[pgsagar]

Originally Posted by KeepReading

Hybrid is right way to go till renewable energy cross mid way of total power generation. Post that only, EVs will be good for environment.
Agree that EVs offer driving pleasure. But, I am concerned about emissions.
My guess is post Maruti launches swift twins next year first half, Hybrids will pick pace. I feel that is game changer for Maruti.

You need to worry about engine and other mechanicals in an ICE car. You need to worry only about battery pack in EV. You will have to worry about BOTH engine/other mechanicals AS WELL AS about battery pack.

IMO, choose between EV or ICE. Hybrid is neither here nor there. It doesn't seem to make any sense to me to go for hybrid just for 4/5 max KM mileage gain, by paying 3/4 lakhs over ICE. Also, most hybrids come with 3-pot engines which have their inherent rough running.

[shortbread]

Originally Posted by DRPSREDDY

I understand your point. The reason I called them as fake Hybrids is, many such so-called mild Hybrids came in different iterations. One such thing is Mahindra's stop-start system and Maruti's SVHS Microhybrid system. Thought they slightly increase the mileage doesn't mean it replaces or replicates Hybrids. Those are just low-cost mimicking. small savings don't demand such respect. That is why I preferred to call them 'Fake' Hybrid. Infact they should not be classified as Hybrids.

True, a differentiation of the 'fake' hybrids Vs the pre hybrid sales split will show how many people prefer to pay a premium for real hybrid tech. This makes good headlines, the reality is that maruti is mostly selling the base power trains albeit under the hybrid guise.

[shikh_oberoi]

Originally Posted by pgsagar

You need to worry about engine and other mechanicals in an ICE car. You need to worry only about battery pack in EV. You will have to worry about BOTH engine/other mechanicals AS WELL AS about battery pack.

.

I think "Worry" Is a wrong word to use. Both fuel type needs maintenance.
But yeah, you definitely need to worry about the dropping battery percentage in the EVs.
I just bought a Hybrid and soon going to buy an electric only for city runs.
So my take is Primary car should not be an EV here in India for the time being.

[SKC-auto]

Originally Posted by KeepReading

My first new thread on Team BHP forum!!!

Went through an interesting column on Electric/Hybrid cars on net emissions.

https://www.indiatoday.in/india/stor...340-2023-05-23

I was trying to find this study for 2 days, could not find the study, anyone please share the actual study. If the authors have nothing to hide, why cannot they share the research. I have requested for sending the copy of similar research paper on researchgate(not sure its the same).

The study has an obvious conflict of interest.

according to the report by IIT Kanpur's Engine Research Lab.

[NewUser123]

Originally Posted by SKC-auto

I was trying to find this study for 2 days, could not find the study, anyone please share the actual study. If the authors have nothing to hide, why cannot they share the research.

Here you go… https://www.iitk.ac.in/erl/Downloads...nd%20ICEVs.pdf

Also, an explainer article as an added bonus
https://finshots.in/archive/your-ev-...d-your-pocket/

[sprashanth1982]

Originally Posted by pgsagar

You need to worry about engine and other mechanicals in an ICE car. You need to worry only about battery pack in EV. You will have to worry about BOTH engine/other mechanicals AS WELL AS about battery pack.

IMO, choose between EV or ICE. Hybrid is neither here nor there. It doesn't seem to make any sense to me to go for hybrid just for 4/5 max KM mileage gain, by paying 3/4 lakhs over ICE. Also, most hybrids come with 3-pot engines which have their inherent rough running.

Even if you pay 3/4 lakhs more for a Strong Hybrid over an ICE car, the 4/5 kpl extra mileage means significant savings in Petrol usage per month. If you drive your car atleast 10,000 kms per year, then in a few years you can recover the extra cost & over an 8-10 year period of usage, you will get huge fuel savings with the Strong Hybrid.

Now, I agree that the savings will be even better with an Electric car (BEV), but still the Hybrid is a much better choice compared to conventional ICE.

Besides, I don't know why you would need to worry more about a Hybrid car's mechanicals & battery pack, when compared to an ICE or BEV car. Hybrid technology is a tested and proven one over many decades & Toyota and Honda have made really good and reliable Hybrid cars in the recent past that have also fetched good resale value after 8-10 yrs of usage.

[TorqueIndia]

Originally Posted by sprashanth1982

Even if you pay 3/4 lakhs more for a Strong Hybrid over an ICE car, the 4/5 kpl extra mileage means significant savings in Petrol usage per month. If you drive your car atleast 10,000 kms per year, then in a few years you can recover the extra cost & over an 8-10 year period of usage, you will get huge fuel savings with the Strong Hybrid.

There is a problem with the calculations. Consider the non hybrid gives 10kmpl and hybrid gives 16kmpl as in Hycross, then for 10,000 km the non hybrid owner will shell out 1L v/s hybrid owners 60K rupees. So the savings just on the fuel is only 40K per year. The premium paid is 400K and it will take 100K km or 10years to recover it, which is not worth IMHO. Also the maintenance, insurance will be on the higher side too with poor resale value and dead battery as seen in used Camry hybrids in GCCs.

In my opinion if there is a hybrid car at your price point, then buy it like you are looking for 30-35L car and you find Hycross in the list. But it's not worth to stretch your budget to buy a hybrid car or hybrid variants by shelling out 5-10L extra even if the fuel saving is 40-50%.

[nettooran]

I see a ton of new Urban Cruiser Hybrids here on Kerala roads. Grand Vitaras too, but less than the Toyota sibling.

But I see very less Innova Hycross on the roads. Is it because I am not spotting them? or is the Hycross sales not a much as expected? I hear the booking period is huge for Hycross, but why am I not seeing them on roads?

What am I missing here?

[Carma2017]

This entire thread has been very interesting to read with majority discussion focussed on the economics rather than pollution/ emissions. So, we as a junta, even the automotively educated ones like TBHPians, are worried chiefly about running costs and value and not the nature. In my opinion, the focus on economics is something all makers have to consider as the European approach won't work in India where it is cool to be environmentally conscious.

[NewUser123]

Originally Posted by Carma2017

…are worried chiefly about running costs and value and not the nature. In my opinion, the focus on economics is something all makers have to consider as the European approach won't work in India where it is cool to be environmentally conscious.

From the article I posted 2-3 posts earlier…
“The EV emits 187 grams of carbon dioxide per kilometre of use (gCO eq./km). The hybrid is at 167 gCO eq./km. The regular petrol car emits 244 gCO eq./km.”

Not everything is as it seems, it seems…

[TorqueIndia]

Originally Posted by NewUser123

Here you go… https://www.iitk.ac.in/erl/Downloads...nd%20ICEVs.pdf

Also, an explainer article as an added bonus
https://finshots.in/archive/your-ev-...d-your-pocket/

There are some errors in the report like they considered ARAI rating for all cars but not Kona, Kona EVs range rated by ARAI is 452km, but they considered only 305km in many tables, eg: Table 1.

Also in TCO calculations Table 16, they considered Grand Vitara non- hybrid prices and Hybrid mileage figures. Set GV base prices as 10.45L and mileage as 27.97kmpl, where as actual base price is 17.99L. Overall the reports looks unreliable.

[SKC-auto]

Originally Posted by TorqueIndia

There are some errors in the report like they considered ARAI rating for all cars but not Kona, Kona EVs range rated by ARAI is 452km, but they considered only 305km in many tables, eg: Table 1.

Also I suspect they used GHG emissions of oil refining as per data from US, from what I gathered the power generation emissions of US is 2.5x less than India. So refining oil has less emissions than charging an EV from India's electricity mix.

The manufacturing emissions between EVs and Hybrids is not huge, and there is no way EVs are dirty to run than hybrids unless you use GHG emissions of refining oil from US and electricity used to charge EVs from India.

Assumption: Processes for crude oil refining in India are the same as that of the USA. Imported crude oil comes from the Middle East and the UAE.

Another small mistake, which the authors are not aware is that lead acid batteries are also used in EVs.

[pgsagar]

Originally Posted by shikh_oberoi

I think "Worry" Is a wrong word to use. Both fuel type needs maintenance.
But yeah, you definitely need to worry about the dropping battery percentage in the EVs.
I just bought a Hybrid and soon going to buy an electric only for city runs.
So my take is Primary car should not be an EV here in India for the time being.

If worry is not the right word then it is maintain. What you have, you have to maintain. If your car has no power steering, you don't have to "worry" about p.s. system. You don't maintain an engine in EV. You don't maintain a battery pack in ICE. You MAINTAIN BOTH in Hybrid. You can argue all day long but that is the fact.

[shikh_oberoi]

Originally Posted by pgsagar

"You need to worry only about battery pack in EV"....
You can argue all day long but that is the fact.

1. Rotating the tires,
2. Cabin air filters.
3. Battery coolant and filters.
4. Brake pads and rotors
5. Tire wear.
6. Suspension.
7. Costly Wires( imagine a rat chewing on it)


The fact is EV requires lesser maintenance than ICE cars because of less moving parts but yes you need to worry about other parts too.

You need to worry about battery degradation. Open Nexon EV thread and you will see a lot of posts about how to charge the EV, how to maintain good health and calibration.

Also, check out the service estimate of my friend's MG ZS EV. Even after removing all the unnecessary items, he still paid around 9k. So I guess an EV is not necessarily cheaper to maintain than an ICE car.