[gauravdgr8]

Originally Posted by Kedrock

Dear all

I request you to share your perspective on the topic.

So, why repainting a panel (on a new car) is made into a big deal?

Need your perspective to handle such queries in a better way to ensure customer satisfaction while not digging a whole into the pocket.

Regards

Well when the dealers disregard Supreme Court's ruling on handling charges, why should a customer not disregard a car which is not in factory condition?

PS: no offense to you. Just my thought.

[VijayAnand1]

The question is, why aren't dealership/sales associates willing to talk about the car that had incurred transit damages, prior? Why isn't the manufacturer notified of a car that has undergone transit damage? Why is the policy of backtracking still in place? Isn't there a policy in place for a vehicle that has undergone transit damage? If so, isn't it the responsibility of the dealer/manufacturer to duly oust the vehicle in question for a thorough inspection and sent it back to the manufacturer for a refurbishment? Why isn't there a system in place.

There is a fine line between trust and treachery, and a dealership cannot use altruism and escapism to hoodwink a customer. It is the sole responsibility of the dealer in question to duly record the damages, report it back to the manufacturer, (liable to any compensation borne from his side) to make sure the vehicle in question is deemed saleable as per factory spec and events chronographed.

No dealer will accept 20 lakhs worth of 500 Rupees patched up using cellotape, it's still 500 Rupees, is it not?

To all the dealers/sideswipes/spectators of OEMs, it is your responsibility to make sure your vehicle reaches the showroom exactly how it left your factory warehouse. You and your dealers are here to make money, and there is no two ways about it. You don't own your business, your customers do.

There is a huge difference between a "DEFECT and a DAMAGE" A minor defect every now and then is acceptable and can be considered a one-off, a damaged, defective and rectified one is not and I think it's high time dealers do understand the importancy and liability of what they think they are doing.

In short, our money is perfect, your car is not. You are responsible!

Cheers!
VJ

[pavi]

I hope noone finds out your dealership name and comes up with 'beware of this dealership, they paint panels in new cars' post or even a new thread. Believe me it would take a place on our home page, due to the enormous response .

What is the inference here?? Beware of being honest always, some times to maintain 'trust' you would need to stop being so much transparent. No matter what ever ethics are being told here, you know how it should work right. Believe me people, that's how the world works. I don't think everyone here will be so much transparent about the incidents/accidents that had happened to their cars when they sell their cars.

Note: I am not someone who owns a dealership, just a salaried guy who believes money can buy happiness, just make sure you buy the 'right' items.

[Adam]

See, I know about an incident on my friends car, apparently it was repainted at dealer end post some minor scratch or dent, it wasn't communicated to the owner and in this case owner came to know this incident when he took it to the same dealership almost 4 years later for exchange, quoting " your car had some repainting done on the hood so the exchange amount is reduced by xx amount " they shown the paint thickness variation too, now is it a BIG DEAL?

I know it depends on dealer to dealer, but vastly in India repainted panel is considered as inferior not just by customer , even by dealer too.

[Jeroen]

I just don’t understand why repairs can’t be done properly. Here in Europe when a dent or a scratch or even a substantial damage gets fixed, you can’t tell the difference with new.

There is no reason why a scratch properly repaired and resprayed, should look any different from the factory finish. In fact, a good paint shop will simply match the standard of the factory finish.

But aside from this I think it is just sentiment and feeling. Whereas you seem to want it approach rationally. Huge mistake. Let’s face it, apart from buying a home, buying a car tends to be one of the biggest purchase we make during our life.

I find it absolutely totally and utterly unacceptable that when I hand over thousand's and thousands of my hard earned Euro’s to a guy selling me a brand new car, even the smallest of details is incorrect. I will walk away if they haven’t waxed the car properly and there is some dust on it. And I will only be walking away to get my flame thrower to burn down their place and all the idiots in it who don’t take my business seriously!

Yes, you are damn right, customer will make a big thing. Lucky you, because I would make humongous scene with anything, no matter how small out of order! At the sort of money any car cost nothing other than total perfection will do. You can’t deliver perfection, get out of the game. Or at the bare minimum don’t expect me, your customer to suffer in any way for your incompetence.

I would be hugely offended if you would offer me a discount because you messed up the delivery process. I don’t want an extra discount, I want a brand new, spotless car!!

Many years ago, I ordered a blue Audi A6 avant. When I came to pick it up, it looked stunning, absolutely spotlesss, waxed and detailed to perfection. I had told the sales guy about the flame thrower thingy when I signed the purchase agreement.

So everything was perfect, except they got the colour blue wrong. There where two variants and they got it wrong. We checked the purchase order and it had the correct colour code. So their fault. The sales guy told me: I am truly sorry for this, if you would take this vehicle I will offer you such a huge discount, you won’t be taking out your flame thrower.

I just walked a way and left him with this car. It was a very very nice car. But it was not what I ordered, it wasn’t what I had been looking forward to during the 6 months delivery time.

So my advise to you as a dealer would be:

Be very cognisant of the emotional part of buying a car for many of your customers. Whether it is a tiny scratch or some major damage, you will have ruined their new car experience! That is the essence, nothing rational about it. We ordered a new car, we paid a huge amount of money, we waited for the delivery, we dreamed about our new car. We went through the brochures endlessly, we were already familiar with any and all details before it was delivered. Then you delivered it scratched, poorly repaired. And you seem surprised your customers take it out on you?

I’d they don’t want the car, say I totally understand that and refund every single rupee already paid and a decent compensation for inconvenience.

If they want to discuss a discount or a new car, that is fine too. The most important part is letting your customers know you have screwed up big time and you are open to make amends.

Good luck, let us know what changes you make in how you deal with these issues.

Jeroen

[IshaanIan]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

I just don’t understand why repairs can’t be done properly. Here in Europe when a dent or a scratch or even a substantial damage gets fixed, you can’t tell the difference with new.

I am no expert myself but I think this might be the reason:

Originally Posted by Kedrock

4. A panel repaint costs 2000-3000 INR. Customer's discount expectation has no ends. For common colors like white, black, grey and red paint is matched perfectly and a naked eye won't be able to tell. Fancy colors like pearl white are tricky to match and have higher chances of getting caught.

At 2-3 thousand rupees per panel, the value for labor is so low that you will have to pay some one else just to inspect each paint job since no one in India will aspire to paint cars considering each panel only costs 2-3 thousand rupees and considering they would not aspire to do it, when they do, it is often done with zero thought or care. I cannot state enough how many times I have seen uneven clear coat, paint dripping, dust contamination etc. These are what lead to long term unreliability of the paint finish.

[Kedrock]

Dear all

I am overwhelmed by the responses here. Thank you so much for the insights.

Yes, the Skoda incident inspired me to reach out to you all. I was wondering how the whole thing would have played out had the dealer been honest about the condition of the car. What compelled the dealer to misled the customer.

We have a culture of penalizing our manpower for the mishaps. Technician/ driver breaking something in the car, scratching a car will hide the damage to avoid being penalized monetarily. How many times do you guys wonder why am I getting a supplimentary estimate, why the cost of a repair is significantly more than the initial estimate? How did this scratch appear here?

This fear of losing incentive/ salary motivates the manpower to hide such damages, quietly fix the issue with some jugad, and if caught come up with stupid excuses like bird poop. Customer figures out sooner or later and the dealer's reputation goes for a toss.

I agree hiding stuff hoping customer won't notice is the worst course of action for a dealership.

On the original issue of a repainted car, I have my answer now. We deal with accident cars on a daily basis. Every day cars come with scratches and dents, gets fixed and delivered. No big deal. But not a new car, no.
What seems mundane to me is a very big deal for a customer who might be buying his/her first car. Lot of emotions, excitement etc. I have to assure the customer that I am on his/her side. Yes, even a single scratch is not acceptable and any such damage shouldn't be taken lightly.

I will ensure that the above learning goes to all of my team.

Originally Posted by IshaanIan

I am no expert myself but I think this might be the reason:


At 2-3 thousand rupees per panel, the value for labor is so low that you will have to pay some one else just to inspect each paint job since no one in India will aspire to paint cars considering each panel only costs 2-3 thousand rupees and considering they would not aspire to do it, when they do, it is often done with zero thought or care. I cannot state enough how many times I have seen uneven clear coat, paint dripping, dust contamination etc. These are what lead to long term unreliability of the paint finish.

My friend, 2-3 thousand INR is what costs a dealer to paint a panel with the manufacturer recommended paint along with all the bells and whistles. No cost cutting there. Workmanship and quality of job done will obviously differ from dealer to dealer.

[SLK]

Originally Posted by Kedrock

So, why repainting a panel (on a new car) is made into a big deal?

Original finish is original finish, you can always make it out. Repaint has a life much less than original and scratches easily.

So far as I go, I would not want to accept a car which is repainted.

I've kept my 8 year old car scratchless and re-paintless, so I have a right to demand new.

There are people who get their cars repainted at every possible scratch/ occasion, you will have to find them to sell the damaged/ repaired car to them at a not so high discount.

Let me ask you 2 questions now:

1) If I take delivery of a car and want to sell it back to the dealer the next day, will you buy it at full price? Not even close, so a repaired car enjoys the same status.

2) If you think its so normal in your business for cars to occasionally get damaged, why do manufacturers not realize this and give you replacement factory painted parts to avoid 'repair'? And if the manufacturers don't accept this as routine business, why do you expect consumers to accept this as just a normal thing!

[Beingtraveler]

Here are my two cents. Last year sold my swift vxi 2007 model to OLX autos. Before closing on the deal, technician came to check the car. He tested the engine, suspensions, interiors and also he brought along an equipment to test the density of paint to figure out if any of the panels have been re-painted. There were two panels, both painted from authorised service centre. He/his equipment figured that out and that lowered the price of my car. I could have fetched another few thousands if all parts and panels’ paint was original.

So why would anyone accept a car with a re-paint job without asking for a discount.

P.S. both the times when parts were painted, it was not my fault. First instance - A brick fell from someone’s terrace on the car’s bonnet. Second instance - My society’s security guard reversed the car and hit the fire safety equipment while I wasn’t at home. My car had to be removed as some society work had to be carried out, so my mom handed over the keys to the security guard.

Accidents happen, but someone will have to own it up. I lost my NCB twice and later while selling my car I was offered less price because of this. So, if accidents happen at dealership’s end, why would customer accept it without any compensation? Why would customer pay the price of decreased value if he/she plans to resell in few years without them being at fault?

[kiku007]

Originally Posted by Kedrock

Dear all

I am overwhelmed by the responses here. Thank you so much for the insights.

Thank you for sharing your perspective and trying to understand the customer perspectives. You are doing the right thing.

I would like to add the one thing that probably hasn’t been touched upon so far.

I’ve grown up watching brand new cars and bikes being abused before delivery. Most of it happens during unloading and the trips between the yard, dealership and the RTO.
The vehicles take a detour for a show-and-tell, show-off, joy rides to friends and family of the dealership drivers. I cringe when they rev the hell out of brand new vehicles and do wheelies on the bikes.

I agree that the above is an exception and not the norm. Also, I don’t know if the authorities require vehicles to be taken to the RTO office these days. It’s a redundant exercise.

With this background of lack of care, it’s difficult for customers to be more sympathetic towards dealers in case of damage.

I’ve seen how the sales representatives at jewellery shops handle jewellery. You can see that they care. Cars are so much more valuable, and for some they have an equal or more emotional value. So we just ask for, “Handle with care”.

Perhaps people also trust the workmanship of the jewellers to make alterations or adjustments to jewellery but unable to have the same level of trust on paint repairs at the dealership level. The quality processes and controls at the factory are arguably higher.

Then, why do people send their cars to dealers for paint repairs after delivery? Well, we can’t really send them to the factory can we? So that’s different.

My Made In Japan WRX had 6 kms on the odometer when it was delivered to me in Australia. I suppose India needs improvements in the infrastructure to transport cars.

[bhavik.1991]

Originally Posted by Kedrock

Also, almost all damages occur while the vehicle is shifted from stockyard to showroom or in the showroom itself. Damages aren't that common, 1 in 100 cars is the average.

I have attended two car delivery ceremonies in recent times and both of them were done at stockyard. Brezza by a Maruti dealer and Nexon by a Tata dealer. I absolutely hated the experience but after your insights, I think it might not be a bad idea at all.
Majority of customers who care enough about car to do a PDI, might be okay to get delivery from stockyard to eliminate possibility of damage. This can be discussed with the customer prior to delivery if one is okay with stockyard delivery.

[vedirah]

Originally Posted by Kedrock

We have a culture of penalizing our manpower for the mishaps. Technician/ driver breaking something in the car, scratching a car will hide the damage to avoid being penalized monetarily.

This fear of losing incentive/ salary motivates the manpower to hide such damages, quietly fix the issue with some jugad, and if caught come up with stupid excuses like bird poop. Customer figures out sooner or later and the dealer's reputation goes for a toss.

Kedrock, may I ask what's the rationale behind this toxic culture? In my management books, this is very wrong. If an employee makes a mistake it should be treated as the company's mistake and not an individual's mistake. Of course, it is useful to find the root cause of the mistake and eliminate that. But penalizing employees monetarily means embracing a culture of secrecy within the company. Hope your company realises this and makes necessary changes. Is this how most dealerships work?

Originally Posted by SLK

Original finish is original finish, you can always make it out. Repaint has a life much less than original and scratches easily.

SLK, why do you think a repainted panel has less life than an original? This is counter-intuitive. In fact the repainted panel usually has a higher DFT than factory painted panel. If the same paint and clear coat material is used, a repainted panel should technically have a higher life than factory painted panel because of the higher DFT. That is, as far as adhesion is as good as factory paint (read: paint given enough time to bake and cure). Am I wrong?

Besides, my experience with Volkswagen in Chennai has certainly been pleasant. I had to repaint the passenger side door panel due to a deep scratch. The paint quality is top notch. To the naked eye, it is impossible to spot the difference. There are no paint defects either (no dripping, no dust contamination, no orange peel). It has been five odd months since the repaint, and I am yet to see any prominent fine scratches or swirl marks on the surface - so I find it hard to understand when you say that repainted panel scratches easily. It all depends on whether the original paint and clear coat was used. I personally wouldn't worry about a repainted panel if it is done with good workmanship.

[GeeTee TSI]

May be slightly off topic

In a typical vehicle buying process (in India) I believe there are no terms and conditions specified before the deal (I refer to the purchase agreement mentioned in an earlier post)

Pay the booking amount (receipt issued)
Booking form (signature only, not even a copy of this goes to the customer)
Pay the full amount (post with sanctioned loan) and the original invoice is issued

That's it. There are no obligations on the condition of the vehicle or any other commitments (not even the PDI documentation for proof) or any recourse stated in black and white AFAIK. And we are talking about the single biggest (maybe second) purchase commitment of our lives!

[VKumar]

Originally Posted by Kedrock

I am overwhelmed by the responses here. Thank you so much for the insights.

I am the odd one out here I guess, if the another side is honest enough, I believe in keeping things chilled out; but then if they are dishonest - the reaction is equally bad too.

At the time of delivery of my car, VW Gurgaon sales guy directly called me up and said "sir the car has got a small scratch and we are sending it for repair, you come in evening"

Me: Ruk ja bhai (Wait bro), let me come and check!

Neither I wanted to wait, nor was the scratch big enough to be easily visible, I asked him to get the car polished by the 3M guy and make the scratch minimal (Which he did) and took the delivery of the car. Neither I had the time, not I had the will to get the spanking new car had its fender repainted.

Lesson IMO: Relationship matters, all that matters is how your sales guy has been with the customer since day 1, if your sales guy has been alert, honest and transparent since day 1 of meeting - the customers do make small adjustments. I think nobody will accept a repainted vehicle or panel and people see it as a way of churning out more discounts - here a good relationship and built-up trust may certainly work as a cushion while you sit on negotiating table.

Another example: While picking his Innova Crysta, my friend got a nice sales guy at Uttam Toyota (Ghaziabad), he literally left a slightly better deal with another dealer just to deal with this guy whom he had more confidence on. His point was also the same that for the discount worth 0.25% of the car value, I wouldn't choose an unknown guy over a proven one. Later the same sales guy managed to sell a few more cars in my circle. Out of which one Fortuner faced the issue of delayed delivery as some doc wasn't prepared on time - but the apologetic guy managed to get away with that too in a smooth manner.

Originally Posted by navin

Your customer should be given the option to decide.

Perfect one line answer, I too am putting an emphasis on the same. If I, as a customer know the situation and has taken my decision, I will stand by it. Secondly, the decision I will take discovering the honesty will be 1/10th as severe as one I will take on discovering that the facts have been hidden and the dealer has been dishonest. When someone becomes a repeat customer of any business 'honesty' is always among the top spoken words in the endorsement statement after all.

[SLK]

Originally Posted by vedirah

SLK, why do you think a repainted panel has less life than an original? This is counter-intuitive. In fact the repainted panel usually has a higher DFT than factory painted panel. If the same paint and clear coat material is used, a repainted panel should technically have a higher life than factory painted panel because of the higher DFT. That is, as far as adhesion is as good as factory paint (read: paint given enough time to bake and cure). Am I wrong?

I've had Maruti, Honda and Chevy repainted. Yes, for the first few months, the re-paint job looks like new paint. After sometime the paint finish becomes somewhat dull/ faded. Its easier to scratch it compared to original paint.

Another observation has been that, when cars are parked in sun, the UV ageing of the re-painted surface is much faster.

I have no experience with VW/ Skoda repainting (figures crossed), but my colleague's dark blue coloured Vento was repainted at multiple occasions at the VW workshop, and it was clearly visible after some time.

It maybe that its a norm by ASS to use poor quality material compared to factory, but then at least in my experience that is what has been happening.

Basically, I'm happy to take a brush and touch up on scratches than repainting any panel, unless its damaged.