Vijay T]

Originally Posted by Livnletcarsliv

We are witnessing this phenomenon for quite some time now.

India example 1 - same car, same characteristics but different brand
1. Nissan Terrano vs Renault Duster
2. Nissan Micra vs Renault Pulse
3. Suzuki Baleno vs Toyota Glanza
4. Upcoming Suzuki Ciaz vs Toyota Belta


However in example 1 - I personally feel and think that it is exploiting the ignorance of a customer. The brands are making a fool out of the customer per se. It is in bad books.

What do you think?

Even in example 1,it's good.
People buy experiences alongside cars.
Mostly decisions are based on heart rather than head.
It depends on perceived notion of premiumness one feels. While owning a particular branded car or going to particular showroom or particular ASC,one has had some set of experiences which makes him or her buy that rebadged car. Still he or she feels happy. That's the point.
Ultimately happiness counts. Heart over head.

[lsjey]

While the "badge engineering" is a well established theme, I have a couple of points/questions:

1. While the recipient of the badge engineering gets a new car quickly, to sell and increase revenue, footfall to sell their own products etc. What does the giver/source of the badge engineering gain? Extra revenue in terms of a few more units sold is all? If so then what motivation will they have to agree to such an arrangement?
2. Does the recipient of the badge engineering assemble the whole car in their factory, or is the car delivered from the giver/source of badge engineering's factories? Which means the recipient only does sales/marketing and service?

Regards,
lsjey

[landcruiser123]

Whether you like it or not, badge engineering is there to stay. The weaker companies (Stellantis=Fiat, Chrysler, and Peugeot) will do it more as they get into partnerships. Small changes can result in higher volumes without any changes to the core design.

Same with cell phone makers in China. They all make a dozen generic models. OEMs like Micromax used to contract the manufacturing and slap their logo.

Originally Posted by Hayek

There is a case study I have read nearly 2 decades ago on how the nearly identical Toyotas produced in the same plant got materially higher JD Power Initial Quality Scores and Resale Values than the Chevrolet equivalents....

There was one case where I read about the Toyota Matrix coming with Denso branded starters whereas the (GM) Pontiac Vibe (same car) had a (relatively) lower quality AC Delco starter.

[Lowflyer23]

Originally Posted by Hayek

Some errors in the first post though - while the Passat and the Superb are both built on the stretched version of the MQB platform, the A4 and A6 both have longitudinally mounted engines - and are a different platform (with some shared engines) from MQB.

The Superb and Passat use VAG's MQB platform while the Audi A4 and A6 are based on a superior MLB Evo platform.

[the.dogfather]

Brand engineering is present not just in cars but in most segments. When it comes to kitchen appliances, mobile phone accessories, and even phones, you would see the same product, manufactured by the same vendor being sold by different brands.

For many customers it does not matter which brand actually designs or manufactured the car. What matters to them is after sales. We often see that users stick to the same brand when buying an additional car or upgrading a car. The reason for it is usually a trouble free and good relationship with the brand and it's representatives(read dealerships).
For a person who has a Toyota Innova/Toyota Fortuner, they might need a smaller car for city use. While there are a lot of options in the market, if they can get one from Toyota where they already have a good trust with the service advisors and dealers, they would prefer that rather going for a different brand.

There is no cheating here as the cars are not being priced much differently for the brand in cars example 1 and even though the manufacturing process might be different, the warranty and service is still being handled by the badged brand.

When it comes to the example 2, here the price difference is the cost of exclusivity. The Lexus vs Toyota costing is the cost of exclusivity you get on the Lexus brand and same is the case with VW/ Audi/ Porsche. Even here, the importance given by a customer is for a brand and the image attached with it rather than the actual manufacturer. It doesn't matter to most that the Toyota is has similar specs of a Lexus, what matters is the owning and the ownership experience of a Lexus.

[MaheshY1]

Good.

All competition is good competition. Even if it's a sticker job, the carmaker must have done some homework and found enough potential customers to justify the cost. I don't like the Glanza and would buy the Baleno instead. But, I'm not the only customer in the world. If together, they have better chances of challenging the i20, then it's more competition. And more competition is good for consumers.

I prefer the redo type platform sharing and not the rebadge type. Like Kiger and Magnite, Sonet and Venue, Seltos and Creta. This creates more competition between the sister companies and it's good for us. Even if I don't want to buy either of those 2 twins, at least it helps me better negotiate for the car I want to buy.

[partishs]

Originally Posted by Porcupine

The two examples are actually vastly different in themselves. The cars in example 1 are mainly the same car with slightly different cosmetic appointments and branding. The cars in example 2 only share platforms and at times drivetrains, but everything else is vastly different.

But with that said the case for both is pretty similar where consumers have preferences and different reactions to certain brands, styling and just an overall ownership experience which build a strong case for doing what the manufacturers are doing - for example the troublesome Skoda aftersales service vs. VW.

I don't think any of it is exploitation or cheating, but in fact a smart way of sharing resources and creating synergies.

And a smart way to make fat profits without doing nothing much

[sureshkishore]

The fact that Glanza and Baleno are absolutely the same wouldn't deter me from choosing the Glanza over the Baleno.
Though I love the Baleno, am not a big fan of their service. Toyota on the other hand has given excellent experience over the years with their after sales service, though I am not happy with the Liva we have in the family.
So I get a reasonably priced well equipped car and with the best available after sales service.
This arrangement helps keep the service centres profitable as well I guess, so they will not close down business, so that's good too for customers.

Let manufacturers do whatever bit it takes to keep themselves and dealers afloat. Times are tough for the industry. We don't want toyota to fail too, do we?

[pradeep_mvpa]

Terrano is not exactly a simple rebadge. It is closer to the example 2 where Nissan made significant changes to the looks. Mechanicals are untouched though. In fact, even Renault too did some changes to make Pulse and Scala look different when they rebadged Micra and Sunny. But Toyota is too lazy to even change the alloy wheel design!

What really matters is, both examples are working well in India! But I hope Toyota put some effort to differentiate their rebadged cars from originals.

[kosjam]

Originally Posted by lsjey

While the "badge engineering" is a well established theme, I have a couple of points/questions:

1. While the recipient of the badge engineering gets a new car quickly, to sell and increase revenue, footfall to sell their own products etc. What does the giver/source of the badge engineering gain? Extra revenue in terms of a few more units sold is all? If so then what motivation will they have to agree to such an arrangement?
2. Does the recipient of the badge engineering assemble the whole car in their factory, or is the car delivered from the giver/source of badge engineering's factories? Which means the recipient only does sales/marketing and service?

Regards,
lsjey

1. It is generally the commitment for a certain number of units sold, irrespective of the actual number of units sold by the recipient. The source/giver is happy about the security of sale, and with higher volumes comes economies of scale. Other motivations could include technology transfer in an area the source/giver might be lacking. There might also be reverse platform sharing involved. Finally there is soft marketing, for example, a maruti salesperson might say, the baleno is so good, that even Toyota wants it.

2. Invariably the assembly is done at the source/giver factory itself, because a partially finished product if it is to be transported from the source/giver factory to the recipient factory, the costs involved would be prohibitive, the whole point of this badge engineering, (kind of an outsourcing) would be lost. There is an unspoken understanding that sale of a vehicle isn't actually the profit maker, but its the after sales and service which is the true cash cow. Thats the MAIN reason why extended warranties are pushed so fervently by these dealers.

[samee_arian]

While going through all these comments and observations one thing came to my mind. Not sure how relevant it is to this tread but was wondering how some products although almost same under the bonnet or with similar underpinnings are received very differently sometimes. For example TVS Wego and TVS Jupiter are almost the same scooters from the same manufacturer, but Jupiter ended up being a successful model and Wego ended up being a flop after initial success. I do understand the styling plays an important role, but for discerning users like most fellow BHPians, does it really make so much difference that one of the product ends up being a total flop.

Just wondering. Do let me know if someone has similar thought or can add more such examples.

[MaheshY1]

Originally Posted by partishs

And a smart way to make fat profits without doing nothing much

That's what running a for-profit business is all about - executing the 80-20 principle. If I can identify what 20% of my actions are going to bring me 80% results, then that's all I need to do consistently for a very long time to deliver huge ROI.

Often, simple, common sense things and decisions impact the bottomline in the most profound ways.