[Gypsian]

Is it the beginning of the end of manual transmission stick shifting in cars ? Will the "stick" be put to rest in the near future?

These doubts arise if one peruses the engine and transmission specifications of the new cars and their model line up. Recent cars launched like Scorpio N, XUV700, Skoda Slavia etc manufacturers have shown step motherly treatment towards manual transmissions.

For instance Mahindra Scorpio N top variant is not equipped with manual transmission and if an enthusiast desperately wants to opt manual transmission, he will loose out on other features and gizmos of top end vehicles. Similarly the Volkswagen Virtus or Skoda Slavia with their 1.5 litre petrol turbo engine are equipped with DSG gear box. What precludes these manufacturers from providing top trims with manual transmission? Or has the auto industry conspired to slowly but surely make us prepared to get rid of manual transmission? Will the stick shifts fade into obscurity?

Hope the manual transmission does not join the automotive fossil record even before the internal combustion engine.

[Rajeevraj]

Of course that is the case. The shift towards automatics has been slowly and surely happening over the last several years. Most people out there just want a car for a point A to B hassle free commute. If an automatic is given without too much of a budget or mileage impact( which is what has happened with the advent of AMTs and more efficient TCs, CVTs and DCTs), most people are preferring that. Not to mention the insane traffic across most cities.

Also, I don't think being an enthusiast is only about the transmission. Even within this forum, if you look at the AT vs MT threads, you can see the marked shift in preference towards ATs. In most cases a fast automatic with tiptronic or paddle shifters is good enough to satisfy an enthusiast from a drive perspective.

MT variants for any model will keep reducing and and some point it will make no economic sense for the manufacturer to keep it running and it will get killed. Will take time, but definitely will happen.

[attinder]

The extra premium of AT over MT used to be the deal breaker. Now it is matter of choice for most people.

[AZT]

I would say AMT / IMT will become the new manual eventually. MT will stay on base variants always, just to show the low starting ex-showroom price.

Even in used market, demand for AT is much more.

[shancz]

MTs will end when EVs/Hybrids(like the City) become mainstream.

Till then the MTs will happily exist in mass market/budget cars.
Expensive cars might end up with the MTs only in their base versions as the target audience for those is primarily cab and fleet operators.

Or looking at VW/Skoda like you mentioned this has already begun.

[Gypsian]

Originally Posted by Rajeevraj

Also, I don't think being an enthusiast is only about the transmission. Even within this forum, if you look at the AT vs MT threads, you can see the marked shift in preference towards ATs. In most cases a fast automatic with tiptronic or paddle shifters is good enough to satisfy an enthusiast from a drive perspective.

Very true. But there are still a lot of consumers who are wanting manual transmissions and also some particular cars which are best enjoyed with manual transmission. Classic example being the beamers of the bygone era were best enjoyed with stick shifting which purists reminisce even today. That apart transmissions such as DSG are vulnerable to failure, which is why TFSI or TSI engined cars with manual transmission are most sought after.

From the economic point of view I completely agree with you as the manufacturers go by herd mentality.

[harshbhat]

Very interesting thread. I recently bought a new car with DCT transmission. I already own an MT car and I was actually looking to buy a manual car again. When I test drove DCT car, discounting the convenience of not having to shift the gears(which was not a concern for me), I felt the shifts are very quick leading to smooth and quick acceleration which led to sportier driving experience. Clubbing it with cruise control, car automatically downshifts when it needs to pick-up speed for the set speed. As others mentioned, now people don't mind paying small premium for automatics.

However, I really enjoy driving manuals also. There is connection to the drive when you're shifting gears. I think both manuals and automatics should co-exist as they offer different driving experience. I don't think automatics are "upgrade" or replacement to manual. They just offer different driving experience unless you don't know how to drive a manual or a knee problem in left leg

[Gypsian]

Originally Posted by harshbhat

However, I really enjoy driving manuals also. There is connection to the drive when you're shifting gears. I think both manuals and automatics should co-exist as they offer different driving experience. I don't think automatics are "upgrade" or replacement to manual. They just offer different driving experience unless you don't know how to drive a manual or a knee problem in left leg

Exactly. Both manual and automatics must co-exist. Automatics are not a substitute to manuals. Consumers must decide what they need based on individual preferences. Further any newbie beginning to learn driving IMHO must begin from manual cars, so that they understand basic concepts like gearing, RPM, engine breaking, clutch mechanism etc which are completely plastered in automatics.

Originally Posted by AZT

I would say AMT / IMT will become the new manual eventually. MT will stay on base variants always, just to show the low starting ex-showroom price.

Even in used market, demand for AT is much more.

Well AMT is not an exact substitute for manual, to an extent better than traditional automatics. Considering the ease of use definitely AMT has an edge over MT which is why the inclination towards AMT is more.

Originally Posted by shancz

Or looking at VW/Skoda like you mentioned this has already begun.

If I am not wrong they were the only two European companies who had provided an option for MT in their product range until recently. Sad to see them gradually pulling plug on MT.

[Porcupine]

It's slowly been happening for a while. More and more people now prefer buying ATs. However there will be a dramatic shift and the actual end of Mts once combustion engines are no more. EVs don't need transmissions, and definitely won't have MTs.

[harshbhat]

Originally Posted by Gypsian

Exactly. Both manual and automatics must co-exist. Automatics are not a substitute to manuals. Consumers must decide what they need based on individual preferences. Further any newbie beginning to learn driving IMHO must begin from manual cars, so that they understand basic concepts like gearing, RPM, engine breaking, clutch mechanism etc which are completely plastered in automatics.

Great points. I want to mention another thing. We don't use 'manual' mode in automatic transmissions. Because, we can't match computer shifting speed and accuracy. If you want to shift gears, buy a manual car

[mvadg]

May be there will be a "virtual manual mode" for EVs like the totally unnecessary paddle shifters on CVT equipped cars. VMT with different levels - Level 1 - only virtual ICE rev sounds; Level 2 - ICE rev sounds and rough shift simulation...

[Gypsian]

Originally Posted by harshbhat

Great points. I want to mention another thing. We don't use 'manual' mode in automatic transmissions. Because, we can't match computer shifting speed and accuracy. If you want to shift gears, buy a manual car

That’s well put humorously . “STICK” is our PICK.

Originally Posted by mvadg

May be there will be a "virtual manual mode" for EVs like the totally unnecessary paddle shifters on CVT equipped cars. VMT with different levels - Level 1 - only virtual ICE rev sounds; Level 2 - ICE rev sounds and rough shift simulation...

Good one mate. Now my two cents to it :-
So why not virtual fuel filling as well ?
And why not virtual periodic engine oil and transmission oil , all filters etc changes ? and Level 3 virtual turbocharging and tuning(tooning) ?

[landcruiser123]

People spending big $$$ will buy AT only. Offering MT is simply pointless.

Can't believe I am saying this-

While I love shifting gears manually, automatics offer great everyday convenience with added performance. Ford's 10-speed AT left me super impressed over 500+ miles of driving a Mustang and cargo vans in the recent past. The ZF 8-speed AT in BMWs is brilliant too.

[vharihar]

Am considering upgrading my 11 year old petrol Hyundai i10 automatic (TC, with 45K on the odo) to a Tata Tiago XZA (Petrol AMT), after noticing that my i10 has been giving a pathetic 6 kmpl FE in Blore city.

I don't want to spend too too much (it's for my daughter for her office commute), but yet don't want to skimp too much either.

I drove my niece's Tiago AMT last 2 days for about 25 kms, and liked it quite a bit. The claimed jerk in AMT upon auto-shifting was too negligible to bother me.

Is the Tiago AMT a good car? Any downsides with AMT vehicles? (From reliability (ie. long term ownership problems), maintenance, etc PoV)

[harshbhat]

Originally Posted by Gypsian

That’s well put humorously . “STICK” is our PICK.

Main reason for me to keep my old car is to have the "stick". With excellent automatic options now, we may not buy new manual cars. I like the DCT, which has the manual feel of shifts. Combine it with modes(eco, normal, sport) we can just use the right leg for shifting gears