[Hatari]

Originally Posted by iamahunter

Max has already opted out of Drive to Survive. Which I believe, means Netflix will not be able to use his name or identity(am I right here?).

I believe they cant send a crew to him but no other restriction, they can get FIA footage of him ofcourse.

Originally Posted by DIY410

Stewards said Max applied a brake pressure in excess of 60bar plus, (that's equivalent of water pressure coming from a pipe from a water tank located 1000feet above), there was a 2.4g deceleration.

Lewis said he was slowing down unsure of what is happening, remember Max wasn't exactly moving to one side, for the most part he was in middle. You have to see it from the point of Lewis, after all of Max dirty driving you can't expect Lewis not to be cautious.
Once Lewis did get the message he was being let through, Max braked suddenly and Lewis had to avoid it, Lewis loosing a wing or both being out of race will favor Max.

Lewis has admitted intentionally not passing Max to avoid giving him DRS, no there is no question of him getting taken by surprise.
Max braked suddenly after 200 metres of gradual speed reduction.

This is a bit of football tripping over and asking for a yellow card.

[DIY410]

Originally Posted by Hatari

Lewis has admitted intentionally not passing Max to avoid giving him DRS, no there is no question of him getting taken by surprise.
Max braked suddenly after 200 metres of gradual speed reduction.

This is a bit of football tripping over and asking for a yellow card.

By the time he was made aware Lewis had already slowed down and within seconds Max braked checked, the key here is Max brake checking and that is why he got a penalty.

[manishk123]

Very dirty tactics by Max all the way! He's lost my complete respect as a driver! And after all his dirty tricks, he walked off the podium without celebrating with the others, as if to show he was the victim! How could people vote for him as Driver of the Day after all those antics! Truly shameful! I think even the 10 second penalty is too mild a punishment for him. He was clearly trying to take out Hamilton so that he maintains his lead in the final race.

[DIY410]

Originally Posted by manishk123

Very dirty tactics by Max all the way! He's lost my complete respect as a driver! And after all his dirty tricks, he walked off the podium without celebrating with the others, as if to show he was the victim! How could people vote for him as Driver of the Day after all those antics! Truly shameful! I think even the 10 second penalty is too mild a punishment for him. He was clearly trying to take out Hamilton so that he maintains his lead in the final race.

Driver of the day, its mainly done by the orange army. I heard that they even strategically take the grand stand where the podium is located to maximize the boos to Lewis, so that it can be picked up by the microphones and trying to get into Lewis head. Since else where on the track there is still a lot of neutral fans( except may be in netherlands and belgium, where do to proximity its all orange army)
We saw how the penalty and the crowd support in Brazil woke up the Lion in Lewis.

[krish11]

I do think that FIA did not cover themselves in glory with their decisions last night. While disciplining Max was warranted, Bottas and Hamilton's indiscretions seem to be overlooked. Bottas slowing up the field after the first safety car to get a double pit stop going for Mercedes enabled Lewis to line up right behind Max, who did not pit, chasing the safety car. And then at the restart Hamilton was well beyond the 10 race car length distance between the lead car and himself. Both these were overlooked by stewards and race director.

Also on the Max/Hamilton touch - what held back Hamilton to overtake Max ? Forget about racing, even in normal road driving, its the responsibility of the driver of the rear car to maintain safe breaking distance or overtake a slowing car ahead safely when there are no warning signs - There were no yellow/VSC flags asking driver to slow down, Hamilton should have overtaken and then relied on his engine power to stay ahead.

[mayankk]

Originally Posted by krish11

I
Both these were overlooked by stewards and race director.

.

That rule did not apply. Was clarified during the race itself. Post that, Horner has done a Horner already, "f1 has too many rules"

[BlueFreedom]

Originally Posted by krish11

I do think that FIA did not cover themselves in glory with their decisions last night. And then at the restart Hamilton was well beyond the 10 race car length distance between the lead car and himself.

Masi clarified this rule is not applicable for restart, however agree with your thoughts FIA being not up to the task

Originally Posted by krish11

Also on the Max/Hamilton touch - what held back Hamilton to overtake Max ? Forget about racing, even in normal road driving, its the responsibility of the driver of the rear car to maintain safe breaking distance or overtake a slowing car ahead safely when there are no warning signs - There were no yellow/VSC flags asking driver to slow down, Hamilton should have overtaken and then relied on his engine power to stay ahead.

I would say the circumstances, Max was found weaving a bit and for a fraction of second Ham assumed there might have been a VSC, under these circumstances you are not supposed to overtake. Normally drivers when giving up a position are found on the extremes either the inside or outside Max wasn't, I'm using the word normally as its not a rule. Max has been found to be an unreliable and unpredictable driver in the recent past hence Ham was probably cautious.

[corvus corax]

All these people on the internet calling Max a dirty driver almost restored my faith in humanity. These are people who have always lived by law, followed every rule and are waiting to ascend directly into heaven! 😂 The knight followers are as hypocrites as him. 🤭

[Hayek]

Am not getting into the rights and wrongs of what Max and Lewis did. The fact is that every great F1 driver and team has done whatever it takes to win - including outright cheating. The only sin is getting caught.

And that’s the exact problem with Max - he is emotional and reactive, instead of being strategic. The restart incident was certain to have earned him a penalty - and while he gave that place back, he had landed in the bad books of the stewards (think of it as a yellow card) - with the result that he was penalised for the next incident which even the British commentators agreed was far more forgivable (and nowhere near as bad as what champions of the past like Senna, Prost and Schumi have done).

The brake test was also unnecessary - though I can understand what he was trying to do, get behind Hamilton before the DRS zone. The fact is that he asked to be penalised and was penalised. Lewis would have been equally unsportsmanlike / but in a more refined manner to not get caught. Glad the stewards set the penalty such that the tie was preserved (do you think they didn’t realise what they were doing?), and we are all set for a cracking finale in Abu Dhabi.

As an aside, the race was exciting - but this track seems far too dangerous to be present in modern day F1. And frankly but for the championship position and the outcome, the race with so many restarts, yellow flags et al in dry conditions would have been a drag.

[shibujp]

Mercedes is an extremely mature team and a more complete package than Red Bull. And this is why they are able to respond so effectively.

Mercedes breaks the spirit of so many F1 rules without breaking the rules themselves. And this is not by mistake. Bottas holding back Verstappen before pitting was not penalised for instance because he was at the lower end of the delta while Hamilton was at the higher end. Anyone who thinks that this was something that this is the genius of Lewis Hamilton is sadly misguided. There are some many similar instances throughout the season. This are all tactics well crafted and implemented. Does it break the rules? No. Does it break the spirit of the rules. In my book yes.

Secondly the lack of a supporting driver is well illustrated. Verstappen was fighting with one hand tied behind him... exactly the same position Vettel was in 2018. Max threw the whole bucket and then some at Mercedes. Fair enuf. That is his genius.

Ron Meadows tells Masi that he did not hear the instruction that Verstappen would give back the place. Says who? He may have decided to tactically ignore that channel. Can F1 penalise him. No. There may not be a rule.

Verstappen's tactics are as good and bad as Mercedes. He understands Mercedes' duplicity when it comes to "fair play" and responds. Now where it may hurt him is when the stewards are forced to penalise him because he breaks the explicit definitions of the rule book. But he is smart too here I feel. If you look at him being penalised it has not effectively impacted his championship chances. To bring the championship to the last race in itself is a huge huge achievement for Verstappen and Red Bull.

Well played by RB and Verstappen. Onto Abu Dhabi. Let the brave man win. Hypocritical notions of fair play be damned.

Drive on,
Shibu

[nitkel]

Originally Posted by shibujp

Mercedes breaks the spirit of so many F1 rules without breaking the rules themselves.
Ron Meadows tells Masi that he did not hear the instruction that Verstappen would give back the place. Says who? He may have decided to tactically ignore that channel.
Now where it may hurt him is when the stewards are forced to penalise him because he breaks the explicit definitions of the rule book. But he is smart too here I feel.
Well played by RB and Verstappen. Onto Abu Dhabi. Let the brave man win. Hypocritical notions of fair play be damned.

All teams play around the F1 rules! If you think RB does not then you haven't been watching F1 since Vettel days! So it's fair game. This outrage from F1 followers is not about team strategies at all, it's about the on-track behavior of Max. Weaving on the track, pushing your competitor deliberately off the track aggressively, brake checking them, shows no genius! More like an entitled fool who thinks rules are for everybody else!

[Fiestaboy]

Originally Posted by BlueFreedom

Masi clarified this rule is not applicable for restart, however agree with your thoughts FIA being not up to the task



I would say the circumstances, Max was found weaving a bit and for a fraction of second Ham assumed there might have been a VSC, under these circumstances you are not supposed to overtake.

Lewis was not slowing down just simply because its VSC. Any F1 driver will not slow unless they see VSC or yellow flags waved.

It was DRS detection zone for the pit straight & hence both acted cleverly.
Max wanted to give the position back, get DRS & overtake him.

Lewis knows the trick & he said he is aware of DRS tactics & hence didn't overtook him.
Though in Press, he put VSC first & then DRS tactics as second.

[shibujp]

Originally Posted by nitkel

All teams play around the F1 rules! If you think RB does not then you haven't been watching F1 since Vettel days! So it's fair game. This outrage from F1 followers is not about team strategies at all, it's about the on-track behavior of Max. Weaving on the track, pushing your competitor deliberately off the track aggressively, brake checking them, shows no genius! More like an entitled fool who thinks rules are for everybody else!

Yes, you are right I started watching F1 last weekend.

Between what in my post made you feel that I was implying that RB does not play around with the rules? I'll be happy to clarify the same if I have stated so.

Drive on,
Shibu.

[ZenMaster]

The worst offenders in this race were Michael Masi and the Stewards. Honestly the Driver&Team antics come second.

On top of all the confusion & drama created by their Redflag timings, making penalty offers to teams, messing up the communication regarding the Place swap(if we Mercedes wasn't lying) etc.
How on earth did people like Leclerc and Raikonnen get away with not even a penalty? Leclerc got away with it in Austria also when he took off Gasly's Wing. He didn't get a penalty that time either.

Leclerc caused the biggest crash while aiming for a non-existent gap between Perez and a wall and Kimi almost took Seb out crashing into his side and both drivers got away without repercussions

Many a times, they seem more confused than the viewers and commentators as to what should be done in a particular case and then overreacting later to cover their shortfalls.

[sidharthg]

That's what I'm talking about! Finally a super exciting race in decades! Reminded me of the times when the F1 God M.Schumacher used to pull such tricks out of the bag to win races. Bending each and everyone one of the regulation, finding that very thing grey line and risk it all!

We can all sit and debate the ethical part of it or who was right or wrong, but the bottom line is that it was a super exciting race. True to the Saudi Land, the race too was chaotic and full of action!

We really need races that are not won or lost by Stewarts and Penalties. They should be won by risks, perseverance and skills. We need some punches thrown in as well. I remember, when M Schumacher almost came to blows with Coulthard in 1998 'Spa F1 after one of the crashes. Now that's what I call exciting!

Bring it on Max & Ham..