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Old 5th March 2010, 13:58   #46
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Any customer wanting a large hatch nowadays has the following options:

1. Fiat Punto P/D
2. Ford Figo P/D
3. VW Polo P/D
4. i20 Kappa/CRDi
5. Maruti Ritz
6. Honda Jazz

The i20, Punto, Polo and Figo all have diesel options which cost approximately 1L more than their petrol counterparts.

Approx On road prices in bangalore are 6.5-6.7L for fully loaded petrol and 7.3-8L OTR fully loaded diesel.

The Honda Jazz is priced at 8.45L on road.

Why would anyone want a petrol hatch which has average features and pay 50-80K more than the diesel counterpart from Ford, VW, Hyundai and Fiat.

The correct pricing for the Jazz should have been above all the petrols and lower than all the diesels.

Price the car at 7.2-7.4L on road and the buyer is left in a dilemma. Should he get a petrol i20, Punto, Polo or Figo all with average performance and average FE or the class topping 1.2L i-Vtec honda engine and biggest interior room for just a few 10-20K more.

On the other hand you have the guys who need a diesel hatch. They will start thinking, Is it worth spending 8L on a diesel hatch? Why not save 30-40K and get the Jazz which has good performance, excellent interior space and honda badge.

Apart from that pricing it at 7L means you get the base model sedan buyers thinking. Instead of Dzire, Fiesta, SX4 why not get a Honda Jazz.

This will really hurt other manufacturers.

The Jazz could have led the premium hatch and base sedan segment but alas Honda decided to kill their own product.
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Old 5th March 2010, 14:12   #47
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IMO at the current pricing Honda should provide Jazz with following specs. that we see in Honda Fit/Jazz abroad.

Quote:
117-hp, 1.5-Liter, 16-Valve SOHC i-VTEC® Engine
Drive-by-Wire™ Throttle System
Steering Wheel-Mounted Paddle Shifters
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Old 5th March 2010, 14:20   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RGK View Post
People do not mind paying 1 to 2 lakh extra for a 20 lakh car but not for a 7-8 lakh purchase. Ultimately if Honda does not correct the price, then Jazz will find its natural death..
Whether it's 8L or 20L, money is money as long as it's heard earned. I don't think a 20L car buyer is going to pay up the 1 or 2L extra money without weighing the pros n cons. Even they like the word VFM albeit the context is different. I mean, a stripped down BMW 3 Series Corporate Edition or fully loaded Superb. To each his own.
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Old 5th March 2010, 14:40   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HammerHead View Post
IMO at the current pricing Honda should provide Jazz with following specs. that we see in Honda Fit/Jazz abroad.
It will never work as the engine size crosses 1.2L. Remember excise is lesser is for cars lesser than 4m length and for engine capacity lesser than 1.2L.
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Old 5th March 2010, 15:13   #50
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I think vid6639 was on the right track. When a potential buyer does all the analysis, it finally comes down to what is on offer for the price.

Now I would say that there are two kinds of buyers i.e. those that would appreciate the exclusivity/feel a need to get something premium vis a vis the Honda badge/appreciate the multiple space concepts that the car boasts of/are really swayed by the futuristic looks of the car etc.

Then there's the other category who would like to own the Honda badge but who will always want to see tangible value in the Jazz like the competition is offering/just don't feel like their getting anything premium from the already expensive Jazz/feel that they can get equivalent sedans from the competition etc.

I guess most folks belong to the 2nd category.
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Old 5th March 2010, 19:59   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HammerHead View Post
IMO at the current pricing Honda should provide Jazz with following specs. that we see in Honda Fit/Jazz abroad.
Yes me too feel the same with 1.5 liter and paddle shift they can justify the price a bit.
Vid:do you think Honda is passing those benefits to customers? For me it's No
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Old 5th March 2010, 21:20   #52
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Honda in India has always been head strong and slightly arrogant. The B+ segment hatches sell because of the features they provide and not because of snob value. I20 sells because of the features they provide which have been unheard of before in this segment. Punto sells more than Jazz for the same reason. IMO a B+ hatch should have all the goodies of a good sedan in a smaller, efficient and HOT package. VFM or snob value is not the mantra here. As of today, there is no snob value for a Hatch in India. A decade from now, it might be a reality.
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Old 5th March 2010, 21:32   #53
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Honda goofed up bigtime right when they said Jazz was a Premium hatchback. What exactly warrants a "premium" tag? Honda thought it was the price while every other company thought it was a loaded car but still managed to be VFM. The jazz doesn't sport a lot of nifty features seen in the other hatches. I don't think the looks have much to do with the sales figures, its a spacious, good-looking, albeit slightly quirky hatch.

No matter how much they tried to downplay its importance, Honda expected to make money off this car which hasn't happened. They've only the City rooting for them, & even that isn't perfect right now.
Price revisions won't matter & a lot of people will come off feeling very cheated. They should add some special editions which come with a lot of tech to neutralize the price a bit. And of course, they'll badly need to add a hatch to the sub-6L bracket.
Feeling bad for the Civic - what a car!
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Old 5th March 2010, 23:24   #54
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IMHO while the 1.5 would be nice I doubt it is a deciding factor, maybe for a small segment of the market, definitely the folks here, but not the majority.

Honda rarely reduces the price of cars, which makes it all the more important for the pricing team to get the pricing right, perhaps they got carried away with the success of the AHNC, which itself is overpriced by 50-1 lakh. They got away with it on the AHNC but too much to pull off on the Jazz.

A pity because it is a brilliant hatch, perhaps the best in the market in terms of space, design, interiors, the engine too is peppy, having the 1.5 as an option would be the ideal scenario addressing different segments of the market.

Some folks say they were targeting a very premium market, clearly they haven't done a good job with it with the current numbers, 50-100k less would have given them volumes but then the premium, exclusivity for its own sake folks would not be thrilled. Why look for 'premium' in consumer grade cars like Honda/Toyota. A BMW, Merc, Beetle, exotics are more suited for that purpose. An everyday car like Jazz cannot should be what it is, nifty, fun and convenient.

Last edited by raul : 5th March 2010 at 23:26.
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Old 5th March 2010, 23:32   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vid6639 View Post
It will never work as the engine size crosses 1.2L. Remember excise is lesser is for cars lesser than 4m length and for engine capacity lesser than 1.2L.
With the current price of Jazz it can be easily achievable. The only thing Honda will loose is couple of $$$ from their profit margin and the same can be even out by increased sales.

How much does Honda has to pay as excise for engine bigger then 1.2ltrs? 50K? 70K? Don't you think that Jazz is overpriced by at least 1.5 to 2.0 Lakh INR?

C'mon Honda don't expect good sales for a Rs. 7.37 Lakh, 1.2ltrs, 90BHP, sub 4mtr hatch!!!
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Old 6th March 2010, 07:36   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HammerHead View Post
With the current price of Jazz it can be easily achievable. The only thing Honda will loose is couple of $$$ from their profit margin and the same can be even out by increased sales.

How much does Honda has to pay as excise for engine bigger then 1.2ltrs? 50K? 70K? Don't you think that Jazz is overpriced by at least 1.5 to 2.0 Lakh INR?

C'mon Honda don't expect good sales for a Rs. 7.37 Lakh, 1.2ltrs, 90BHP, sub 4mtr hatch!!!
Bang on target! Honda has to provide 1.5 L engine with some more featuers. Even in US, FIT (aka Jazz in India) comes with 1.5 L engine with much more fetures like 6 Airbags, Auto Tranny etc. at $14000.00 and still not doing good here.
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Old 6th March 2010, 08:46   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HammerHead View Post
With the current price of Jazz it can be easily achievable. The only thing Honda will loose is couple of $$$ from their profit margin and the same can be even out by increased sales.

How much does Honda has to pay as excise for engine bigger then 1.2ltrs? 50K? 70K? Don't you think that Jazz is overpriced by at least 1.5 to 2.0 Lakh INR?

C'mon Honda don't expect good sales for a Rs. 7.37 Lakh, 1.2ltrs, 90BHP, sub 4mtr hatch!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nitrous Power View Post
Bang on target! Honda has to provide 1.5 L engine with some more featuers. Even in US, FIT (aka Jazz in India) comes with 1.5 L engine with much more fetures like 6 Airbags, Auto Tranny etc. at $14000.00 and still not doing good here.
I don't think that makes economic sense to Honda. First, they have to spend more on the engine, and second they will lose the excise duty savings. Somewhere in the range of 1.5L. It would be better if they bring the price down by a lakh.

And the 1.2L 90PS engine is adequate for the Jazz. The 1.5 is unecessary for a strictly city car.

Last edited by civic-sense : 6th March 2010 at 08:49.
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Old 6th March 2010, 20:20   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by civic-sense View Post
I don't think that makes economic sense to Honda. First, they have to spend more on the engine, and second they will lose the excise duty savings. Somewhere in the range of 1.5L. It would be better if they bring the price down by a lakh.

And the 1.2L 90PS engine is adequate for the Jazz. The 1.5 is unecessary for a strictly city car.
@civic-sense
What is your take on the way forward for Honda ? How do you think Honda can do well in future for hatchback segment?
Otherwise "Jazz" anyway gonna be dead. They have to move fast in this highly competitive segment.

cheers
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Old 6th March 2010, 20:44   #59
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The way forward for Honda is to LOOK BACK and understand where they went wrong.
Alternatively, they can look at this thread !!
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Old 6th March 2010, 21:22   #60
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I think it provides too much value to be a honda. I say give it a better engine, limit it to the top end , and make it a CBU. a higher price = more snob value = more sales !
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