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Old 19th May 2022, 10:04   #1
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Default Ethanol blend in petrol to be raised to 20% in 3 years | What is the impact on existing cars?

"The Union Cabinet on Wednesday approved amendments to the National Policy on Biofuels, 2018, to advance the date by which fuel companies have to increase the percentage of ethanol in petrol to 20%, from 2030 to 2025. The policy of introducing 20% ethanol will take effect from April 1, 2023."

Source : https://www.thehindu.com/news/nation...le65426515.ece

While manufacturers can design the newer generation engines to take into account of this, what will be its impact to existing petrol cars in the market?

I own a 2021 model Jeep Compass Petrol and here is what is stated in the owners manual. I assume it might be similar for all petrol engines available in market currently.

Quote:
ETHANOL
The manufacturer recommends that your vehicle be operated on fuel containing no more than 10% ethanol. Purchasing your fuel from a reputable supplier may reduce the risk of exceeding this 10% limit and/or of receiving fuel with abnormal properties.

CAUTION!
Use of fuel with ethanol content higher than 10% may result in engine malfunction, starting and operating difficulties, and materials degradation. These adverse effects could result in permanent damage to your vehicle.

Last edited by GTO : 20th May 2022 at 08:02. Reason: Don't need so much bold text :). Hurts the eyes. Thanks
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Old 19th May 2022, 10:29   #2
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Default re: Ethanol blend in petrol to be raised to 20% in 3 years | What is the impact on existing cars?

Itís impossible to tell what effect this has on existing cars. The respective manufacturers need to list each car/model by year and whether it is ok to use a higher ethanol content.

To provide some content: when Europe went from E5 to E10 some years ago, that is exactly what all manufacturers did. Till this day all manufacturers will have website where you will be able to verify if your particular car is able to run on E10.

As a rough rule of thumb, anything over 25-30 years is likely to have serious problems with E10. In fact, any car running on E10 is going to have problems when left sitting idle for weeks at an end. E20 will make that a lot worse, for any car.

We are fortunate in the sense we can still get E5 with zero percent ethanol. Most premium brands such as Shell, BP and Esso offer their 98 Octane fuel without any ethanol. I use it for all my four classic/young timer cars.

There are also several additives on the market. You add it every time you fill up. None of it works a 100%. At best it slows the problem of water separation and detoriation down.

I wonder if this policy to increase ethanol was done after consultation with the car manufacturers? Have any of them responded yet to this latest Cabinet amendment?

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Old 19th May 2022, 10:30   #3
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Default re: Ethanol blend in petrol to be raised to 20% in 3 years | What is the impact on existing cars?

I have been raising this topic since the last few months (~8 months) on team-bhp and also in my office circle. It seems nobody is bothered about this impact.

But I certainly feel sorry for those who bought extended warranty for their cars, which would be void once E20 fuel rollout starts in Apr 2023. To be frank OEMs fooled people in buying extended warranty at least for petrol vehicles, since they knew E20 fuel rollout from past 2 yrs.

According to my knowledge on E20 fuel impact on BSIV and BSVI vehicles (existing vehicles), expect to have performance/fuel efficiency drop of around 5-10%. On BS-III vehicles (like in my case), the drop is around 10-15%. Not to mention the impact on hardware, especially on rubber fuel lines(connecting hoses) and condensation of water in fuel tank. There would be some impact on fuel injection equipment as well, but probably wouldn't be noticeable.

Last edited by libranof1987 : 20th May 2022 at 15:47. Reason: Grammar.
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Old 19th May 2022, 12:24   #4
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Default re: Ethanol blend in petrol to be raised to 20% in 3 years | What is the impact on existing cars?

I don't think they will force pumps to dispense only E20 right? Because if that is the case there is nothing environmentally friendly about it as people will be forced to buy newer cars.
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Old 19th May 2022, 12:44   #5
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Default re: Ethanol blend in petrol to be raised to 20% in 3 years | What is the impact on existing cars?

For the European car market extensive research has been carried out. A Dutch institute (must be utterly reliable! &#128517 has found that all cars in the EU from 2011 should be able to run on E20.

https://ec.europa.eu/research-and-in...rbon-emissions

That is apart from all the other controverse around bio fuel. Is it really good for the environment? Performance loss, lower fuel efficiency. Loss of tax revenue (most countries donít/canít tax the ethanol as they do the carbon fuel component)

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Old 19th May 2022, 12:54   #6
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Default re: Ethanol blend in petrol to be raised to 20% in 3 years | What is the impact on existing cars?

Quote:
Originally Posted by navrddy View Post
But certainly feel sorry for those who bought extended warranty for their cars, Since E20 fuel rollout starts in Apr.2023. Now extended warranty would be void.
To be frank OEM's fooled people in buying extended warranty at-least for petrol vehicles, since they knew E20 fuel rollout from past 2 yrs.
Are you sure if extended warranty will be void , due to reasons that are regulatory in nature. Did you happen to see anything in the Terms? Kindly share.
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Old 19th May 2022, 12:59   #7
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Default re: Ethanol blend in petrol to be raised to 20% in 3 years | What is the impact on existing cars?

Quote:
Originally Posted by IshaanIan View Post
I don't think they will force pumps to dispense only E20 right? Because if that is the case there is nothing environmentally friendly about it as people will be forced to buy newer cars.
Vaguely remember reading that both will be sold. However, the Exx fuels will be a little cheaper.
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Old 19th May 2022, 13:01   #8
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Default re: Ethanol blend in petrol to be raised to 20% in 3 years | What is the impact on existing cars?

It is not clear, whether we will have seperate pumps dispensing e20 and normal e5/10 fuel.
Already most of petroleum dealers have clearly indicated that it is not possible to have seperate fuel tanks for 2 different gasoline types in addition to the existing infrastructure.
But I did come across an article few months back, stating that there will only be gasoline e20 dispensing units. I will share that, later.

Also regarding topic of warranty void, this is very gray area. Vehicle voids warranty if user puts in e20 fuel in existing vehicles. Whether it is by legislation or by user. It does not specify. I tried to get some clarification on this topic from OEMs. No one is ready to answer that currently.
Hope for the best.

Attaching goi report.

Last edited by navrddy : 19th May 2022 at 13:07. Reason: Additional documentation
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Old 19th May 2022, 13:13   #9
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Default re: Ethanol blend in petrol to be raised to 20% in 3 years | What is the impact on existing cars?

Quote:
Originally Posted by navrddy View Post

Attaching goi report.
Kindly attach the report.

Was the SIAM consulted during the legislation? Or was it again done in a way so as to benefit Maruti Suzuki to be ready ahead of time? With every domain becoming technology heavy, I doubt if our bureaucrats hire or take advise from SMEs in respective domains before formulation of national policies. It is going to create a graveyard of old/non-compatible yet, fit cars and worse, jugaad/modified/retrofitted cars to run on E20 which probably pollutes more!

Last edited by lapis_lazuli : 19th May 2022 at 13:36.
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Old 19th May 2022, 13:34   #10
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Default re: Ethanol blend in petrol to be raised to 20% in 3 years | What is the impact on existing cars?

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Originally Posted by lapis_lazuli View Post
It is going to create a graveyard of old cars and worse, juggad cars to run on E20 which probably pollutes more!
Forget the older cars, what about the cars sold today to customers (which are taxed to the brim) but are not ready for E20 fuel? Junking that would be the most painful.

I believe we should formulate a list of all existing cars in the market, which are E20 ready so as to keep prospective car buyers informed.

I wonder why we have to fast forward such drastic measures. Oil companies are only one part of the equation. Wonder how consumers, car manufacturers are completely left out of such big decisions.
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Old 19th May 2022, 14:02   #11
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Default re: Ethanol blend in petrol to be raised to 20% in 3 years | What is the impact on existing cars?

uploading,Ethanol blending roadmap by NITI.
I agree E20 Blending advancing of time-line has no practical approach.
This is sole reason, i have delayed car buying this year. I don't want end up in product which is not compatible few yrs down the line or to buy e5/e10 at high prices than normal prices of gasoline.
I guess GOI approach 'might' be E5/E10 might be available as select fuel at higher costs along with 95 octane fuel.

personally, i will either buy diesel or dont buy until this topic has some clarity officially.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf EthanolBlendingInIndia_compressed.pdf (3.42 MB, 95 views)
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Old 19th May 2022, 15:55   #12
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Default re: Ethanol blend in petrol to be raised to 20% in 3 years | What is the impact on existing cars?

Quote:
Originally Posted by navrddy View Post
uploading,Ethanol blending roadmap by NITI.
Thanks for the report. It does clearly mention:

1) Vehicles hence-after (mid 2022 onwards), could have fuel system components able to tolerate E20, depending on clear roadmap foe E20 and upwards, deployment.

2) Question of retrofitting older vehicles which are E10 : It is not feasible, hence E10 fuel will continue to be dispensed.

3)Yes, E20 WILL harm your engine sooner or later, if it is only E5/10 compatible.
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Old 19th May 2022, 19:35   #13
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Default re: Ethanol blend in petrol to be raised to 20% in 3 years | What is the impact on existing cars?

Quote:
Originally Posted by navrddy View Post
uploading,Ethanol blending roadmap by NITI.
I agree E20 Blending advancing of time-line has no practical approach.
This is sole reason, i have delayed car buying this year. I don't want end up in product which is not compatible few yrs down the line or to buy e5/e10 at high prices than normal prices of gasoline.
I guess GOI approach 'might' be E5/E10 might be available as select fuel at higher costs along with 95 octane fuel.

personally, i will either buy diesel or dont buy until this topic has some clarity officially.
Thanks for sharing the report. Interesting read indeed. Though the downsides caused to existing engines are known, there are not many action items in that regard. You might be right, it's a propaganda to claim higher fuel prices for cleaner fuel ( of course the affluent who buy better cars will go for it ).

We can't rely on diesel either. Almost all researches now stopped for diesel engines for cars. With more stringent govt regulations, we may not be able to sell decade old diesel cars.

Logical alternative is EV. Hope it matures sooner.
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Old 19th May 2022, 23:49   #14
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Default re: Ethanol blend in petrol to be raised to 20% in 3 years | What is the impact on existing cars?

Quote:
Originally Posted by navrddy View Post
.

personally, i will either buy diesel or dont buy until this topic has some clarity officially.
Are we sure diesel won't be affected. I'm a novice at this but I think I read somewhere that diesel can also be blended with ethanol and a quick Google search calls it e-diesel. So is it that our government is going to blend ethanol with petrol only and leave diesel alone.

Also is it not necessary for the government to announce whether the current crop of cars being sold will be compatible with E20 fuel or not for public interest.

Last edited by suhaas307 : 20th May 2022 at 12:58. Reason: spacing for improved readability
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Old 20th May 2022, 11:45   #15
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Default Re: Ethanol blend in petrol to be raised to 20% in 3 years | What is the impact on existing cars?

What might happen by 2025 is -

Petrol with Ethanol blend will sell for Rs.110 / litre (current rate).
And Petrol with 0% ethanol will sell for Rs.150 / litre.

People who care for the vehicle and could afford higher priced petrol will buy Petrol with 0% ethanol.
Others will be either forced to sell their vehicle or live with uncertainty.
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