Old car sold, new owner refusing to transfer ownership

[Pontiac]

I am in a slightly more awkward situation with 2 of my vehicles.

Alto – sold 10 years back
Hero honda CBZ – sold around 9 years back.

I had got the sale letters then but lost it since it has been few year since then. Yesterday, 2 policemen came to our home and enquired about the motorcycle. Somebody was riding the motorcycle in triples and they refused to stop when asked to do so by the policemen. So they noted the registration number and came to me. I told them about the sale 10 years back. They asked me to track down the new owners and force them to register it on their name. The problem I have now is I do not remember to whom I sold the vehicles nor I can find out the documents I collected back then.

I called the RTO and he suggested giving a written statement to the police that I have sold the vehicles already. I really wish there was a way to de register a vehicle from our names.

[shijanto4]

Originally Posted by Pontiac

I am in a slightly more awkward situation with 2 of my vehicles.

In the case of Alto, you would have got a clearance certificate (CC) issued by your RTO right? That should help. Now, you can take a B extract, which would show the date and time of the CC issued. However, in the case of two-wheeler, you will have to go for a police complaint mentioning that you sold the vehicle and that you lost the sale papers also!

[shijanto4]

Hi friends,

In short, I had sold my Tata Indigo LX on February 27, 2017. The guy who bought from me went and sold it to another guy immediately. Thereafter, on March 23, 2017, I got a CC issued from my RTO directly in the name of that second buyer. My task was complete, and since then, I kept calling up these guys urging them to finish the transfer process ASAP, but they haven't done it till date.

Now, today, morning I got a call from a guy (whom I don't know personally) saying that he is the friend of that second buyer, in whose name I had issued the CC to, and that they were on a holiday in Goa and that Goa police have caught the vehicle. He requested me to tell the cops that they were my friend and that I had given the car to them for traveling to Goa. However, when he gave the call to cop, I told the truth to cop that I had sold the vehicle in February and that they have not transferred it yet. He asked me if I have any proof of selling, and I mentioned having copies of clearance certificate, delivery note, and sale receipt. Immediately, he started yelling at them there and told me on phone that he is going to send the vehicle to court.

Now, I am confused did I do the right thing by saying truth to the cop that the vehicle was sold. My idea was at least now they will go and finish the transfer process. My query is would I still be liable in anyway here? Since the vehicle may go to court, will I be still involved in the court proceedings or will the CC issued from my RTO help me stay out of this mess? I believe the buyer will be in a fix now for not completing the transfer process and will have to run around to get the car released right? Please share your thoughts if anybody had faced a similar situation before.

[Motard_Blr]

Originally Posted by shijanto4

...

Now, I am confused did I do the right thing by saying truth to the cop that the vehicle was sold. My idea was at least now they will go and finish the transfer process. My query is would I still be liable in anyway here? Since the vehicle may go to court, will I be still involved in the court proceedings or will the CC issued from my RTO help me stay out of this mess? I believe the buyer will be in a fix now for not completing the transfer process and will have to run around to get the car released right? Please share your thoughts if anybody had faced a similar situation before.

Refer this article: http://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/...cle3939442.ece

The responsibility of notifying the RTO and applying for transfer of ownership is clearly the existing owner's. It's not clear if one can legally force the buyer to transfer the ownership to his name. If the situation isn't resolved soon, you should consult a competent advocate specialising in motor vehicle act cases.

[shijanto4]

Originally Posted by Motard_Blr

Refer this article: http://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/...cle3939442.ece

The responsibility of notifying the RTO and applying for transfer of ownership is clearly the existing owner's. It's not clear if one can legally force the buyer to transfer the ownership to his name. If the situation isn't resolved soon, you should consult a competent advocate specialising in motor vehicle act cases.

Thanks for the input. In my case, I had been to my RTO with Form 29 and 30 immediately after the sale, but they refused to accept the transfer papers from me, saying these should be applied by the buyer in his RTO. They just asked me to apply for a CC from my end and give it to the buyer along with the duly filled in form 29 and 30. Even after repeated queries, they made it clear that only CC will be issued from here and no transfer process will be initiated. I confirmed this with some agents there, and they also confirmed. Now, I hope this process will not be different across RTOs.

[Pontiac]

Originally Posted by shijanto4

In the case of Alto, you would have got a clearance certificate (CC) issued by your RTO right? That should help. Now, you can take a B extract, which would show the date and time of the CC issued. However, in the case of two-wheeler, you will have to go for a police complaint mentioning that you sold the vehicle and that you lost the sale papers also!

By CC, did you mean the NOC?

I talked to the police on the motorcycle issue. Although the inspector said it is the seller’s responsibility to get it transferred to the new owner, they assured me they will help find the motorcycle and get it transferred to the new owner as they had spotted the motorcycle in the same town. He also said the sale letter is valid for only 30days within which the vehicle needs to be transferred to the new owner. We are tracking the motorcycle along with the police as we speak.

For Alto, he suggested me to file a complaint with the police at the city where the car was sold to saying the owner is not transferring the car to their name.

[shijanto4]

Originally Posted by Pontiac

By CC, did you mean the NOC?

I talked to the police on the motorcycle issue. Although the inspector said it is the seller’s responsibility to get it transferred to the new owner, they assured me they will help find the motorcycle and get it transferred to the new owner as they had spotted the motorcycle in the same town. He also said the sale letter is valid for only 30days within which the vehicle needs to be transferred to the new owner. We are tracking the motorcycle along with the police as we speak.

For Alto, he suggested me to file a complaint with the police at the city where the car was sold to saying the owner is not transferring the car to their name.

Yes, CC is NOC (as called in some places). Yes, as for Alto, I guess a police complaint only can keep you safe now since you have lost all the papers too. Interestingly, I was told in my RTO that the only legal proof a seller can have on selling a four-wheeler is CC/NOC along with copies of Forms 29 and 30. What is surprising is the fact that my RTO even refused to accept Forms 29 and 30 from my hand, stating that they can issue only a CC from my RTO (the outgoing RTO) and that Forms 29 and 30 along with my CC should be submitted by the buyer in his RTO (the incoming RTO). In such a scenario, it's confusing as to how some say that it is still the seller's responsibility when the seller's RTO doesn't accept transfer papers.

In the case of motorcycle, as CC/NOC is not involved, the only proof would be the sale receipt and delivery note, which would expire in 30 days, as rightly mentioned by the inspector. Now, the only hope is cops being able to catch that person on road. Really unfortunate that we have to pay the price for irresponsibility on the part of buyers! Hope you find the people with the motorcycle as well as Alto soon.

[Pontiac]

Originally Posted by shijanto4

it's confusing as to how some say that it is still the seller's responsibility when the seller's RTO doesn't accept transfer papers.

Correct and this is only practical when the seller and buyer are based out of same RTO.

Really unfortunate that we have to pay the price for irresponsibility on the part of buyers!

It’s a lesson learnt for me. I have almost made up my mind to not to sell any more autos to anybody other than a reputed dealer.

Hope you find the people with the motorcycle as well as Alto soon.

Thanks Mate!

[shijanto4]

Originally Posted by Pontiac

Correct and this is only practical when the seller and buyer are based out of same RTO.



It’s a lesson learnt for me. I have almost made up my mind to not to sell any more autos to anybody other than a reputed dealer.



Thanks Mate!

You are right! Even I got to learn the same lesson now - sold it to the highest bidder and ended up losing peace of mind. Better to sell it to some reputed dealer than an unknown buyer, even if it means getting a lower price. At least, peace of mind would be guaranteed. Please keep us posted on the developments about your vehicles. Thanks.

[Motard_Blr]

If the buyer lives close to you, there is another possibility. Once the price is fixed, the seller arranges for the clearance certificate in favour of the buyer and arranges to meet the buyer at his jurisdictional RTO. The buyer comes with the money and the documents for the transfer. The seller comes with the car and his set of documents. Hand over money, apply for transfer and then the deal is done. The acknowledgement issued by the RTO is good enough for cops.

This may sound complicated, but this is actually the only way to ensure the transfer happens. My cousin did it this way for his old car and bike.

[the_skyliner]

Originally Posted by shijanto4

Now, I am confused did I do the right thing by saying truth to the cop that the vehicle was sold. My idea was at least now they will go and finish the transfer process. My query is would I still be liable in anyway here? Since the vehicle may go to court, will I be still involved in the court proceedings or will the CC issued from my RTO help me stay out of this mess? I believe the buyer will be in a fix now for not completing the transfer process and will have to run around to get the car released right? Please share your thoughts if anybody had faced a similar situation before.

First of all, you should try calling the guy whom police caught and check on the status. I doubt that Goa police would take a KA registered car to the court. Would be too much of a hassle (jurisdiction wise) for them too. They might have impounded the vehicle and asking for higher fines.

Before you start worrying about the court proceedings, please find out the status of that event with the police.

[shijanto4]

Originally Posted by the_skyliner

First of all, you should try calling the guy whom police caught and check on the status. I doubt that Goa police would take a KA registered car to the court. Would be too much of a hassle (jurisdiction wise) for them too. They might have impounded the vehicle and asking for higher fines.

Before you start worrying about the court proceedings, please find out the status of that event with the police.

I tried calling the same guy next day to know what happened, but he didn't receive my call. Then, I tried calling the guy who bought the car from me, and even he didn't take my call. So, still there is no clarity. I assume they would have bribed the cops and crossed over the state because if the vehicle was still held in Goa, they would have attempted to contact me again (since I am still the registered owner according to that RC book). Don't see a way out unless someone contacts me.

[Pontiac]

The main concern Inspector had whom I spoke to seemed genuine. He told usually people steal a car to use it in smuggling drugs and such. And if the car/motorcycle was caught the registered owner becomes part of the mess automatically. I hope none of us experience anything such.

[shijanto4]

Originally Posted by Pontiac

The main concern Inspector had whom I spoke to seemed genuine. He told usually people steal a car to use it in smuggling drugs and such. And if the car/motorcycle was caught the registered owner becomes part of the mess automatically. I hope none of us experience anything such.

Absolutely right! That's one reason we have to worry for even after the deal. I believe our motor vehicles act has a clear loophole that lets such buyers run without re-registering. Wish this part of the act gets amended in favour of hapless sellers as well.

[Technocrat]

This decision is wrong at so many levels. First its fundamentally wrong to put onus on seller as there is practically no good reason for a seller to not transfer the ownership while there are many for the buyer.

Seller has nothing to hold against the buyer while buyer can actually hold up money if seller doesn't hold up to agreed terms.

Additionally they could have directed RTOs to create a more bulletproof process to avoid any conflicts arising out of transfer of ownership.

Really disappointing decision by SC