[shancz]

Originally Posted by Gypsian

If I am not wrong they were the only two European companies who had provided an option for MT in their product range until recently. Sad to see them gradually pulling plug on MT.

VW in its higher models like the Tiguan has already moved to DSG only and I suspect the same would apply to future non India 2.0 models.

Generally speaking the trend is moving towards turbo petrols + AT(primarily dual clutch) and I don't think that's a bad thing in terms of experience as the ATs are tuned to mask the turbo lag quite well. They're expensive but going by how much today's top 10 retail for, that isn't a concern especially for companies which cater for more premium customers like VW/Skoda.
Even overseas barring legendary models like the Golf where they won't dare to touch the MT and fabric seats, rest all would eventually be converted to DSG only before switching to alternate powertrains.

On the "faking" gearshifts I have a slightly different view. If done right it will enhance the experience. I have driven a BMW 316i where the engine note was "piped in" and it was executed well so I am open to them trying it as long as they do it well. Would be weird on an EV though.

Here's a video of the Honda City Hybrid faking shifts and IMHO it doesn't look bad at all
Watch from 9:00 for the 0-100 dash with audio.
Credits to Providers :

DDS

[Gypsian]

This thread is not about which is better ? AT or MT. It’s all about survival of MT and that there is no absolute substitute to MT albeit AMT coming little close.
Some die-hard drivers say you aren't really driving a car unless you are in a stick shift and there is this small section of drivers, mostly old drivers who have an era of experience are till date resistant to change to AT. As an MT lover all that I can do is to hope that MT co-exists with other transmissions.

[shancz]

Originally Posted by Gypsian

As an MT lover all that I can do is to hope that MT co-exists with other transmissions.

Ditto and I have been in situations where the MT would've been a delight to use while the AT needed to be kept busy to retain engine braking.

Given an option I would go with the MT too and I do hope the same

[Gypsian]

Originally Posted by shancz

Ditto and I have been in situations where the MT would've been a delight to use while the AT needed to be kept busy to retain engine braking.

Given an option I would go with the MT too and I do hope the same

It’s just that the generations to come must not loose out on the joy of learning to use clutch and stick. Ofcourse even though cooking on an oven is easy and fast and overall advantageous, can it replace the taste of your mom’s or grandmom’s food cooked on wood fire? May sound bizarre but such is the difference b/w MT and EV or modern AMT.

[shancz]

Originally Posted by Gypsian

It’s just that the generations to come must not loose out on the joy of learning to use clutch and stick.

Sadly it has already happened to a great extent and will increase further and someday hearing an ICE will be an event.

In my experience most of the new drivers of today and most likely of the future are connected to the car but disconnected from the automobile itself

While it feels weird to us but it's just that its not what fascinates them a lot.
Although it's deja vu since I have already experienced it with motorcycles/two-wheelers

But this is change, for good or worse will depend on whom we ask.

[lionheart_mm]

Like it or not, it is. With the kind of road and traffic in India an automatic makes sense for most users. I've become used to driving AT abroad, and recently came to vacation in India and has to drive our manual Honda city for a trip. I have to rest the whole next day due to left leg pain.

[yedukrishnan199]

I am of the opinion that It is truly going to be the end of manual transmission as the world is moving on towards greener technologies from hybrids to hydrogen powered cars to EVs , of course as fossil fuel powered cars are gradually replaced by these greener fuels, the world is surely moving on towards the end of manual transmission. However the same won't be soon but over the next couple of decades or so.

[mvadg]

Originally Posted by Gypsian

... Level 3 virtual turbocharging and tuning(tooning) ?

These discussions recur on TBHP periodically. I've said this before, but let me repeat it again. I used to read a lot of car mags and somehow got brainwashed into believing that manual transmissions were "the" thing. After buying my MT car, I started regretting it almost immediately. Enthusiasts are a different breed, for an ordinary person, a reliable, fuel efficient, automatic transmission vehicle is best.

If AMT engineers were allowed enough freedom to perfect the AMT without being hobbled by extreme budget constraints, I'm sure AMTs would evolve to overcome their current shortcomings with regard to bumper to bumper creeping in typical city traffic.

In future, in a world full of EVs, we will forget this "gearbox" completely. If ICE powered cars ever make a comeback, you can be sure that they will not be able to sell them with manual transmissions.

[vharihar]

Originally Posted by mvadg

If AMT engineers were allowed enough freedom to perfect the AMT without being hobbled by extreme budget constraints, I'm sure AMTs would evolve to overcome their current shortcomings with regard to bumper to bumper creeping in typical city traffic.

What exactly are the shortcomings of AMT in bumper to bumper traffic? Can you please elaborate for my benefit or point me to a link?

[Laidbackakki]

So I was a "manual head" for the first 12 years of my driving. Drove a few AMT's and just hated them. The shifts were jerky and absolutely no confidence while quick overtaking. I still hate the AMT's. Maybe I am unable to get the timing right while shifting the gears in manual mode( Having not spent enough time driving AMTs I suppose) but when the opportunity to own a skoda TC came, i pounced on it, reason being I was just blown away by the smoothness and the quick response. The more I drove it the less inclined I became to drive the manual car in my garage. So in my case my enthusiastic needs were taken care by the sports mode of the TC. So recently drove a Tuscon auto on a ghat section and my love for the manuals came back. I actually lacked confidence while doing some overtakes. So what I think is this- if you want to be absolutely confident while driving a friends car while on trips etc manual is the best to have your general confidence while driving. The confidence while driving autos purely depends on how good a auto gearbox is. So I feel MT is going to stay for the forceable future. So OEMs going the EV/Hybrid route will see manuals phased out.

[Gypsian]

Originally Posted by mvadg

Enthusiasts are a different breed, for an ordinary person, a reliable, fuel efficient, automatic transmission vehicle is best.

Exactly, enthusiasts are a different breed but are not a rare breed and Team BHP members are the living example. I am advocating on behalf of MT lovers.
The instant thread is by no means MT vs AT. Kindly my beloved members do not misconceive this thread as MT vs AT. I very much subscribe to the contention that there are lot of leverages offered by AT or AMT over MT undoubtedly. I am by no means against AT, infact I do own more AMT cars than MT ones.
All that this thread pertains to is about survivability of MT as there are drivers who any day vouch for MT. For instance some percentage of drivers still don’t like push button start and prefer key twisting start mechanism. It’s all subjective and boils down to individual tastes and preferences.

[harshbhat]

Can we have a voting for different transmissions?
1. AMT
2. MT
3. iMT
4. CVT
5. DCT
6. AT

[avira_tk]

MT would have been toast ages ago if it weren't for the dreadful Maruti ATs that ruined their reputation among the public. There is simply no reason to buy manual given our traffic conditions , paddles are the only thing you might occasionally need for better control.

This is technology that is unstoppable, I'm old enough to remember power steering described as non enthusiastic, no one will say that today. Hydraulic power steering feels lazy in comparison to dynamic steering. A decade ago reviewers raved about the confidence given by heavy hydraulic steering, now they tell you how precise dynamic steering is, change is the only constant.

[mvadg]

Originally Posted by vharihar

What exactly are the shortcomings of AMT in bumper to bumper traffic? Can you please elaborate for my benefit or point me to a link?

Because the AMT is slipping the clutch and remaining in a higher gear in bumper to bumper traffic, it tends to wear out the clutch. Unlike a human, it has no idea how to optimize this low speed driving. This is mostly because our manufacturers are focused on fuel economy.

More here:
https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techn...-amt-woes.html (Maruti's AMT woes)

[7000plusrpm]

MT in India is not going anywhere.
Generally,

• Most car owners employ a driver to take them from point A to point B.

• So, they do not care about driving comfort.

• MT will result in a higher KM per liter

AT will eat into the MT share but end of MT, I doubt that.