[vasudeva]

Can somebody explain the reason for MB's sales trend in its dominant home market, Europe, over the last few years. Clue: European sales are stagnant, but then superior products always gain market share.

2000: MB registrations 709657, share 4.8%, total registrations in Europe: 14746571
2001: 736234, 5%, 14817719
2002: 737082, 5.1%, 14398742
2003: 717850, 5.1%, 14212669
2004: 689183, 4.7%, 14524450
2005: 687877, 4.7%, 14504759
2006: 713757, 4.8%, 14763006
2007: 712617, 4.8%, 14792143

By comparison, BMW's sales (excl. Mini) have increased from 499278 in 2000 to 689241 in 2007. Sales also increased from 670402 in 2006. It could soon overtake MB as the largest luxury brand in Europe (excl. niches for super-expensive cars).

[merve_extreme]

Originally Posted by HPP

Completely incorrect, they quality is worse then ever.

Sorry to say but your information on Mercedes Cars seems limited.Mercedes was at its worst from 1998-2004,not today.All cars made from 2005 are imporving.

Originally Posted by vasudeva

Can somebody explain the reason for MB's sales trend in its dominant home market, Europe, over the last few years. Clue: European sales are stagnant, but then superior products always gain market share.

2000: MB registrations 709657, share 4.8%, total registrations in Europe: 14746571
2001: 736234, 5%, 14817719
2002: 737082, 5.1%, 14398742
2003: 717850, 5.1%, 14212669
2004: 689183, 4.7%, 14524450
2005: 687877, 4.7%, 14504759
2006: 713757, 4.8%, 14763006
2007: 712617, 4.8%, 14792143

By comparison, BMW's sales (excl. Mini) have increased from 499278 in 2000 to 689241 in 2007. Sales also increased from 670402 in 2006. It could soon overtake MB as the largest luxury brand in Europe (excl. niches for super-expensive cars).

Check 2008.Merc are off to a flier and their volume model GLK and facelifted CLS,SL,SLK and ML are yet to reach the showrooms.New E class and CLK are due in 2nd half of 2008.BMW will lose its position as the number 1 luxury car marque in the world.

[C6H12O6]

the new Mercedes has grown on me.
i like the new C class, too bad the wife won't even give it a test drive...

[VIPER_SRT]

Originally Posted by merve_extreme

Sorry to say but your information on Mercedes Cars seems limited.Mercedes was at its worst from 1998-2004,not today.All cars made from 2005 are imporving.
.
.
.
Check 2008.Merc are off to a flier and their volume model GLK and facelifted CLS,SL,SLK and ML are yet to reach the showrooms.New E class and CLK are due in 2nd half of 2008.BMW will lose its position as the number 1 luxury car marque in the world.

My brother works for Mercedes in Montvale, NJ (North American Head quarters) According to him Mercedes were back on track when they got rid of Chrysler with a loss of $26 Billion. The new C class is a result of 6 yrs of R&D and the car is just great. They have incorporated ultra new technology to build a car and now the new 2009 E class is built on the same technology.

Vasudeva: you have to get your facts right. You seem to hate Merc with passion. I'm not sure if you ever drove a Merc but if you are just going by books then every great personality has critics and remember Europian cars esp. Merc, BMW are the innovators of new technologies all the time, so obviously there might be some problems. Lexus just follows their path to make safe cars. Dont forget, Lexus literally ripped off the Merc S class to build their LS series and they openly accepted that fact.

Even after so many critics Merc is still considered the luxury car maker around the world and its still a head turner.

[HPP]

Originally Posted by merve_extreme

Sorry to say but your information on Mercedes Cars seems limited.Mercedes was at its worst from 1998-2004,not today.All cars made from 2005 are imporving.

They have been very bad for a long time now, but they hit the absolute bottom last year. They were ranked at the bottom spot in the 2007 CR annual auto issue. This year they were bumped up one spot by the Land Rover/Range Rover lineup which took the bottom spot.

My information is far from limited. If you take a look at their repair history, they just get worse with age. In the short term they give you a false sense of security with only a few issues(which should be zero issues), but then as you start putting on miles in the 40k - 100k(miles) range, get ready for some hefty dealer charges. Our MB had in the range of $15,000usd extended warranty work in two years time. We sold the car at 80k miles out of pure disgust.

I'd hardly say they are a quality car company, no matter who works for who. They were bad before Chrysler, and they are bad after Chrysler. Chrysler is just an easy excuse for them.

As I have said before, yes they are a head turner, yes they innovate, but their quality is the real issue here. I don't think anyone would say they wouldn't like MB if their quality equaled Lexus.. I'd buy one.

[merve_extreme]

Originally Posted by HPP

They were ranked at the bottom spot in the 2007 CR annual auto issue.

CR ,Ahh I should have known,the appliances rating non profit organization.No wonder Japanese cars are always high up their list.

THE SURVEY AND OUR RATINGS

The 2007 Annual Car Reliability Survey is the largest of its kind and gathered responses on almost 1.3 million vehicles owned or leased by Consumer Reports or ConsumerReports.org subscribers. Those results underpin the most comprehensive reliability data you'll find anywhere. Such a large survey response allows us to provide reliability data on most new or redesigned for 2007 models, and we can also report on some expensive and low-volume models.

BTW do CR even check which car their subscriber actually drives when they send those survey forms to be filled ?

[1100D]

Originally Posted by HPP

My information is far from limited. If you take a look at their repair history, they just get worse with age. In the short term they give you a false sense of security with only a few issues(which should be zero issues), but then as you start putting on miles in the 40k - 100k(miles) range, get ready for some hefty dealer charges. Our MB had in the range of $15,000usd extended warranty work in two years time. We sold the car at 80k miles out of pure disgust.

Which year model was your car?

[HPP]

Originally Posted by merve_extreme

CR ,Ahh I should have known,the appliances rating non profit organization.No wonder Japanese cars are always high up their list.

Can I ask why you changed your post? I am subscribed to this thread and got your original post in my email, here it is:

"CR is the last place on you should refer for auto ratings.They are biased beyond belief,anything Japanese is top stuff for them.

As for their sales,they sell many times more than Lexus for global sales."

You are completely wrong on all accounts, it would be nice to have facts before people post stuff online.

Originally Posted by 1100D

Which year model was your car?

Ours was an 1998 ML320

It was great to drive, and I/we enjoyed it when it wasn't at the dealership getting fixed.. but their lies the problems with the car..

Before anyone says, oh the ML's had problems, they were on par with all the other MB models, so that isn't an excuse.

[HPP]

Originally Posted by merve_extreme

CR ,Ahh I should have known,the appliances rating non profit organization.No wonder Japanese cars are always high up their list.

BTW do CR even check which car the person drives when they send those survey forms to be filled ?

As for your latest change to your post. Yes, it is very detailed. They ask about every single thing in detail. They know make/model/year/options etc(and VIN # I believe, I'll check on that). You obviously know nothing about CR, but are quick to talk them down.

Try using them as a guide to purchasing products and then tell me their value. They are the largest asset a consumer has, and have served our family and everyone I know VERY well. Any time anyone strays from the results in that publication, they suffer the consequence, then you come back to it and are a happy consumer.

Know what you are talking about before you spread untruths.

[merve_extreme]

Originally Posted by HPP

Can I ask why you changed your post? I am subscribed to this thread and got your original post in my email, here it is:

"CR is the last place on you should refer for auto ratings.They are biased beyond belief,anything Japanese is top stuff for them.

As for their sales,they sell many times more than Lexus for global sales."

You are completely wrong on all accounts, it would be nice to have facts before people post stuff online.
.

I changed it because i thought i did not frame my sentense very well.CR are biased,ive said that before else where,i don't need to change anything.

As for your latest change to your post. Yes, it is very detailed. They ask about every single thing in detail. They know make/model/year/options etc(and VIN # I believe, I'll check on that). You obviously know nothing about CR, but are quick to talk them down.

Do you know whether they ask for VIN's,you don't ,and that is the only way you can verify what vehicle a person drives.So you too don't know much either/

Try using them as a guide to purchasing products and then tell me their value. They are the largest asset a consumer has, and have served our family and everyone I know VERY well. Any time anyone strays from the results in that publication, they suffer the consequence, then you come back to it and are a happy consumer.

Maybe it helps you,A 98 ML owner doesn't need CR to tell them it was a bad car.That was the worst car ever made by Mercedes a fact acknowledged by everyone.

I am not spreading rumors.CR is what a US body how does it have to authority about what happen through out the world.JD power is a better reference if you want and here is what they say for the US

Mercedes-Benz and Toyota models capture three segment awards each. Toyota models that receive awards are the4Runner, Sequoia and Tacoma. Mercedes-Benz models that earn awards are the E-Class, SL-Class, and the S-ClassThe S-Class ties with the Audi A8(total) for having the fewest quality problems in the industry, with just 72 problems per 100 vehicles.

“Mercedes-Benz shows dramatic improvement, particularly with its newly-redesigned S-Class, which improves 63 PP100,” said Oddes. “Overall, Mercedes-Benz improves its nameplate rank by 20 positions—the greatest rank increase of any nameplate in the study. All Mercedes-Benz models in the study improved substantially, and the breadth and speed of these improvements demonstrates the Mercedes-Benz commitment to quality.”

[merve_extreme]

maybe you should read this

Statistical problems of Consumer Reports auto ratings

Change, but not for the better:<br><i>Consumer Reports'</i> new ratings -- a think piece on the auto industry, its products, and/or this website.

Consumer Reports Charged with Bias over Coverage of Birth Control Pills

Consumer Reports Defamation Trial Starts

ConsumerReports.org - Consumer Reports withdraws infant car seat report 1/07

Consumer Reports retracts car seat study - Consumer news - MSNBC.com

I don't trust organizations with such a brialliant record.

[HPP]

Originally Posted by merve_extreme

I changed it because i thought i did not frame my sentense very well.CR are biased,ive said that before else where,i don't need to change anything.



Do you know whether they ask for VIN's,you don't ,and that is the only way you can verify what vehicle a person drives.So you too don't know much either/



Maybe it hepls you,A 98 ML owner doen't need CR to tell them it was a bad car.That was the wrost car ever made by Mercedes a fact acknowleded by everyone.

I am not spreading rumors.CR is what a US body how does it have to authority about what happen through out the world.JD power is a better refrence is you want and here is what they say for the US

Can you back up your claims of CR being biased? Or is it just your personal feeling?

I will check on the VIN number info, I will not post that up as if I remember correctly. It has been a few years since I filled out the survey, normally my brother takes the time to do the family cars. However, if you believe that there are a huge number of people out there taking the time to falsely fill out the extremely long survey just to slander the name of MB, then I think you may be a bit paranoid.

It is obvious you are a MB fan because of your signature, but it doesn't change the facts that MB is struggling in regards to cost of ownership/reliability.

US cars are generally held to the highest standard the car makers have to abide by, it is a very good representation of what a company builds. JD powers shows "initial quality", which really means nothing of how they will hold up over time, so they are pretty much useless. Things like body gaps etc do not show how much the car will cost you over time.

Here is a small snip it of how they rate:

ConsumerReports.org - How Consumer Reports tests cars

Here is a small snip it of reliability ratings(take note of "European makes account for 17 models on the Least reliable list. This includes six each from Mercedes-Benz and Volkswagen/Audi.":

ConsumerReports.org - Reliability trends

[merve_extreme]

Originally Posted by HPP

Can you back up your claims of CR being biased? Or is it just your personal feeling?

Maybe you did not read the post above.Go through it.

Here is a small snip it of how they rate:

ConsumerReports.org - How Consumer Reports tests cars

Here is a small snip it of reliability ratings(take note of "European makes account for 17 models on the Least reliable list. This includes six each from Mercedes-Benz and Volkswagen/Audi.":

ConsumerReports.org - Reliability trends

Already gone through it,from where did you think i got my CR quote 7 post prior to this,it was from that website.

It is obvious you are a MB fan because of your signature, but it doesn't change the facts that MB is struggling in regards to cost of ownership/reliability.

Yeah it doesn't have to.Mercedes cars are much better than the 98 ML, you agree or not.

[HPP]

Originally Posted by merve_extreme

maybe you should read this

Statistical problems of Consumer Reports auto ratings

Change, but not for the better:<br><i>Consumer Reports'</i> new ratings -- a think piece on the auto industry, its products, and/or this website.

Consumer Reports Charged with Bias over Coverage of Birth Control Pills

Consumer Reports Defamation Trial Starts

ConsumerReports.org - Consumer Reports withdraws infant car seat report 1/07

Consumer Reports retracts car seat study - Consumer news - MSNBC.com

I don't trust organizations with such a brialliant record.

Please.. this proves nothing. If you want to attack any large company, you can find something to try and slander them. There is no company on earth which is perfect. Lets start to dig into other companies then compare the negatives of each.. Waste of time. Fact is, for the consumer market, there is no better source for information. All information can't be 100% perfect, but it is the best out there. These are consumer guides, and as they go, CR is the best.

Trying to slander CR doesn't change the fact that MB produces cars which have many many issues. We have a lot of family and friends who own them(the ENTIRE range), they all agree the cars have too many problems. I do not try to get them to not buy them, but if they ask, I give them my honest opinion. THEY SUCK.

[merve_extreme]

Ok forget others blaming CR,why did CR retract its Child Seat study?