[procrj]

Originally Posted by Spals

I have finally got the delivery of my XL6 Zeta AT Auburn Red.

Congratulations on buying a very practical car and great color choice. Delivery posts are incomplete without pics of the car!

2. Vinyl Flooring (was offered this free of cost by the Dealer)

Do share a few pics, would like to see how it looks and feels.

4. Yoko BluEarth GT 195/65 R15 - 4 tyres

Would recommend you exchange the spare as well and use all 5 tyres. I have done the same and since you already have 5 TPMS sensors, it shouldnt be a big hassle.

4. Good Engine response at lower speeds in City. Quite quick off the blocks for a vehicle of this size.

Probably the first person to say this, looks like you are revving the car hard to get out of the blocks quick.

This car needs damping. Waiting for Shashi to post his damping thread!!

+1 to that, damping makes a lot of difference to the NVH inside the car.

2. Engine Response at higher speeds - The engine is not very responsive between 2000 - 3000 rpm, you need to keep it below or above this range to get good response. 4 speed AT plus a tendency to shift up too quickly amplifies this problem when overtaking on highways.

I drive the MT and 2500-3500 RPM in 2nd/3rd gear is where I find myself when I need to get a move and gain speed.

3. Cruise Control - This is tuned too aggressively I feel. The car shifts down for small increase in gradient unnecessarily at high speeds. Cruising at 100-110 down shifting suddenly revs the engine to 4k+ and this can surprise you if you are not prepared.

Again this seems to be a function of the TC AT and you might just want to put your foot on the accelerator when you sense a gradient.

Wishing you many happy years and kms of owernship

[audioholic]

Originally Posted by procrj

.
Again this seems to be a function of the TC AT and you might just want to put your foot on the accelerator when you sense a gradient.

How does putting foot on accelerator work in this situation? It would not make a difference or rather it would make the up shift happen much quicker.

[procrj]

Originally Posted by audioholic

How does putting foot on accelerator work in this situation? It would not make a difference or rather it would make the up shift happen much quicker.

Foot on A pedal would take you out of CC mode and hence the AT might not necessarily upshift. But I do see your point, if the AT senses higher load, then it could up shift and end up revving the engine. This seems like a catch 22, the AT will downshift and rev the engine, irrespective of CC being engaged.

[ashis89]

Originally Posted by audioholic

How does putting foot on accelerator work in this situation? It would not make a difference or rather it would make the up shift happen much quicker.

By giving accelerator input, you take control over from the CC and thereby, you can accelerate gradually. Once past the gradient, leave the accelerator and control goes back to the CC unit.

Originally Posted by procrj

Foot on A pedal would take you out of CC mode and hence the AT might not necessarily upshift. But I do see your point, if the AT senses higher load, then it could up shift and end up revving the engine. This seems like a catch 22, the AT will downshift and rev the engine, irrespective of CC being engaged.

AT shouldn't downshift unless you punch the pedal or the car's speed is fairly low. Feathering the accelerator should allow to continue in the same gear, IMO.

[audioholic]

Originally Posted by ashis89

By giving accelerator input, you take control over from the CC and thereby, you can accelerate gradually. Once past the gradient, leave the accelerator and control goes back to the CC unit.

I dont think thats how the cruise control works in any car. You can only add accelerator input beyond what is commanded by the CC to throttle. So if the CC in your car is accelerating the vehicle and you press the accelerator further, it would only increase the acceleration and not cut off CC. Hence if the throttle demand triggers a downshift in the transmission, the only way you can avoid it is by cancelling the cruise control, accelerating manually and resuming CC later. Haven't driven a car so far where this is different.

Basically when you press accelerator with CC engaged, it enters into a passive mode where CC will command throttle only until set speed is reached. After that the driver can accelerate at their pace by pressing accelerator. But below set speed, the CC is still going to accelerate at its mapped pace. You can only add to that.

[ashis89]

Originally Posted by audioholic

I dont think thats how the cruise control works in any car. You can only add accelerator input beyond what is commanded by the CC to throttle. So if the CC in your car is accelerating the vehicle and you press the accelerator further, it would only increase the acceleration and not cut off CC. Hence if the throttle demand triggers a downshift in the transmission, the only way you can avoid it is by cancelling the cruise control, accelerating manually and resuming CC later. Haven't driven a car so far where this is different.

Basically when you press accelerator with CC engaged, it enters into a passive mode where CC will command throttle only until set speed is reached. After that the driver can accelerate at their pace by pressing accelerator. But below set speed, the CC is still going to accelerate at its mapped pace. You can only add to that.

Consider my CC is set at 100kmph and I am in 6th gear. When I slow down to 90 and then Resume, CC takes 2 seconds to quickly get back to 100.

On the other hand, I can take 5 seconds to gradually reach 100 and then click resume.

In the second situation, I am locked at 100kmph and approaching a gradient. The CC will accelerate when speed drops below the threshold, say 98kmph. If I start giving accelerator input gradually before gradient starts and yet maintain the threshold, the fueling won't be as aggressive as the CC.

This has been my observation on my MT car and driving through the crests and troughs of the Hyderabad ORR.

[procrj]

Originally Posted by ashis89

If I start giving accelerator input gradually before gradient starts and yet maintain the threshold, the fueling won't be as aggressive as the CC.

Exactly what I do when I am driving with CC, and in my case I can clearly see when the power if being delivered from the engine vs ISG and also the magnitude of throttle input based on the green/blue indicators. I usually throttle gently in advance when I can see a gradient approaching VS CC throttling hard once the speed drops below set levels.

[DeepG]

Originally Posted by Leoshashi

I'd recommend getting an extra sensor and install it in your spare tyre. That's what I've done and in case you rotate or change wheels, you just need to initiate the re-learning procedure and you are done.

Thank you Shashi Ji, will try and procure one additional sensor for the spare. Unfortunately, delivery of my car is delayed as the dealer is not able register the car under BH series though I am providing him all the details available.

Originally Posted by Leoshashi

Tyre change after delivery-I'll wholeheartedly support it. Go with 195/65R15s they do make a good difference to the ride quality of the MPV compared to stock size.

If fresh tyres are available in Michelin, then it makes a bit of sense to opt for them at those prices(they are charging quite a premium). Else go with Continental UC6 in 195/65R15 size. They are as good as Michelins as per feedback of owners.

Fresh tyres of Michelin are not available in size 195/65R15 but are available in 185/65R15 in XM2 series. Apparently, Continental 195/65R15 are also short of supply in Mumbai. I will try and speak with more dealers of Michelin and Continental. As of now, I have set the following preference Michelin P4ST 195/65R15>Michelin XM2 195/65R15>Continental 195/65R15>Michelin 185/65R15>Continental 185/65R15. I hope this should be fine. My major concern is the tyre noise.

Originally Posted by Leoshashi

This is the way I've done it, and am more than happy with it.

Few members have screwed it in the plastic cover of that member, but do note that the engine guard will have to be periodically removed for jobs like coolant change etc. For the first time, threads made in plastic will hold nicely. But it won't last the distance if it's opened couple of times or more.

Recently during ISG change, the other workshop could easily remove and refit the guard and never did they realise that anything was a jugaad here.

Thank you for the details. I will now try and find out a good FNG around Prabhadevi/Dadar area.

Originally Posted by Leoshashi

For your requirement, go with the good old Wax. Invest in a good durable wax like Collinite 845 and apply every 2 months or so(DIY will be best) and your car will have a sufficient protection from the elements. Also strongly recommend getting underbody coating done now, when the car is new.

My XL6 is Ceramic coated(Carpro), and I sometimes feel the Wax was a better bet at protection. Ceramic Coating gives tremendous shine, but I found the protection part a bit underwhelming.

Honestly, I do not think I have such patience to carry out the detailing of the car. Also, finding a dust-free area for this is a challenge. The cost of Collinite 845 Wax on Amazon is around 6500/-, I may also need good soap bar and polish to carry out the complete waxing. Will go through the Collinite Wax thread in the forum and then decide if it is doable for me. Otherwise may opt for Ceramic coating from Max shine at Thane for 30K.

Originally Posted by Leoshashi

Also, since your car will be parked out in the open, get it's air vents properly secured like this since your car may face rodents attack. Also get the cowl cleaned every year since it is a common rusting spot for cars parked near sea shore. The area gets dirty very easily, and holds moisture. For cars parked near shore, it's moisture plus salt which accelerates the rusting.

Already advised the dealer to apply the anti-rust underbody coating before delivery. Since my earlier car did suffer from rusting, I am very cautious of the rusting and will try and do whatever I can to avoid rusting and rodent attacks. Your idea to avoid rodents is brillient. I will srely try to emulate that.

Originally Posted by Leoshashi

The part priced less than 4k is MGA and of supposedly inferior quality than the one priced 6k(comes OE in Alpha). In MGA camera, there have been a lot of complaints (Brique - My Auburn Red Maruti-Suzuki XL6 (Alpha MT)) and replacements.

Part number of MGA Camera is 990J0M72S21-020 and costs Rs. 3720.

Part Number of Alpha's Camera is 39970M72R00 and costs Rs. 6587. Ask dealer to show what they are installing with proper packaging. If its MGA, ask them to order Alpha's camera or you may order from any MGP store/MASS and get it installed later.

This is quite surprising as the Nexa dealers are selling the 4K camera quoting that it is the same camera being used in Alpha variant.

[Leoshashi]

Originally Posted by Spals

I have finally got the delivery of my XL6 Zeta AT Auburn Red. I have used it for about a couple of months now and the following are my impressions.

Congratulations on your new XL6, wishing you lots of happy miles with the car.

Originally Posted by DeepG

Fresh tyres of Michelin are not available in size 195/65R15 but are available in 185/65R15 in XM2 series. Apparently, Continental 195/65R15 are also short of supply in Mumbai. I will try and speak with more dealers of Michelin and Continental. As of now, I have set the following preference Michelin P4ST 195/65R15>Michelin XM2 195/65R15>Continental 195/65R15>Michelin 185/65R15>Continental 185/65R15. I hope this should be fine. My major concern is the tyre noise.

Yes your priority is correct.

Honestly, I do not think I have such patience to carry out the detailing of the car. Also, finding a dust-free area for this is a challenge. The cost of Collinite 845 Wax on Amazon is around 6500/-, I may also need good soap bar and polish to carry out the complete waxing. Will go through the Collinite Wax thread in the forum and then decide if it is doable for me. Otherwise may opt for Ceramic coating from Max shine at Thane for 30K.

You may buy C845 from Greenzcarcare. They are a reputed detailing group.

I still somehow feel, Ceramic will be a waste for your car. You need protection, plus the exposure to elements won't do any good to your car and the coat itself. Ceramic still needs good upkeep and regular top-up visits if you want the car looking like new.

If you don't have time for regular DIY detailing, take it to some detailer regularly and get it waxed.

This is quite surprising as the Nexa dealers are selling the 4K camera quoting that it is the same camera being used in Alpha variant.

They'll sell anything they wish, as long as customers aren't specific. Both cameras look identical, so people think they are same.

Regards,
Shashi

[audioholic]

Originally Posted by ashis89

In the second situation, I am locked at 100kmph and approaching a gradient. The CC will accelerate when speed drops below the threshold, say 98kmph. If I start giving accelerator input gradually before gradient starts and yet maintain the threshold, the fueling won't be as aggressive as the CC.

This has been my observation on my MT car and driving through the crests and troughs of the Hyderabad ORR.

This should be a mental observation that the acceleration is slower. Like I explained earlier, if you expect to gain full control of the accelerator when cruise control is active, then that is not possible due to the way these systems are modeled. If the transfer of control happens between the driver input and CC, it will lead to uncomfortable jerks since the transfer is not allowed to be damped by regulations. Hence I always maintained that you can only add throttle input by pressing accelerator and cannot reduce acceleration by pressing the pedal to any extent as light as possible. The other reason you feel so is that the closer the vehicle speed is to the set speed, the lesser will be the acceleration requested by the cruise control obviously, and hence it gives you this feeling. Probably you should try resuming from 50-80 or even higher and see if you can control the acceleration even when it is the CC that is accelerating.

[Spals]

Originally Posted by procrj

Exactly what I do when I am driving with CC, and in my case I can clearly see when the power if being delivered from the engine vs ISG and also the magnitude of throttle input based on the green/blue indicators. I usually throttle gently in advance when I can see a gradient approaching VS CC throttling hard once the speed drops below set levels.

I agree with this input. I have tried two ways out of this and both seem to work.

1. Feather the throttle before the gradient starts, if you take the speed too much above the Set CC speed it may disengage (the speed blinks after giving throttle, so I am guessing the CC disengages after some time or speed limit over set speed).

2. Increase the set speed by a couple of kmph before gradient and then slowly start reducing the set speed just before hitting the gradient (when cruising at 100, i take it to 102 when i see the gradient and take it to 98 on the gradient and go back to 100 after gradient).


The problem is when you also need to steer due to traffic when you hit the gradient, this is when the sudden down shift upsets you, I had a couple of such cases in my drive back from Hyderabad.

Interestingly, if the speed is closer to 120 kmph the engine is in a sweet spot already (3k rpm) and doesn't down shift. I experienced this once so need to confirm.

Regards,
Spals

[Leoshashi]

Ceramic Coat pays off: While I was away, my XL6 was parked at my office parking for 2 weeks. Generally it is a safe parking, but this time they did some kind of white wash/paint on walls and the XL6 got lots of overspray on the left side.

I was a bit worried, because by the time I saw it, the paint had hardened quite a bit. Didn't want to take it to some detailing store because they didn't seem confident, and thus didn't want them to experiment on it. So washed the car at home and all the paint spots came off cleanly, as if they had never bonded to the paint. However the ones on cladding and glass where ceramic wasn't there, I had to resort to some IPA and elbow grease.

A narrow escape!

Regards,
Shashi

[Leoshashi]

Finally, the much awaited post on Sound Insulation of my XL6. This post got delayed due to multiple reasons. Firstly my Phone got damaged and barely managed to recover the pics. Secondly, it was done in two stages. Stage I involved insulating the Doors, A Pillars and Roof. This was done last year, in August 2020 I guess. Stage II took care of Floor and Rear Quarter panels which was done in October 2021. Thus I'll be posting two back to back posts, one for each stage.

Stage I: Insulating the doors and roof.

Objectives and Problem areas:
-The Damping part will arrest the vibrations of panels, plus help in preventing dings which Maruti cars are infamous for since they provide mechanical rigidity to the panels from behind. This is why it was in first priority.
-Arresting vibrations at high volumes even with stock speakers.
-The irritating Tabla on roof during rains.

Process: Now this wasn't just going to be a mindless application of damping sheets and feeling smug about it. I also had to ensure proper waterproofing and making sure the damping sheets or insulation stuff doesn't come in contact/hold water at any location. Also, use of different materials at different places ensured optimum absorbtion of frequencies/noise/rattles. A friend who is a NVH Simulation engineer with a leading OEM was my guide, and anything done was after detailed discussion with him.

Materials used for Insulation:

1. Alubutyl Sheets(S1): 1.8mm, Vibrofiltr Brand. I am a fan of STP and CTK brands, but this first stage was done during lockdown last year, so those brands weren't available. Vibrofiltr is also quite reputed, so opted for this. A pack was ordered which came with 15 sheets.

2. Closed Cell foam loaded Alubutyl Sheets(S2): This provides weight of Alubutyl, plus has a closed cell dense foam layering on top, for excellent noise absorption. iCopper was a brand available on Amazon, ordered a pack of 5 sheets.

3. Dr. Artex Lace(S3): This is a sound absorbing open cell foam, which can be easily compressed and being flexible, can be used on any type of contoured surface. Ordered 10 Sheets.

4. Dr. Artex Baffle Plus(S4): While this is a good sound insulator, it excels in heat insulation too. Ordered 4 Sheets.

5. A friend who owns a 3M store, sent in a kit of 3M's damping kit, from which I used only the stiffener(S5). This is an excellent option if one needs only panel stiffness with minimal weight addition. Thanks mate!

Chaps Involved: My trusted mechanic Arjun and yours truly. I gave the ideas, while he simply followed them to the T. I don't trust any random chap for these things. Thus it had to be Arjun, plus the job was leisurely done at my place since I have enough space for dismantling the car and tools.

Time taken: We used to work from 7pm to 11pm after our work hours, straight for 5 days. Basically 1 panel was done per day. Since we worked till so late in the night, I ensured Arjun got his dinner at my place, so that he doesn't have to worry about cooking after a long day.

Tackling the doors: We divide the door into three parts. 1. Inner part of outer skin. 2. Outer part of Inner skin 3. Door pad

1. Inner part of Outer skin:

-We first cleaned the door's inner section with IPA to remove any dust and wax/oil.

-Pasted the 3M stiffeners(S5) at regular intervals.

https://youtu.be/thu7H3AakMQ

-Pasted strips of Alubutyl Sheet S1, ensuring zero overlap or pocket formation where water can sit. Do note that water flows from inside, so there shouldn't be any hindrance to that movement. This was rolled down aggressively with a roller to ensure maximum adhesion.

https://youtu.be/3sBcjr7rlek

-Sprayed Hinge Wax all around the lip of these sheets. This makes the surroundings water proof, once the wax solidifies. This becomes equal to the hot wax which is applied from factory.

https://youtu.be/Ad4F-JI7VIw

2. Outer Part of Inner Skin:

-Once the harness, nuts and bolts were removed, the panel received a wipedown with IPA to remove any oil/dirt/wax.

-Foam Loaded iCopper Alubutyl Sheets were then used to seal off the cavity. This served 3 uses, first made a enclosure for speakers, increased rigidity of this skin and the closed cell foam ensured proper blocking of noise frequencies too. Also closed cell foam is used here because this area may come in contact with water/moisture, the closed cell structure ensures water isn't absorbed into this material. This sheet is quite thick at 2mm, but still was diligently pressed with the roller. For difficult contours, rear part of screwdriver is used to press the adhesive in.

Care was taken to ensure that this sheet work is done within the adhesive limit of OE vapour barrier. The plastic sheet is needed to ensure water/humidity doesn't reach the door pad which houses electronics.

-Vapour barrier was put back, and adhesive was rolled.

3. Door pad:

-I took this opportunity to install MGA's interior styling kit on the PW console.

-The doorpad was wiped down with IPA.

-Alubutyl sheet S1 was selectively pasted over all the flat areas which were susceptible to flexing.

-Dr. Artex Lace(S3) was then pasted over the Alubutyl and this provides excellent sound insulation. We tried to cover edge to edge to eliminate all noises. This also eliminates any kind of rattles which may come up in later years, quite common in Marutis.

-I also ensured no old Clip is reused, and I also switched to foam laden clips used in Kizashi which eliminates clip related noise. Part number: 09409-10318. New Clips fit tight and give factory finish. Difference between Clips of normal marutis and Premium imports like Kizashi:

[Leoshashi]

Doors and Roof Insulation, Part 2:

Boot Door: The internals were too complex, plus with plethora of moving items, I decided to paste only some Alubutyl Sheets(S1), and some silencer sheets used by MSIL, made of industrial waste. Also on top part of pad where it makes contact with metal, Maruti had put some foam pads. I used number plate cushion at 2 more places where pad may touch metal and make sound.

Again, no old clips were reused, and all clips were replaced with those of Kizashi.

Roof: This is one aspect I hate in these cars with long roofs. The panel feels hollow and makes a racket whenever it rained hard, the echo being worse than my 22 year old Maruti 800! Special thanks to D-BHPian ParagSachania who cleared all my doubts regarding roof liner removal, and guided me once quickly over call when we got stuck.

In short, to remove the liner, we need to remove all grab handles, loosen A, B, C and D pillar trims, open roof console with lights, sun visors, IRVM, rear AC blower panel, and door opening weather strips. Easier said than done! Arjun is a skilled worker so we somehow managed to do it all.

The roof liner is huge, and taking it out is a task in itself.

Removing the essentials before roof liner drops:

Name sake insulation:

Time for some rest:

I meanwhile wipe internal of roof panel with IPA:

Huge Liner:

Rear AC Assembly:

Beating the heat with this arrangement:

We first pasted Alubutyl sheet(S1) over the entire sheet metal, and topped it off with Dr Artex Baffle Plus(S4) which is an excellent sound and heat insulator.

Took this opportunity to put some cut pieces of sound insulator(S3) on the A pillar trim. This will arrest any future rattles which may come from here.

After this DIY, got the roof liner thoroughly cleaned at 3M Ranchi

Hood: We had some left cut pieces, so instead of throwing them, I pasted them under the insulation panel of hood. First had to cut shapes of the exposed sheet metal, and then cut Alubutyl Sheet S1 as per those shapes.

[Leoshashi]

Miscellaneous points regarding Stage 1:

-Was done more than a year ago, so I've got time to know all positives and negatives. Thankfully, no negatives have surfaced yet! I had opened the doorpad once to check state of internals, and it was perfect. Also never faced any kind of downside living with this setup. No rattle or smell which is usually associated with cheap damping sheets.

-The doors close with a nice thud now.

-External noise with windows closed is completely gone, love how everything outside feels muted now. Horns are audible, and that's it! Even cars costing thrice as much feel lacking in this department now. Have turned XL6's weakness into it's strong point. A new Ertiga/XL6 or even my Crysta feels so basic now in terms of NVH.

-The best investment till now is damping of the roof. The only sound which comes now is that of water droplets hitting the glass. Everything else is muted.

-There were some issues with gaps of interior trims, which were perfected in due course. I had taken pics of all gaps before dismantling the car for comparison.

-Source of sheets:

Vibrofiltr Alubutyl Sheets S1: Anurag Choudhary 88820 38888

Alternate Option: STP/CTK sheets from AudioConcepts, Amazon.

Dr Artex Sheets S3 and S4: Got them from Singapore, since those sheets are too expensive in India and I'm not too sure about it's authenticity as well. Audioconcepts on Amazon have started stocking some Artex products, so you may try your luck there.

iCopper S2: Link

-Also took this opportunity to get rid of stock speakers at a good value, and chose JBL Coaxials from MGA. I plan to get a proper audio setup done later when I visit Delhi or Bangalore, hence didn't spend too much on something unknown. The JBLs are nothing great, but much better than the stock speakers.

-Roof damping while immensely desirable, isn't easy at all. Removal of roof liner and putting it back perfectly is too hard IMO(not everyone is skilled like ParagSachania)

-I take care that the car washing fraternity don't spray water along the door edges, like they do after opening the doors. This is a standard practice for me anyways since I like to clean the dirty door edges and sills myself with Steam or Exterior detailer once a while.

-Cost: For doors and roof alone, I had spent somewhere close to Rs. 30k in procuring sheets, consumables like new SGP clips, wax, IPA, Arjun's Labour etc.

-Weight added per door is roughly 3kgs, according to the number of sheets used. The entire roof took 4kg worth of sheets.

-Stage 2 of insulation for floors and quarter panel has been done during Dussehra Holidays, and I'll post a detailed report on it within the next few days. A teaser:

Feel free to ask any questions.

Regards,
Shashi