[msprabhakar]

Originally Posted by amitoj

...i will still say that its not underpowered

Sure, I agree. "Underpowered" is a relative term and relates to how much reserve power your car has for "quick getaways". When you want to overtake and notice an oncoming vehicle, you are frequently faced with a situation to judge if you can go for it. Experienced NHC (iDSI) and Baleno drivers will think differently under similar situations-- one gives up when the other goes for it. That's the only difference. I concur with you... A statement like NHC "sucks" is gross injustice to this beauty of design. Incidentally, NHC was primarily designed for bumper-to-bumper Bangkok traffic, hence is not popular in many countries.

[shuvc]

Originally Posted by devarshi84

maruti baleno's prices are updated as of 8 october 2005 on marutibaleno.com. The prices their I suppose are for the new look baleno@ 7.05

In which city is it 7.05 L ex-showroom ?
It seems the price ranges between 6.65 to 6.75 for the new look VXi , after the recent price hikes.

[imjimmy]

Sure, I agree. "Underpowered" is a relative term and relates to how much reserve power your car has for "quick getaways". When you want to overtake and notice an oncoming vehicle, you are frequently faced with a situation to judge if you can go for it. Experienced NHC (iDSI) and Baleno drivers will think differently under similar situations-- one gives up when the other goes for it.

MS,

That's very well put. This is precisely the point i was trying to make.

Underpowered might mean different things to different people. No decent car feels underpowered when you drive it on a plain highway( Any car can go to 150-160 odd on a plain road). The power comes into play when you try to overtake on a busy(single lane) highway or when you climb an incline or overtake on an incline on a curve with a dead view/with a oncoming vehicle down the slope.

On that basis as i said earlier i had driven the NHC on a highway for more than 200 km oneway and back. Frankly, it was a pain.

Maybe because i was mentally more tuned to the Baleno. But i discovered that overtaking maneuveres required planning in many cases for the NHC. It did not climb any sort of semi-incline in the 3rd gear ( even with the AC off). There was no instant burst of power when the throttle was floored(something that is even there in the Zen!).I was sort of reminded of the Indigo.

I have driven many cars on varying tarmac(hills and highways) Swift , Baleno , Esteem , Zen ,Indigo,OHC (1.3) and once an Accent.

That's why i feel that the NHC is good as a city car mainly. With good FE in city and bumper to bumper traffic. But if you are looking for some thrills on the highway/hills ( which you would expect from a more than 7L OTR car) then you're gonna be disappointed.

For the city conditions i can vouch that the NHC is more FE than the other C segmant cars. My friend reports 14-14.5 in city compared to the 13-13.5 km for the Baleno (chd/Delhi). On the Highways it's fairly even with a 0.5 Km difference. The Baleno can go up to 17-18 Km and the NHC upto 18.5. I would imagine that the Lancer should have FE figures in the 5-10% deviation range of the Baleno.

And yes, I think even the OHC 1.3 feels faster( and is more fun to drive ) than the NHC.

Frankly, in the real world i don't think there is any use in comparing the performance of the Baleno and the NHC.

[shuvc]

Originally Posted by devarshi84

mitsubishi lancer is priced at 6.59(offcially advertised) for all lx models(BSII and BSIII) and HM has confirmed this in the press releases.Kolkata must be different due to emission norms but just a thought.

Check this link
http://www.rediff.com/money/2005/oct/24hm.htm

It says, 6.59 L is only for BSII. BSIII costs 38K more. So that's 6.97L Not sure for which city though.
Kolkata as I said , is 7.26L

[shuvc]

Originally Posted by imjimmy

For the city conditions i can vouch that the NHC is more FE than the other C segmant cars.
....
Frankly, in the real world i don't think there is any use in comparing the performance of the Baleno and the NHC.

Say, in a real world case of 100% city driving .. what should be the sequence of preference for these 3 cars , considering only the driveability angle ?

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by devarshi84

features baleno NHC Lancer

resaleprice 6(56.5%) 8(79.2%) 7(68.3%)
price(ex-sow) 7(7.05) 6(7.57) 7(7.10)
A/c 8 6 7
service network 8(??) 6(24 cities) 7(31cities)
performance 8 6 7
luxury 7 8 8
looks 5 7 8
ride 7 7 7
handling 7 7 8
space 7 7 7
Interiors 6 8 6
FE 7 7 7
maintainence 8 7 8

Total 91/130 90/130 94/130

This comaparision helps in better looking at the advantages as many advantages aer better than a 1 point difference.
Honda's service is equivalent but loses a mark for recent customer complaints.

Now this shows that while Lancer doesnt win in all the counts it turns out to be a better car overall.

Your rating table has one serious flaw, lack of weightages. Different people give different weightages to the parameters you mention. In fact you may not find anybody who apply same weightage to all the parameters like in your table. Some care about FE/ride and none about performance and handling. Some may do exactly vice-versa. Therefore the results of your table with proper weightage applied to suit individual tastes would return completely different outcomes to different people.

[shuvc]

Originally Posted by Samurai

Your rating table has one serious flaw, lack of weightages.

That is right .. but I guess @Devarshi can only put in his point of view, with weightages that matter to him .. which is fine.

Anyone looking for inputs from this thread, should look at the features of the cars, which I think, are being discussed quite honestly, and then apply their own weightages.

[devarshi84]

Amitoj I agree with you about NHC's power but see what IMjimmy has posed. And tell me if u think I have not given it average rating for power at 6. lancer is better at 7 and baleno at 8 as it is the most powerful.

Originally Posted by shuvc

Could you give the link to where these features are mentioned ?
I got the current brochure from the Lancer dealer in Kolkata last week.

At 7.26 Ex-showroom for the LX, it
Does NOT have 14" alloys -it has 175/80 R13 steel wheels
Does NOT have a spoiler
Does NOT have a MP3 player - has cassette player.
Does have keyless entry

All upgrades, they said, will come at a cost.


I think you could add another factor .. maintenance costs.
The current issue of ACI has a comparo for the latest spare part costs (which I believe includes the 60% reduction in Lancer spare costs).

If I recall correctly, for the same set of spares,
Baleno comes to 65 K
Lancer around 120 K
NHC, I think was around 100K

Having said that, how much one spends on maintenance over a 5 yr period will differ upon usage and luck .. BUT, in case one is unlucky, the Baleno will pinch you the least.

Shuvc I have already corrected the price = Lancer ex showroom bought by lamborghini with upgraded alloys 195/65 plus spoiler and most probably the cd player on road was 8.00. Less 93k discount comesto 7.07. I have considered 3k more at 7.10 for different cities prices. But if u say BSIII at 7.27 then I will agree with you. that still keeps the game at the same place.

about maintainence costs you dont have any, thanks to the mitsubishi asset care program . Lancer has always been a reliable car. I compared two different used car reviews for the OHC and lancer in autocar sometime ago(some 2004 issues). While prices were mostly similar for the spares lancer's price for some parts were higher but then I found them to last longer than in OHC showing better quality. Baleno proved to be feeble when it comes to reliabity(MRF previously dropped this car from rallies due to the same reason. read the mag which had a cbz/pulsar/fiero/rx-z comparo article) NHC reliability I dont have much idea.

here is the maintainence chart upto 50,000 Kms for the lancer and it costs 16816.00RS (is an approximate)

http://lancerinindia.com/diff/afterc...ost_petrol.asp

http://lancerinindia.com/diff/whylancer/FREEDOM.asp

Originally Posted by amitoj

I agree on the ac part. Its ac can do with some improvements.

I have given it a 6 out of 10

Originally Posted by msprabhakar

In fact, Ichibaan Honda (Chembur) even refused to offer a test drive on the highway saying that it was against their policy, since City was designed for city driving!

infact Landmark Honda told me the NHC was more powerful than the vtec thats y they discontinued it

BUffetfan as I told you in the other thread there are many features in the lxi that are not upgradeable and there is no lancer vx but only the standard LX which is in comparision to the vxi.

and above are the reasons why lancer lx should be compared to the vxi.


Ajmat Its hard to consider safety as all cars come with basic safety features but I guess all the cars will get a 1.5 for NCAP hence equal scores.


Shuvc here is the pricelist from www.marutibaleno.com .click on the price list and select MUmbai.

Baleno Sedan VXi Bharat III =705449


FE Lamborghini researched on this and found that mags gave baleno a .1 FE better than the lancer which is a very inconsistent difference and the scales may tilt into lancers favour the next time. Hence equal points to all.

Originally Posted by samurai

Your rating table has one serious flaw, lack of weightages. Different people give different weightages to the parameters you mention. In fact you may not find anybody who apply same weightage to all the parameters like in your table. Some care about FE/ride and none about performance and handling. Some may do exactly vice-versa. Therefore the results of your table with proper weightage applied to suit individual tastes would return completely different outcomes to different people.

Shuvc thanks for sorting it out

samurai you are confused between weightage and preferences. Weightage remains the same for every1 as I have taken universal points wherever possible to keep partiality down. But yes preferences may differ. IF you want better interiors as the first priority NHC certainly wins over. while dealer network of HOnda is low maybe HM doesnt have a dealer nearby and again NHC becomes a better choice.

I am not trying to sell lancers here and I am not a fan (yeah I love it a lot though) I am just trying to put the facts right and show that lancer is extrememly underestimated car and makes a better buy with the right combination of power and FE. It takes a real test drive on the wild side to know the true spirits of the lancer and its fun to drive factor.

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by devarshi84

samurai you are confused between weightage and preferences. Weightage remains the same for every1 as I have taken universal points wherever possible to keep partiality down.

Actually I am not confused, but your latest reply is taking me there...

Actually I do these kind of comparisions as part of my job, that's why I am pretty sure about weightages. The problem is not with your table. The problem starts when you add all the individual ratings. I am not very academic, can somebody with statistics background please pitch in and shed some light here...

[msprabhakar]

Originally Posted by Samurai

can somebody with statistics background please pitch in and shed some light here...

Naughty Samurai! Want more confusion, heh?! Here goes...

P=a1A1+a2A2+...anAn+C, where P=Individual Overall Preference, a1, a2,... an are weightages given to respective attributes A1, A2,... An and C is a constant factor (also called as the 'X' factor)!

Clear now?!!!

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by msprabhakar

P=a1A1+a2A2+...anAn+C, where P=Individual Overall Preference, a1, a2,... an are weightages given to respective attributes A1, A2,... An and C is a constant factor (also called as the 'X' factor)!

Clear now?!!!

Thanks for the formula. Now can you go ahead and decode the following statement by devarshi84:

Weightage remains the same for every1 as I have taken universal points wherever possible to keep partiality down. But yes preferences may differ.

[msprabhakar]

Originally Posted by Samurai

Now can you go ahead and decode the following statement by devarshi84:

Sorry, I don't understand Vedic (or Devic) statistics...!

[adityapd]

Originally Posted by shuvc

The current issue of ACI has a comparo for the latest spare part costs (which I believe includes the 60% reduction in Lancer spare costs).

If I recall correctly, for the same set of spares,
Baleno comes to 65 K
Lancer around 120 K
NHC, I think was around 100K

Having said that, how much one spends on maintenance over a 5 yr period will differ upon usage and luck .. BUT, in case one is unlucky, the Baleno will pinch you the least.

Hey shuvc,

which issue of ACI has the latest spare parts comparo ? r u referring to the NOV issue ?

~A

[adityapd]

Originally Posted by msprabhakar

Sorry, I don't understand Vedic (or Devic) statistics...!

no offense to anyone but touchwood prabhakar....u made my day mannnnnn!!!!

that was toooooooooo good

~A

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by msprabhakar

Sorry, I don't understand Vedic (or Devic) statistics...!

I figured as much...