[ferrarirules]

Originally Posted by satyamkolhe

But they have higher inventory than Tata and Hyundai, which do not have such long waiting periods for any vehicle. This is confusing me. Maybe I am missing something, but to me, this does not make sense.

Originally Posted by JunkyardHunter

If Mahindra has that much left over stock, how come waiting periods are so high? Are dealers artificially inflating the waiting period?

If you see the trend, their inventory was lowest in comparison to Hyundai, Tata till October. They had a much lower festive sales as compared to Tata and Hyundai leaving them with higher inventory than Tata and Hyundai. For the waiting period I feel the following points are applicable
1. It is defined by variant and colour options that a person is looking for. As the production of cars happens in batches so it has impact on waiting.
2. It is also dependent on the child parts your part supplier can provide per month
3. The inventory can be for car and variants which are not driving high sales but production runs have happened for them
Example - Toyota Innova Hycross - ZX and ZX(O) are on year long waiting since the launch and Toyota has not been able to reduce it.

Originally Posted by GauRanVid

I believe festive discounts will continue further to clear out any remaining inventory before new regulations of mandatory 6 airbags kick-in in 2025.

There is no mandatory 6 airbag rule upcoming. Govt already retracted the same in 2023. Link

[Col Mehta]

Originally Posted by arjab

Creta: Selling more than double of its cousin, the Seltos. Cousin is jealous. Very.

Made me laugh .

Not just the cousin, but the owners too - I'm being one of Seltos owners. But some just won't accept it and rather make silly and lame excuses.

The dominance of the Creta is unprecedented. And there is no shame in admitting it.

[DRPSREDDY]

Originally Posted by satyamkolhe

Tata is selling more vehicles than Mahindra but dispatching less vehicles. Sales are just a little below what Hyundai is doing but on basis of dispatch, Tata is down to 4th spot now.

That is true that Tata Motors has cleared off it's inventory by less number of dispatches and are now with just 30 days of inventory. That relieves stress on showrooms and can plan upgrades leading fresh inventory.

Originally Posted by balpreetsingh

Where is TATA going wrong? I am puzzled. I do like their design language across models. Be is Safari, Harrier, Nexon etc. However, the price wise Safari is higher than XUV700

Originally Posted by ArTigor

Tata might further see a dip in their numbers, at present the Tata lineup design reminds me of a similar family look strategy they had during the Indica-Indigo era, when every car had similar looking facia, i.e. Indica-Vista-Manza-Aria.
Punch-Nexon-Curvv are too similar to look at from dead front. The pre facelift Nexon had a butchness which seems to have been lost in the current facelift.

Originally Posted by 07CR

Windsor EV is a good example, as it has now beaten Nexon.Ev in terms of absolute sales. It will get even more tricky for Tata once Hyundai/Kia/Mahindra bring in their born EVs.

Another cause for concern is their over reliance on Fiat for the multijet 2.0. This is now a very old power train with NVH being a level down compared to the superb 2.2 MHawk. Heck, the same 2.0 multijet has better NVH in Hector/Compass/Meridian. With Fiat now moving away from diesels (with diesel's death in Europe), they don't have any incentive for investing in this 2.0 multijet or develope a new diesel engine. If Tata want them to work on NVH/ power-torque tweaks, Fiat will charge heavy royalties to Tata, which will make the already overpriced Harrier/safari further distance themselves from competition.

The main issue is with Engine. Tata Motors has just one petrol and one diesel engine in its line-up. The 1.2L 3 cyl petrol and 1.5L diesel engine. With that engine they can only launch small lower mid sized cars. They still have a 1.5L and 2.0L petrol power trains missing in its arsenal. For that reason and a low cost platform they are unable to launch any sedans, mid sized, 3 row and large size SUVs. Also they are missing a versatile 1.8-2.0L diesel engine for large size SUVs. The Fiat derived engine limits it's application and I feel Tata Motors either should scrap or buy out the engine and make its own upgrades. MG has taken the same engine and added an electrical Turbocharger that gives an output of 200 bhp. Why can't Tata do the same?

With EVs not selling in high numbers, Tata Motors is not able to unleash Born EV or Gen 3 skateboard platforms as they need to make 8-10k cars a months per model for viability and Tata Motors doesn't have an export market yet! That has helped MG as Windsor is sold in many markets under different brand names

Originally Posted by FireBlade

Looking at the October 2024 sales figure, I think both Nexon iCNG and Curvv are going to propel Tata to finally dethrone Hyundai from the number 2 spot.

Both Nexon iCNG and Curvv are having long waiting period of upto 14 months as per some latest reports. Curvv is literally the spiritual successor to the mighty Nexon and looks like it'll continue the family tradition of sales success set by its sub-compact brother

Hope the CNG numbers pull up sales.

[Rumblestrip]

Honda's sales figures are worrying. Once an aspirational brand, now in disarray. I guess they're to blame themselves. Other OEMs would kill for to get such a loyal fanbase and brand equity what they have. Their complaceny and arrogance let do the downfall. Still they have chance to regain lost ground if they act prudently.

On a lighter note, whatever hopes they pinned on Amaze facelift is sabotaged by Maruti launching their faclifted version of Amaze (read Dzire)

[FiatDiesel]

Problem with Tata is that they don’t have anything good apart from design, strong metal fabrication leading to good safety.
Rest all the things in terms of tech and engineering are either old, mediocre, low quality or imported which has handicapped them to offer something niche and unique to beat competitors.
R&D is dead and so as design as it is also now repeating in newer models rather something really fresh & new.
It’s not the brand problem but employees in comfort zones considering it as government job as last time when someone (Cyrus) tried to do reorg was chucked out from top post though the same employees should appreciate the seedlings of new designs he sowed due to which the brand got revived.
It’s long road for TaMo else easy way out looks to get sold to some Chinese entity which was very much the plan until geopolitical issues cropped up.
I will put my money on Mahindra any day if have to choose between the two.

[FireBlade]

Originally Posted by FiatDiesel

Problem with Tata is that they don’t have anything good apart from design, strong metal fabrication leading to good safety.
Rest all the things in terms of tech and engineering are either old, mediocre, low quality .

Where did you get this idea that Tata tech is outdated? This is taking Tata bashing to a whole new level, IMO. I am using Tata cars since 2007 when my father bought Indica Xeta. I myself bought Nexon Petrol 3 years back. Indica hasn't had a single breakdown till date. Tata cars are extremely good looking and also very comfortable. I have done 700kms+ long drives in my Nexon consistently and the comfort this CSUV provides has to be experienced first hand. There was no fatigue at all despite these long drives. Plus, my Nexon has all the features and creature-comforts that I could wish in a modern car.

TLDR: 40K+ customers who buy Tata cars month after month are not fools. We know what we want and TML does provide us with that. However, is the after sales experience stellar? Nope. Far from it. But is it crap? Not either. The truth, as ususal, always lies somewhere in-between.

[SAE40 in veins]

Tata Praising or Tata Bashing can be decided later but let us put certain facts straight.

1. Product Strategy - While Tatas had a head-start in the diesel hatch segment, way back in 1998, they chugged along for a decade without building a proper portfolio of passenger cars and relied just on one Indica and Indigo. So a hell lot of learning which could have come was wasted just because they followed the 'Truck and Bus' style of business which did not suit passenger cars.
Worst is that, this thinking continues within the company. The replacement of Tiago and Tigor is nowhere to be seen, leave along a refresh or a facelift which that car badly deserves.

2. Power train strategy - While Tatas started the Passenger car journey in 1998 in a proper way (not discounting the efforts of 1993 with the Estate, Sierra and Sumo), the gasoline engines fitted on the Indica were a generation behind with a 2 valve head and cast iron block. This was done to commonize parts with the Diesel engine and save costs. Even back then, Gasoline was the mainstay fuel of the hatches and Tata completely failed in developing a proper 4 cylinder, 4 valve aluminium gasoline engine for the next two and half decades. While 3 cylinders were quite Ok for smaller hatches, even the cost conscious Maruti had proper and silent 4 cylinder engines from the Wagon R onwards.
Ok so past is past and life gives a second chance. Well! the second chance was the launch of the Bolt and the Zest. Look what Tatas did, they plonked a turbocharger to that outdated 1.2 liter 2 valve cast iron engine and named it the Revotron. Despite all the advertising, how well that engine performed is something everyone knows. So missing an opportunity even when you try to rise back like a phoenix ???? What the hell were people smoking in powertrain planning and the engine design department is something i wonder ?
As i write this, they still do not have a decent 4 cylinder petrol engine in the portfolio. Talk about powertrain planning...
Ok so what about the 2.2 L block ? - the 2179cc block which started the common Rail journey in India for Tatas and Mahindras. Well TML was the first to adopt the same and Mahindra followed suit. To this date, tatas do not have a decent transverse engine and transaxle combo of this engine while Mahindra developed it at least a decade back and launched the first monocoque SUV, the XUV 500. Well! Tata could have learned from that and developed the East-West configuration of the 2.2 Dicor, which could have come in handy for the Harrier - Safari twins. No, that would be a very sensible decision and Tatas wouldn't take sensible decisions when it comes to Passenger car powertrains. The powertrain planners and designers deserve at least a 'Bharat ratna' in this case.
So the Harrier and Safari twins are with a bought out engine-gearbox combo from Fiat, forcing TML to price it higher than the XUV 700 which has become the 'Gold-Standard' for the segment
Even today, the Altroz, an otherwise capable vehicle is let down by an anaemic 3 pot engine and the company feels, it is just fine that way.
OK so Ford has exited India and the Sanand plant is taken over by TML, why don't you just licence out the 1 liter Ecoboost from them Mr TML ? looks like conventional wisdom fails to address things here

3. Product Planning and Styling Duds - now Tata has done better than many others in this area but still certain things need a mention.
After about a decade of the Indica, comes the Vista. Now from a distance how would one distinguish this vehicle from the old Indica is one point. More importantly, when parked next to each other, the old Indica definitely looked better. Mind you, this was after the Swift had set a benchmark in hatchback styling within the country around 2005
We all have seen the Aria and how it was conceived. A body on frame vehicle with a very plain and bland MUV type styling. Now which was the segment it was intended at ? OK leave alone powertrain planning, where on earth was product planning.
Let's talk rebirth; that vehicle was reborn as the Hexa. Definitely a decent effort but again with a confused styling which was somewhere between an SUV and MUV. When the whole world was moving towards SUVs and when diesel was still a mainstay fuel, TML could have simply launched a good SUV with that very capable chassis and Driveline combo. No, they didn't

Being a first mover everywhere has brought the company thus far. Now looking at competition, Mahindras had always played a follower game but ended up beating the Tatas everywhere, primarily riding on the strength of its diverse and capable powertrains. Now with a focus on styling, they look like they are poised to grow further. Tatas will still survive but maybe in the fourth of fifth position if the trend continues.

[Silent Buddha]

Originally Posted by greenhorn

Tata has supposedly been improving it's service quality for 20 years. None of this is new to them. They just don't care. They have made their money. They are, at the strategic level, focused on creating the next big thing to address the 2027-30 cohort and operationally, squeeze the most of its existing products and owners

This is one of the primary reasons why I stayed away from Tata Safari in my search. I never even bothered about that vehicle. Really hope the brand does course correction because if not the market will eventually wake up & eat them up. Constant negative word of mouth can be dangerous for the brand which doesn't have good reputation to begin with.

[FiatDiesel]

Originally Posted by FireBlade

I am using Tata cars since 2007 when my father bought Indica Xeta. I myself bought Nexon Petrol 3 years back. Indica hasn't had a single breakdown till date. Tata cars are extremely good looking and also very comfortable. I have done 700kms+ long drives in my Nexon consistently and the comfort this CSUV provides has to be experienced first hand. There was no fatigue at all despite these long drives. Plus, my Nexon has all the features and creature-comforts that I could wish in a modern car.

Congratulations to you for being happy customer and I wish you many more happy miles. My feedback is not transactional or targeting the owners of TaMo vehicles, infact it’s the larger perspective like the topics SAE40 explained in next post from yours which I am also fortunate to have due to the city I live in and my friend circle.

Within the TaMo ecosystem, you own one of the most sorted products Nexon which has least niggles, it should serve you well.

[balpreetsingh]

Originally Posted by ferrarirules

If you see the trend, their inventory was lowest in comparison to Hyundai, Tata till October. They had a much lower festive sales as compared to Tata and Hyundai leaving them with higher inventory than Tata and Hyundai. For the waiting period I feel the following points are applicable
1. It is defined by variant and colour options that a person is looking for. As the production of cars happens in batches so it has impact on waiting.
2. It is also dependent on the child parts your part supplier can provide per month
Link[/url]

You mean to say Mahindra has higher inventory that Tata & Hyundai at end of October?

Well for Sep and Oct the sales of Mahindra were far higher than August and some month of month growth from Sept to October as well. And from what I understand from Dealer by Early October the waiting time for few XUV700 model ( towards top end) they had to revert to higher waiting period.

Regards,

Balpreet Singh

[thoroughbred]

Originally Posted by coldice4u

Mahindra sold 10000 XUV 700s!
Unthinkable and how remarkable that a car with an average price of 20-22 lakhs is clocking such numbers!

It's simple, keep pushing the delivery of the vehicles by weeks or months, and then deliver them all in multiple, big batches!

Jokes aside, it does look like there are prioritization of vehicles manufactured. I recall Scorpio, Scorpio-N and Bolero showing good numbers in past month. We will see huge jump in numbers once Roxx enters the chart.

[GauRanVid]

Today I went to Honda showroom in Vaishali, Ghaziabad to check out Honda Elevate. Below is what I gathered:

1. As per SA, SV variant is not coming now and only V, VX and ZX are coming. However website shows SV as well
2. They had all three variants in showroom in white (V), red (VX), blue (ZX).
3. Almost empty showroom with very minimal customers
4. SA explained each variant and their respective differences
5. Went for test drive which was ZX CVT.
6. Drive was smooth and car handling was on point. Somewhat similar to my Duster
7. 2nd row middle seat was ok but not for long drives. Strictly 2 seater due to prominent hump in leatherette. V and VX humps seemed less due to fabric.
8. Horn was very meek. SA defended it by saying they are preventing noise pollution ��
9. Tight turning radius of 5.2 m
10. Window lines feel high from inside and does not give a great feeling. Dull and black interiors make it bad further
11. CVT though was great but a slight tap on accelerator made revs go high like mad with lot of noise. Drove it very sedately in traffic at 1500rpm but slight tap on accelerator became so noisy in cabin even around 2000-2500rpm that I had to back off
12. Insulation is poor as lot of engine noise creeps in preventing you from accelerating. Honda has done nothing despite so many complaints about poor noise insulation
13. With 15-20 lakhs in hand, a buyer like me is checking XUV700, Creta, Alcazar, GV, Elevate, etc. There is no USP I could find in Elevate which pulls me and makes it a very strong contender.
14. All variants and all colours are available (for CVT) and delivery will be done in 1 week
15. VX CVT on road cost is Rs17,61,000 and the sales lead offered me 1 lakh flat discount to bring it to Rs 16,61,000 if I book in Nov and take delivery within Nov. Mind it, I didn’t negotiate anything and it came upfront. Pretty sure there is room to bring price further down
16. Inventory is piling as sales lead said that car can be from April as well.


This shows a very gloomy state of Honda in India. Dealers are desperate to make a sale and get whatever they can to minimise losses. Such a half hearted effort with no USP to compete in a cut throat competition will not help Honda.

[FireBlade]

Originally Posted by FiatDiesel

Congratulations to you for being happy customer and I wish you many more happy miles. My feedback is not transactional or targeting the owners of TaMo vehicles, infact it’s the larger perspective like the topics SAE40 explained in next post from yours which I am also fortunate to have due to the city I live in and my friend circle.Within the TaMo ecosystem, you own one of the most sorted products Nexon which has least niggles, it should serve you well.

Constructive criticism is always welcome. TML vehicles are far from perfect nor is their service. Everyone knows this. Yet they have been selling 40k+ cars since past many years. If so many people continue to buy TML cars, then they must be doing something right.Anyways, I respect your opinion, only disagreement was regarding tech part

[carhead]

A question- How and why does Mahindra persist with Marazzo? Current tally in 2024 has not even crossed 100.

Does it even make sense to sell this? A pretty decent mechanical package which did not succeed.

[rahulba]

Originally Posted by aniketi

Great month for Auto Industry.

I am little sceptical of the great numbers in October YoY as festivals like Dhanteras and Diwali were earlier this year as compared to 2023. Till last month we saw huge inventory pile up at dealerships and big discounts so this turnaround looks too good to be true. We will have better picture next month when comparison will be done for festive month of 2023 vs non festive month of 2024.