[vasudeva]

Another reputed publication came out with a review of MB C-Class.

Ward Auto World in its Oct 2007 issue said that 2008 C-CLASS makes huge strides but fails to go head-to-head with archrival and segment leader, BMW AG's venerable 3-Series. Much is right with the fourth-generation C-Class, which comes in two trim levels - Sport and Luxury - and three configurations - the C300 Sport, C300 Luxury and C350 Sport. Pricing starts at $31,975 for the entry-level C300 Sport and tops out at $37,275 for the C350 Sport.

Behind the wheel of a C300 Sport, there is a discernible improvement in driving dynamics compared with the outgoing model. The '08 C-Class rides on a new platform, which helps increase rigidity by some 13% vs. its predecessor. The change is most noticeable during hard cornering, where little to no body roll is detected.

Steering is well balanced and responsive but lacks the feeling of "oneness" between driver and vehicle that BMWs possess. The 7-speed automatic transmission is good, perhaps even great. But it still does not compare with the short, precise and nearly visceral experience offered by the Bimmer's manual transmission.

Although it can be operated by hand via the Touch Shift manual option, the 7-speed automatic on our tester is smooth, with nearly imperceptible shift points, much different than the previous-generation C-Class' abrupt shifting. One nifty feature is the 7-speed's ability to skip up to three gears during down-shifting, allowing for quick acceleration while navigating erratic traffic.

Inside, Mercedes dials up the luxury factor, with plenty of supple leather and pleasing woods. The handsome, well-appointed '08 C-Class is markedly improved over its predecessor in nearly every aspect.

[merve_extreme]

Originally Posted by vasudeva

Since the discussion was about the WSJ C-Class before it got shifted, here is CR's take on C-Class reliability for 1998-2007.

Attachment 2329

See this is what i was waiting for.Look at the picture the W204,It was launched in Aug 2007 is the US ,how the hell does CR know what is the relaibility of such a new car.

That data is for the old W203 but they will fool ignorant peole by showing the W204.That is why they are unreliable and untrustworthy.

as for the sales,BMW sales includes Mini ,so

anyways

2008 upto FEB(excluding all others)

Mercedes YTD 170,100 (+12%)

BMW YTD: 167,139 (+0,8%)

[merve_extreme]

Originally Posted by vasudeva

Another reputed publication came out with a review of MB C-Class.
.

If you want reputed then get the reviews from proper car magazines,

Autocar UK
Car Magazine UK
AutoExpress
Topgear
AMS
Automobile Mag
Car and Driver
Motor Trend
Road and Track

etc

[HPP]

Originally Posted by merve_extreme

See this is what i was waiting for.Look at the picture the W204,It was launched in Aug 2007 is the US ,how the hell does CR know what is the relaibility of such a new car.

That data is for the old W203 but they will fool ignorant peole by showing the W04.That is whay they are unreliable and untrustworthy.

as for the sales BMW sales includes Mini ,so

anyways

2008 upto FEB(excluding all others)

Mercedes YTD 170,100 (+12%)

BMW YTD: 167,139 (+0,8%)

For new models they say "New Model" and will note any predicted reliability is based on the last model. Which is fair considering it's the same company and it's their history.

Originally Posted by merve_extreme

If you want reputed then get the reviews from proper car magazines,

Autocar UK
Car Magazine UK
AutoExpress
Topgear
AMS
Automobile Mag
Car and Driver
Motor Trend
Road and Track

etc

Those are general car magazines and are more biased then any other.

[merve_extreme]

Originally Posted by GTO

Benz reliability is still NOT a patch on the competition.

And the competition will be? BMW and Audi are as bad if not worse than Mercedes.

As for w221 S-class problems,i think they have to something with the localization (adaption) of the car for our Market,because all these Climate control,suspension and other problems are not heard of elsewhere,at least not on MB car forums and appear to be related to things that are changed for our market.

[vasudeva]

There are user reviews on team-bhp, CR, and numerous other websites. Most people here have paid for their cars. Why should I pay for PR mags which are as good as toilet paper. Perhaps the mags should reveal what proportion of the cars they test that they have bought at their own cost, and whether they pay for service (on their `long term' fleet).

PS: OT: After being a member here and using the internet, I feel that I wasted money on buying some issues of car mags. Unbiased free info is there on the net. Why buy lunch for PR mags.

[merve_extreme]

Originally Posted by HPP

For new models they say "New Model" and will note any predicted reliability is based on the last model. Which is fair considering it's the same company and it's their history.

No it is not fair,the new model is completely new,re engineered to get rid of the problems with the previous car.You can't decide how a new product is based on the fact that its predecessor was poor.What that implies is that "Things don't change" which is absolute rubbish.

Those are general car magazines and are more biased then any other.

Genral are biased and what you post are not.Very funny.The magazines i posted know more about cars than any CR,Ward or WSJ.

Originally Posted by vasudeva

There are user reviews on team-bhp, CR, and numerous other websites. Most people here have paid for their cars. Why should I pay for PR mags which are as good as toilet paper. Perhaps the mags should reveal what proportion of the cars they test that they have bought at their own cost, and whether they pay for service (on their `long term' fleet).

I love the way you include CR.Why take their opinion when you can ask your online friends.

[HPP]

Originally Posted by merve_extreme

And the competition will be? BMW and Audi are as bad if not worse than Mercedes.

As for w221 S-class problems,i think they have to something with the localization (adaption) of the car for our Market,because all these Climate control,suspension and other problems are not heard of elsewhere,at least not on MB car forums and appear to be related to things that are changed for our market.

Ah HaH! We got you to say it! Just kidding of course. :P

Most Euro issues are with electronics and sensors etc.($$) Also some wearables which wear out prematurely and routinely($$). Parts and labor are both killers on these cars.

Various Euro models do have mechanical engine problems as well, but they do not cover the entire range of each make, but each make does have their issues in that arena as well.

[vasudeva]

Originally Posted by merve_extreme

And the competition will be? BMW and Audi are as bad if not worse than Mercedes.

As for w221 S-class problems,i think they have to something with the localization (adaption) of the car for our Market,because all these Climate control,suspension and other problems are not heard of elsewhere,at least not on MB car forums and appear to be related to things that are changed for our market.

Perhaps the Aryan Teutonic purity of Daimler has been diluted because of mixing with:

1. Chrysler (thank god, Daimler exited)
2. Indians (lazy).

Typical of Germans, Americans, .... to blame everyone outside.

[merve_extreme]

Originally Posted by vasudeva

Perhaps the Aryan Teutonic purity of Daimler has been diluted because of mixing with:

1. Chrysler (thank god, Daimler exited)
2. Indians (lazy).

Typical of Germans, Americans, .... to blame everyone outside.

That remark shows how little you know about cars and companies that manufacture them.

Just FYI,

Any car being bought into the Indian Sub-continent has to be re-engineered to our conditions,i:e hot and humid climate,heavy rain,bad roads,bad fuel etc..The Climate control,suspension components and engine are the major parts that get tweaked.What i said was,that something may have gone wrong in this adaptation process.

Another thing is that many CBU's may not have gone through that adaptation process at all and it will definitely affect them here.

[HPP]

Originally Posted by merve_extreme

No it is not fair,the new model is completely new,re engineered to get rid of the problems with the previous car.You can't decide how a new product is based on the fact that its predecessor was poor.What that implies is that "Things don't change" which is absolute rubbish.



Genral are biased and what you post are not.Very funny.The magazines i posted know more about cars than any CR,Ward or WSJ.



I love the way you include CR.Why take their opinion when you can ask your online friends.

It certainly is not rubbish. When you take a look at their past history from one new generation to the next, the issues are still there, and they are generally in the same problem categories. It is why it's call "predicted reliability". Time then shows the facts. It's not that things do not change, it's that they do not change THAT FAST. No car, or company has changed immediately from one model to the next in the history of car making. It is absolutely reasonable to assume there will still be some issues, but lets just hope its better then the last generations cars.

It would be like saying a new Honda Accord's reliability of a new model is not predictable because it's an all "New" model. But that is "rubbish", we both know it will be solid.

Honestly, I am not biased. I would love to love Euro cars, truly, I would. When they reach the quality of Honda/Toyota, I will be all over them.

I take all opinions.

[GTO]

Originally Posted by merve_extreme

And the competition will be? BMW and Audi are as bad if not worse than Mercedes.

Agreed with Audi. Not so with BMW.....they have fared much better on reliability in India. Maybe Maverick can give us some quality info on this.

As for w221 S-class problems,i think they have to something with the localization (adaption) of the car for our Market,because all these Climate control,suspension and other problems are not heard of elsewhere,at least not on MB car forums and appear to be related to things that are changed for our market.

That is hardly an excuse. Does someone paying lakhs of rupees even care? If they sell it in India, they had better make sure nothing goes wrong in the so called "adaptation" process. Anyways, its not like the entire suspension etc. is redesigned for India or anything. Most of them would be minor tweaks.

[merve_extreme]

Originally Posted by HPP

It certainly is not rubbish. When you take a look at their past history from one new generation to the next, the issues are still there, and they are generally in the same problem categories. It is why it's call "predicted reliability". Time then shows the facts. It's not that things do not change, it's that they do not change THAT FAST.

That is an assumption and is not true for all car manufacturers.A company like Mercedes will put maximum effort to make the next model reliable because their image gets affected, but a company like Suzuki or Dodge may not,they don't bother.You cannot generalize these things which CR has a poor habit of doing.

[merve_extreme]

Originally Posted by GTO

That is hardly an excuse. Does someone paying lakhs of rupees even care? If they sell it in India, they had better make sure nothing goes wrong in the so called "adaptation" process. Anyways, its not like the entire suspension etc. is redesigned for India or anything. Most of them would be minor tweaks.

I agree that they don't care and it is Mercedes fault that they have not done enough,what i'm saying is that this may be a local problem and does not affect all Mercedes cars around the world.Something like raising the suspension looks minor but can have detremental effects on the suspension itself if not done properly.Even a non localized AC system will strugle to cope with our climate.

I don't know in India but elsewhere BMW are on par with Mercedes.

[vasudeva]

Originally Posted by merve_extreme

Genral are biased and what you post are not.Very funny.The magazines i posted know more about cars than any CR,Ward or WSJ.

Apart from not knowing anything about cars or their manufacturers, after reading this, I have come to realise that I am perhaps getting info from the wrong source. I shall tell our company to cancel our subscription to CR, Ward, WSJ, Automotive News, Fortune, Industry Week, Harbour, etc; and immediately subscribe to Autocar UK, Car and Driver, Top Gear, and other similar shining examples of automotive knowledge and journalistic integrity and ethics.