[StarScream]

Originally Posted by drmohitg

No what I am saying is that once the crude starts climbing up again, the government is not going to redcue the taxes that time right. And the so called buffoons will again ask for increase in prices for there services. So it will be a double blow to us.

Perhaps I've misunderstood something but why do you say they won't cut taxes if oil prices rise? The last government did it when oil was surging. This is really just a restoration.

[torquecurve]

The govt will protect its turf. From a political perspective, they increase taxes when price drops so you still pay e.g.72 per litre of fuel.
When crude increases, they can reduce the taxes (with the customer being none the wiser) and still price it at about 73 (e.g.) per litre, which means for the mango man, that there is almost no change!

[pgsagar]

Price deregulation is a big sham. Govt, and oil companies are fleecing us royally. All those people here worrying here about Govt. coffers would do well to know that even if you put all the money of the world in the kitty of GOI, next year they will tell you,,"khajana khali hai." The Govt. coffers are a bottomless pit. All the money of the universe cannot fill it. Evere since independence, not one year Govt. said, "this tear tax collection is robust and we have surplus budget. So, no new taxes this year or no rise in existing ones." Did any one ever hear this?

[joslicx]

Originally Posted by saurabhkum

I have no issues if Govt decided to increase the tax to fill their kitty instead of passing the benefit to the consumers, but at the same time I've 3 points to be made.
1. Does this means that fuel prices are not de-regulated ? Or they are only de-regulated when crude price increases?
2. Will the Govt cut taxes later on if the Crude prices increases?
3. From 114$ level to 78$ is a fall of 30% in prices even if I offset the Rupee vs Dollar deviation of 5% still prices should have been down by 25% which means petrol in Mumbai should be at 60 per liter, why are they silent on this.

Deregulation only means the subsidy on the product is gone. It does not mean Govt cannot reduce/increase duty/taxes on it. Worldwide taxes are the means of checking consumption. Nothing wrong with it.

If you go thru this article by Jagannathan:

http://firstbiz.firstpost.com/econom...ad-106691.html

In the years 2005-2013, fuel under-recoveries (or in other words subsidies) were a massive 8.33 Lakh Crores! To put into perspective, the entire Railways could have been modernized with this kind of money. Out of this 8L Crores Diesel subsidies were almost half of it or about 4 Lakh Crores compared petrol which was only about 22000 crores.

With Diesel price deregulation, this anomaly should not be seen anymore.

[civic-sense]

Originally Posted by joslicx

Deregulation only means the subsidy on the product is gone. It does not mean Govt cannot reduce/increase duty/taxes on it. Worldwide taxes are the means of checking consumption. Nothing wrong with it.

Not true. Govt increased the tax and simultaneously got the OMCs to drop the price. That means govt still controls pricing. If deregulation was in place, govt could decide the tax but not the price.

So this deregulation business has turned out to be a big sham.

[poloman]

Looks like people will never stop complaining. Petrol prices in Bangalore had touched 82Rs and now it is 69Rs. People were complaining when it was high and now people are complaining the rate decrease is not good enough. Some one very rightly pointed out adjusted to inflation and dollar rate this is as low as 50Rs.

I really don't know what the public is expecting. Controlled deregulation will only work in India where demand for fuels outstrip supply by such wide margins. True deregulation will mean Govt getting out of fuel business by privatizing all 3 major PSU oil companies. Are any one of us ready for such a situation where private companies decide everything like in US? What is stopping Shell or similar private companies from offering fuel at cheaper rates if things are so simple and straightforward? Are we ok with cooking gas prices reaching Rs1000 if deregulated? So why can't we stop ranting for a bit and enjoy the relative low prices before it start climbing up again.

[joslicx]

Originally Posted by civic-sense

Not true. Govt increased the tax and simultaneously got the OMCs to drop the price. That means govt still controls pricing. If deregulation was in place, govt could decide the tax but not the price.

So this deregulation business has turned out to be a big sham.

Again, the non-existing price rise DOES NOT mean it is subsidy. It goes in account of OMCs, not govts. Yes its unfair on them (as so many things are with these PSUs) but thats life under socialism. Govt owns them and can do with them as it wishes (as is done with other utilities like AI or Railways or Hotels etc)

So Diesel is still deregulated for now that you really cannot question. The real test/questions will arise with regards to Govt's deregulation resolve if oil gets back to 120 levels (which seems less probable as of now but anything can happen if US leaves middle east).

[StarScream]

Originally Posted by poloman

Looks like people will never stop complaining. Petrol prices in Bangalore had touched 82Rs and now it is 69Rs. People were complaining when it was high and now people are complaining the rate decrease is not good enough. Some one very rightly pointed out adjusted to inflation and dollar rate this is as low as 50Rs.

I really don't know what the public is expecting. Controlled deregulation will only work in India where demand for fuels outstrip supply by such wide margins. True deregulation will mean Govt getting out of fuel business by privatizing all 3 major PSU oil companies. Are any one of us ready for such a situation where private companies decide everything like in US? What is stopping Shell or similar private companies from offering fuel at cheaper rates if things are so simple and straightforward? Are we ok with cooking gas prices reaching Rs1000 if deregulated? So why can't we stop ranting for a bit and enjoy the relative low prices before it start climbing up again.

I totally agree. It puzzles me why fuel pricing is such a touchy issue. You don't see people getting this animated over the pricing of other commodities.

[carZest]

Originally Posted by StarScream

I totally agree. It puzzles me why fuel pricing is such a touchy issue. You don't see people getting this animated over the pricing of other commodities.

We are an auto forum, no? Fuel is at the core, toor dal is not!

[civic-sense]

Originally Posted by joslicx

Again, the non-existing price rise DOES NOT mean it is subsidy. It goes in account of OMCs, not govts. Yes its unfair on them (as so many things are with these PSUs) but thats life under socialism. Govt owns them and can do with them as it wishes (as is done with other utilities like AI or Railways or Hotels etc)

So Diesel is still deregulated for now that you really cannot question. The real test/questions will arise with regards to Govt's deregulation resolve if oil gets back to 120 levels (which seems less probable as of now but anything can happen if US leaves middle east).

For the last few decades we had been leaving socialism behind and increasingly embracing a free market economy. OMCs, although are PSUs are more answerable to the investors than the govt. So it is imperative that govt stop fixing fuel prices and allow the companies to function independently. Else we are going back to the dark days.

[joslicx]

Originally Posted by StarScream

I totally agree. It puzzles me why fuel pricing is such a touchy issue. You don't see people getting this animated over the pricing of other commodities.

This is the fuel price thread hence the discussion about fuel prices only

I guess a healthy discussion/debate should always be welcome. There are so many learning points. Theres both good points and bad points about increase/decrease of prices so theres a genuine merit in this discussion.

Originally Posted by civic-sense

OMCs, although are PSUs are more answerable to the investors than the govt. So it is imperative that govt stop fixing fuel prices and allow the companies to function independently. Else we are going back to the dark days.

In theory YES. Try telling it to the politicians!! If they dont get to manipulate even what they (they mean govt) own, what is then their raison d'être to be in politics!

[StarScream]

Originally Posted by carZest

We are an auto forum, no? Fuel is at the core, toor dal is not!

That cracked me up .

But going by the auto forum theme, I still don't see people getting so agitated about car prices for example. They attract some discussion but not this kind of conspiracy mongering and anger.

Originally Posted by joslicx

This is the fuel price thread hence the discussion about fuel prices only

I guess a healthy discussion/debate should always be welcome. There are so many learning points. Theres both good points and bad points about increase/decrease of prices so theres a genuine merit in this discussion.

I'm not questioning the validity of the thread or the discussion but more the nature of the discussion, which is more ranting and venting and less to do with facts, in my opinion. Not to mention, if anybody states an unpopular/unpalatable fact, he/she is accused of being part of the evil empire!

[PMK-MoJo]

Here is a video which says how the oil prices have gone up over the last 4 decades and the reason behind that.

https://in.screen.yahoo.com/all-time...112241456.html

[adimicra]

I guess people will always complain with anything related to the govt. I am going to be optimistic and believe that the subsidy is over and for good and the OMC's are being allowed to operate in a transparent manner.
As someone already said, if there is indeed a nexus between Govt and the OMCs in looting the public, why don't the private players like Essar/Shell/Reliance step in and offer better quality at lower prices? What's stopping them? AFAIK, the Shell and Essar prices are still marginally higher than OMCs.

[saurabhkum]

Have the OMC's started selling their premium fuel at discounted rate? Yesterday My Brother took his car at Indian Oil outlet at Breach Candy, their the attendant told him that he can fill Xtra Premium petrol at the same rate as normal petrol. He filled some 38 Ltrs of Petrol and he was charged the same price as normal petrol. After filling they took his sign on one register where they where maintaining some sort of log. Has anyone else heard this kind of stuff. I tried searching on net about any such offer but couldn't find it. The justification given by the pump was that they are making profit on sale ( due to recent cut in Crude rates) hence they are able to get this done.