F1 Spy Scandal on eve of the European GP

prince85 · 17th May 2006, 16:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by sujaylahiri

The amount of money, resources and technology Ferrari has, with that if they can't win races, then I'm sorry for them mate.
Not to count the number of times they have discriminated against Barrichello. What has MS proved to the people by winning those world championships? That when you have the best car and little competition from other people, you can be a world champion. What about Ayrton Senna? What about Mark Webber in a Minardi?

Shummi has won championships at renault as well back in 94 and 95. The resources ferrari has today is because MS raised the team ferrari from 1996 when ferrari was just a mid-field team struggling to finish in the top10. Shummi started winning races which made Ferrari attract a lot more sponsors and then since MS started winning championships from 2000 till 2004 it only made the team richer. Soo what are you trying to say. Just because ferrari didn't win races last season its a bad team??? Toyota has one of the biggest budgets in F1, did they win a single race???? What has money got to do???I agree it makes a difference as far as improving the technology constantly which is used by the team but then is money the only reason that makes teams and drivers win races? And yup, i do agree Ferrari is the richest team soo you want them to win all the races soo that F1 becomes boring like 00-01-02-03-04 when MS used to win nearly every race???????

sujaylahiri · 17th May 2006, 16:35

When MS won the championship in 1994, it was Benetton Renault. It was like the modern day Williams. They might not be the best, but they were very good. Also, FIAT had taken over the management in the late 80s.
In the early and mid 1990s Ferrari had great drivers like Alain Prost, Jean Alesi and Eddie Irvine. Before that they had Nigel Mansell. They might not be winning every race but they were a respectable team. And all their difficulties were technical and management related. After Schumacher came to Ferrari, it's just his luck that they had better engineers who managed to sort out most of the problems and provide him with a good car. And he had Jean Todt.
How about his move on Villeneuve to drive him off the track at Jerez in 1997 when they were arch rivals? Do u see Kimi or even Alonso doing that? Is that the sign of a great driver and a great team?

prince85 · 17th May 2006, 16:49

[quote=sujaylahiri]When MS won the championship in 1994, it was Benetton Renault. It was like the modern day Williams. They might not be the best, but they were very good. Also, FIAT had taken over the management in the late 80s.
In the early and mid 1990s Ferrari had great drivers like Alain Prost, Jean Alesi and Eddie Irvine.

You are absolutely right on that

Before that they had Nigel Mansell. They might not be winning every race but they were a respectable team. And all their difficulties were technical and management related. After Schumacher came to Ferrari, it's just his luck that they had better engineers who managed to sort out most of the problems and provide him with a good car.

You cant say that, result is a result, luck or whatever you feel like saying but then they had convincing victories under their bag. That was a time dominated by Mclaren Mercedes driven by Mika Hakinen and DC under the technical head adrian newey who was the best around at that time, he was rated higher than Ross Brawn of Ferrari. Mclaren Mercedes were much better cars during that period during 98,99,00 but still MS was winning races and came in 2nd in the championship in 98 and won it in 00.

And he had Jean Todt.

He is just a team prinipal, what about him???

How about his move on Villeneuve to drive him off the track at Jerez in 1997 when they were arch rivals?

Well, i agree on that. It was a bad move but i guess he was punished for that by the FIA taking away all his championship points for that particular season

Do u see Kimi or even Alonso doing that? Is that the sign of a great driver and a great team?

Who knows?? How long have we seen Kimi and Alonso in F1. Do you know them personally that you feel they won't do a thing like that???? A Racing driver is very instinctive but then you can't just brag about one particular incident and put down a legend that Michael is. He has contributed a lot to the world of F1 and its not right for us to put him down like this

sujaylahiri · 17th May 2006, 17:13

Well I can clearly predict that such an incident won't happen with Kimi or Fernando in the next 5 years. And MS did it in 1997. That was his 7th year in Formula 1.
And Jean Todt is one of the most influential Sporting Directors in Formula 1 history. No one dares to do anything against him. He is like the godfather of all the team directors.
If you look at Ayrton Senna, that guy had a gear shift on his right side on the floor and his right hand was constantly engaged in gear shifting. With that he created history. Look at the video of his Monaco flying lap and you'll see how good he is. All MS has to do is to flick paddles or drive automatics.

prince85 · 17th May 2006, 17:22

[quote=sujaylahiri]Well I can clearly predict that such an incident won't happen with Kimi or Fernando in the next 5 years. And MS did it in 1997. That was his 7th year in Formula 1.

Well are you an astrologer to predict

If you look at Ayrton Senna, that guy had a gear shift on his right side on the floor and his right hand was constantly engaged in gear shifting. With that he created history. Look at the video of his Monaco flying lap and you'll see how good he is.

I don't have to know from you how good Senna was!!!! I don't deny the fact that Senna was a great driver but then what are you trying to say????First you compare MS with Kimi and Alonso and now you are comparing him with the late great Aryton Senna????

All MS has to do is to flick paddles or drive automatics

So do everyone in F1 these days. So is it MS's fault that the gearshifts are automatics in current F1 cars ????? Technology has come a long way since the Aryton Senna days. The cars are surely easier to drive now but they are much faster too.

tifosikrishna · 17th May 2006, 18:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by sujaylahiri

After Schumacher came to Ferrari, it's just his luck that they had better engineers who managed to sort out most of the problems and provide him with a good car. And he had Jean Todt.

Its the best joke i have ever heard, remember it took 5 long years for schumi to build the car and team before he could win a world championship.

manson · 17th May 2006, 18:17

when a normal man think about f1, the first few things that strike him are schumacher and ferrari. thats what the man has given the sport, i don't think it would be wrong to say that the viewership that f1 has now compared to even 5-6 years back can be partially credited to schumi.
and yet we have some people who just go on and on about the damon hill, villneuve incidents, look beyond that for once people, look at the out of the world stuff.

manson.

p.s. to remind you guys i am yet a barrichelo fan

vinod · 17th May 2006, 18:40

I'm not sure whether to believe this or not but if renault is intercepting spying on ferrari and listening to their strategies, we should see a dominating Renault again otherwise Ferrari with their current pace should end up on the podium each time.

DaPilot · 17th May 2006, 18:54

You guys are getting way

Bottom line is the constructor that builds the better car matters more then the driver.

About Spying - It will never stop, its become an integral part of the game!

About Shumi - He is a legend no doubt about that... at the same time is witty you cant blame him for that quality!

One particular incident comes to my mind when he got into an accident and then drove on 3 tyres into the pit lane, that is awesome!

Anyone rememebers that? this must be 1997 or 98 season.

prince85 · 17th May 2006, 19:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaPilot

One particular incident comes to my mind when he got into an accident and then drove on 3 tyres into the pit lane, that is awesome!

Anyone rememebers that? this must be 1997 or 98 season.

I guess it was the Belgian Grand Prix at Spa in the year 1998. It was a wet race and Shummi was leading with a lead of 30+ seconds when DC in his Mclaren Mercedes who was going to be lapped by MS deceided to brake hard just when Shummi was gonna lap him. This resulted in Shummi crashing into the back of DC's car which destroyed the right front suspension and ripped off the tire with it. Shummi miraculously managed to drive his car back into the pits into retirement with his car on 3 wheels.

And Shummi was furious with DC and stormed into the Mclaren's pit area and gave DC a mouthfull of $#$##$$#

adya33 · 17th May 2006, 19:46

NOTE FROM MODERATOR : Kindly stick to the topic. Everyone has their favorite drivers but please avoid discussing them in this thread.

DaPilot · 17th May 2006, 20:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by prince85

I guess it was the Belgian Grand Prix at Spa in the year 1998. It was a wet race and Shummi was leading with a lead of 30+ seconds when DC in his Mclaren Mercedes who was going to be lapped by MS deceided to brake hard just when Shummi was gonna lap him. This resulted in Shummi crashing into the back of DC's car which destroyed the right front suspension and ripped off the tire with it. Shummi miraculously managed to drive his car back into the pits into retirement with his car on 3 wheels.

And Shummi was furious with DC and stormed into the Mclaren's pit area and gave DC a mouthfull of $#$##$$#

Dude great memory... thanks!

merve_extreme · 17th May 2006, 21:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by sujaylahiri

If you look at Ayrton Senna, that guy had a gear shift on his right side on the floor and his right hand was constantly engaged in gear shifting. With that he created history. Look at the video of his Monaco flying lap and you'll see how good he is. All MS has to do is to flick paddles or drive automatics.

yes we know you have seen race day program on star sports.
if you dont remember let me tell you when Ayrton died in that tragic accident at San Marino,MS was chasing him.so they were both driving cars with the same gear system.

merve_extreme · 17th May 2006, 21:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by prince85

And Shummi was furious with DC and stormed into the Mclaren's pit area and gave DC a mouthfull of $#$##$$#

Actually he was so furious that he got a little physical with DC(just pushing around).

But those years were different.Now if you see he dosent do many blocking moves,he has changed with age but he is still as fast as ever.

karthik247 · 17th May 2006, 21:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by merve_extreme

Actually he was so furious that he got a little physical with DC(just pushing around).

But those years were different.Now if you see he dosent do many blocking moves,he has changed with age but he is still as fast as ever.

Some sort of physical action was there in last years' GP with Sato(?) crashed into the back of MS pushing him off the track and into retirement. MS just got out of the car and slightly banged Sato's helmet

PS- Or was it Trulli??

No one makes risky moves these days in F1 except for JPM and Kimi. Esp JPM, he'll do anytin and everyting to get past the cars in front...

MS is fast no doubt, but he takes his own time and relies on his strategy to get past the cars in front..

17th May 2006, 16:35	#17
sujaylahiri BHPian Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: North America Posts: 960 Thanked: 6 Times View My Garage	When MS won the championship in 1994, it was Benetton Renault. It was like the modern day Williams. They might not be the best, but they were very good. Also, FIAT had taken over the management in the late 80s. In the early and mid 1990s Ferrari had great drivers like Alain Prost, Jean Alesi and Eddie Irvine. Before that they had Nigel Mansell. They might not be winning every race but they were a respectable team. And all their difficulties were technical and management related. After Schumacher came to Ferrari, it's just his luck that they had better engineers who managed to sort out most of the problems and provide him with a good car. And he had Jean Todt. How about his move on Villeneuve to drive him off the track at Jerez in 1997 when they were arch rivals? Do u see Kimi or even Alonso doing that? Is that the sign of a great driver and a great team?
	() Thanks

17th May 2006, 16:49	#18
prince85 BHPian Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Mumbai Posts: 971 Thanked: 123 Times	[quote=sujaylahiri]When MS won the championship in 1994, it was Benetton Renault. It was like the modern day Williams. They might not be the best, but they were very good. Also, FIAT had taken over the management in the late 80s. In the early and mid 1990s Ferrari had great drivers like Alain Prost, Jean Alesi and Eddie Irvine. You are absolutely right on that Before that they had Nigel Mansell. They might not be winning every race but they were a respectable team. And all their difficulties were technical and management related. After Schumacher came to Ferrari, it's just his luck that they had better engineers who managed to sort out most of the problems and provide him with a good car. You cant say that, result is a result, luck or whatever you feel like saying but then they had convincing victories under their bag. That was a time dominated by Mclaren Mercedes driven by Mika Hakinen and DC under the technical head adrian newey who was the best around at that time, he was rated higher than Ross Brawn of Ferrari. Mclaren Mercedes were much better cars during that period during 98,99,00 but still MS was winning races and came in 2nd in the championship in 98 and won it in 00. And he had Jean Todt. He is just a team prinipal, what about him??? How about his move on Villeneuve to drive him off the track at Jerez in 1997 when they were arch rivals? Well, i agree on that. It was a bad move but i guess he was punished for that by the FIA taking away all his championship points for that particular season Do u see Kimi or even Alonso doing that? Is that the sign of a great driver and a great team? Who knows?? How long have we seen Kimi and Alonso in F1. Do you know them personally that you feel they won't do a thing like that???? A Racing driver is very instinctive but then you can't just brag about one particular incident and put down a legend that Michael is. He has contributed a lot to the world of F1 and its not right for us to put him down like this
	() Thanks

17th May 2006, 17:13	#19
sujaylahiri BHPian Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: North America Posts: 960 Thanked: 6 Times View My Garage	Well I can clearly predict that such an incident won't happen with Kimi or Fernando in the next 5 years. And MS did it in 1997. That was his 7th year in Formula 1. And Jean Todt is one of the most influential Sporting Directors in Formula 1 history. No one dares to do anything against him. He is like the godfather of all the team directors. If you look at Ayrton Senna, that guy had a gear shift on his right side on the floor and his right hand was constantly engaged in gear shifting. With that he created history. Look at the video of his Monaco flying lap and you'll see how good he is. All MS has to do is to flick paddles or drive automatics.
	() Thanks

17th May 2006, 17:22	#20
prince85 BHPian Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Mumbai Posts: 971 Thanked: 123 Times	[quote=sujaylahiri]Well I can clearly predict that such an incident won't happen with Kimi or Fernando in the next 5 years. And MS did it in 1997. That was his 7th year in Formula 1. Well are you an astrologer to predict If you look at Ayrton Senna, that guy had a gear shift on his right side on the floor and his right hand was constantly engaged in gear shifting. With that he created history. Look at the video of his Monaco flying lap and you'll see how good he is. I don't have to know from you how good Senna was!!!! I don't deny the fact that Senna was a great driver but then what are you trying to say????First you compare MS with Kimi and Alonso and now you are comparing him with the late great Aryton Senna???? All MS has to do is to flick paddles or drive automatics So do everyone in F1 these days. So is it MS's fault that the gearshifts are automatics in current F1 cars ????? Technology has come a long way since the Aryton Senna days. The cars are surely easier to drive now but they are much faster too.
	() Thanks

17th May 2006, 18:17	#22
manson Team-BHP Support Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Bombay Posts: 3,934 Thanked: 4,169 Times View My Garage	when a normal man think about f1, the first few things that strike him are schumacher and ferrari. thats what the man has given the sport, i don't think it would be wrong to say that the viewership that f1 has now compared to even 5-6 years back can be partially credited to schumi. and yet we have some people who just go on and on about the damon hill, villneuve incidents, look beyond that for once people, look at the out of the world stuff. manson. p.s. to remind you guys i am yet a barrichelo fan
	() Thanks

17th May 2006, 18:40	#23
vinod BHPian Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Detroit Posts: 131 Thanked: 9 Times	I'm not sure whether to believe this or not but if renault is intercepting spying on ferrari and listening to their strategies, we should see a dominating Renault again otherwise Ferrari with their current pace should end up on the podium each time.
	() Thanks

17th May 2006, 18:54	#24
DaPilot BHPian Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Newport (JC), NJ - USA Posts: 187 Thanked: Once View My Garage	You guys are getting way Bottom line is the constructor that builds the better car matters more then the driver. About Spying - It will never stop, its become an integral part of the game! About Shumi - He is a legend no doubt about that... at the same time is witty you cant blame him for that quality! One particular incident comes to my mind when he got into an accident and then drove on 3 tyres into the pit lane, that is awesome! Anyone rememebers that? this must be 1997 or 98 season.
	() Thanks

17th May 2006, 19:46	#26
adya33 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Pune Posts: 1,839 Thanked: 183 Times	NOTE FROM MODERATOR : Kindly stick to the topic. Everyone has their favorite drivers but please avoid discussing them in this thread.
	() Thanks