[rbp]

A small correction, just rechecked with bro

Q5 2.0 - 59 lakhs but he was offering it at 55 lakhs

Q5 3.0 6 cylinder 70 lakhs

[Vid6639]

Except for the Q7 none of the other Audi SUV's like Q3 and Q5 have that imposing presence.

The Merc ML really looks and feels the part. The ML 250 CDI looks to be a much better proposition considering that you don't lose a lot in terms of outright performance as well as in features. On the contrary, the 250CDI without the airmatic will prove better on reliable as the airmatic is one of the biggest issues on indian roads.

My choice is ML 250 CDI. The Q5 is little lower in comparison.

[rbp]

We had been to the sundaram motors today to decide between the ML250 and ML350. I am listing out some key differences

1) The most important and easily noticeable is the engine NVH, V4 vs V6, there is just no comparision the 350 wins this one easily. The idle sound and on revving on the 350 is so petrol like.

2) The 250 comes with Artificial Leather where as the 350 with genuine leather.

3) On the 350 even the passenger seat is electronically adjustable and can store positions in memory and also the head rests are electronically adjustable, whereas these aren't available in the 250.

4) The 350 has reverse camera whereas the 250 does not. The display on the 350 too is a bigger one when compared to the 250.

5) The 350 has 19 inch wheels to the 18 inchers on the 250.

6) Finally the airmatic on the 350.

These are the things that immediately come to my mind. Not sure if all these are worth the extra 13 lakhs. The 350 is exactly 72.9 Lakhs on road, but we were very impressed with the V6 refinement.

The sales representative Santosh Kumar kept on telling us that he has a surprise for all of us from the beginning and he finally lead us to a car parked in the corner and what a shocker, it was the Mercedes C63 AMG, he said he will take us for a test drive in it.

The C63 as most here know has a 6.2 litre V8 engine. 457 bhp and 600 NM of torque. We drove the saloon version, he first drove it and I was in the passenger seat and both my elder bro's were at the back seat, he took it out and since today was a holiday the roads were empty and he floored it, boy oh boy, I have never been scared till date in a car and the front of the car was taking off and my legs instinctively, since being in the front seat were searching for the brakes. He braked and all of us were . Later he stopped the car and asked me to drive it, I was so scared of it, I said no way am I driving this beast, he insisted and finally I agreed, the front seats are very well sculpted and hug the driver nicely. I started moving the car and just touched the brakes as I normally do, what a shocker I felt as if I hit a wall, the brakes are razor sharp. The steering too felt awesome nice and chunky, it weighted well and was very sharp. I took a curve at a decent speed and the car took that curve so easily, the exhaust sound of the V8 is something to be heard, I also liked the way the engine blipped. I drove it for a few kilometers and felt comfortable in the car in a few kms, I liked the ride quality too did not feel harsh at all. The car is very well mannered and can easily be ridden in the traffic but I feel it belongs to the highways and twisties where you can explore it.

I have to once again thank Santosh Kumar, he is very passionate about cars and bikes and is very very knowledgeable, if any one interested in a Merc you should get in touch with him.

We will most probably go for the ML350 and will decide by the end of this week.

[n:CorE]

Originally Posted by rbp

We had been to the sundaram motors today to decide between the ML250 and ML350. I am listing out some key differences

1) The most important and easily noticeable is the engine NVH, V4 vs V6, there is just no comparision the 350 wins this one easily. The idle sound and on revving on the 350 is so petrol like.

2) The 250 comes with Artificial Leather where as the 350 with genuine leather.

3) On the 350 even the passenger seat is electronically adjustable and can store positions in memory and also the head rests are electronically adjustable, whereas these aren't available in the 250.

4) The 350 has reverse camera whereas the 250 does not. The display on the 350 too is a bigger one when compared to the 250.

5) The 350 has 19 inch wheels to the 18 inchers on the 250.

6) Finally the airmatic on the 350.

These are the things that immediately come to my mind. Not sure if all these are worth the extra 13 lakhs. The 350 is exactly 72.9 Lakhs on road, but we were very impressed with the V6 refinement.

The sales representative Santosh Kumar kept on telling us that he has a surprise for all of us from the beginning and he finally lead us to a car parked in the corner and what a shocker, it was the Mercedes C63 AMG, he said he will take us for a test drive in it.

I'd like to correct you on your conception of V4 its actually an inline-four cylinder engine. The V denotes the arrangement of the cylinders in a 'V' shape. And the 2.2 twin-turbo in question is the same one used in the C250 & E250 CDI. If this engine has found place under the hood of such premium luxury saloons, I'm sure it shouldn't be a problem in a big SUV as far as NVH is concerned. Yes, its not as smooth as the V6 but I think its nothing that you cannot live without.

Secondly, as Vid6639 suggested, You're better off without the Airmatic, that has been prone to failure and problems in India since forever. Smaller rims mean fatter tyres and therefore a better ride, so the 18's too have an upside.

Reverse camera & passenger electronic seat with memory and leather seats is what you are going to miss out on but for 13 Lakhs more?

Anyway, its pure heart v/s mind now. The petrol-head inside me would suggest the 350 hands down. But the 'being practical' side would say 250.

If budget is not a contraint and your brother can stretch the budget easy, just go for the 350, you wont regret it. And as akshay also said, the 350 is also CKD now, you won't be paying higher registeration fees for it either.

Keep this thread posted with the final decision.

[rbp]

n:CorE :- Thanks for the V4 clarification. As of now I have been checking some ML350 ownership threads, I am not at all impressed by Merc's reliability record, I have been updating my bro on the same, let us see, what he has to say.

[Akshay1234]

Originally Posted by rbp

n:CorE :- Thanks for the V4 clarification. As of now I have been checking some ML350 ownership threads, I am not at all impressed by Merc's reliability record, I have been updating my bro on the same, let us see, what he has to say.

Do note the older ML was notoriously unreliable. Since then Merc has been changing for the better, so I wouldn't really go by those threads. The new ML is supposed to be a fair amount better. Also the newer Mercs nowadays seem to be getting more reliable but its the dealers who could mess up the experience.

[vikramvicky1984]

A small related query for a colleague:

How would you rate Montero against the ML250?

Prompt service and spares are an absolute must and I could not find much about the new Montero and service backup in Mumbai.

Usage: South Mumbai city roads mostly. No off roading at all. mostly chauffeur driven. Rarely driven beyond 100 kmph

Budget around 60 Lakhs

Current car: C230 2008 (unhappy with reliability and unreasonable service expenses)

Other cars in consideration apart from ML250 are RR Evoque and Jaguar XF diesel.
BMWs not considered (personal reasons). Prado is definitely over priced

@mods: Have got enough data about ML,Evoque and XF on the forum but not on the montero, hence the post

[rbp]

The TOI is running an ad which says Audi q7 at 67 lakhs OTR Delhi. Is this the ckd price or cbu? The q7 assembly started from the beginning of this month. The dealer in blr still says the price is 85 lakhs.

[agambhandari]

Originally Posted by rbp

The TOI is running an ad which says Audi q7 at 67 lakhs OTR Delhi. Is this the ckd price or cbu? The q7 assembly started from the beginning of this month. The dealer in blr still says the price is 85 lakhs.

Ex-showroom Prices for the CKD are almost the same as before.
The 67 OTR offer is because of a 10 lakh discount currently on the Q7.

I don't know about Bengaluru taxes. but some states charge more road tax for the CBU. so you get benefit by paying lesser road tax in case of CKD model.
For more info, i would advise you to call the Delhi Dealer to get more dirt on the topic.

[rbp]

We have also evaluated the Audi Q7, the dealer is ready to offer it at 77 lakhs, where as the offer for ML350 is for 73 lakhs.

Few things about the Audi.

1. Looks better than the ML.
   
2. 7 seater.
   
3. The interiors on the ML feel better than the Q7.
   
4. Refinement wise the ML is in a class of its own.
   
5. ML has more features when compared to the Q7.

Now we need to decide between the two by tomorrow, which one do you guys think should we go for. Money is not a problem over here, we are ready to pay more for the Q7, both are Germans and I know there is a red hot Q7 Mumbai ride thread going on . The attitude of Audi is definitely a concern. I wonder how Mercedes would have reacted in a similar scenario.

Guys please chip in.

Thanks

[StarrySky]

Originally Posted by rbp

Few things about the Audi.

1. Looks better than the ML.
2. 7 seater.
3. The interiors on the ML feel better than the Q7.
4. Refinement wise the ML is in a class of its own.
5. ML has more features when compared to the Q7.

Interiors, features and refinement better on the ML350 and it's cheaper too. I didn't see 7 seats being one of your original requirements. For me, it's a clear win for the ML.

Plus, purely IMHO, 3-pointed star is just a notch better than 4-rings when it comes to snob value

[karan561]

Originally Posted by rbp

We have also evaluated the Audi Q7, the dealer is ready to offer it at 77 lakhs, where as the offer for ML350 is for 73 lakhs.

Few things about the Audi.

1. Looks better than the ML.
   
2. 7 seater.
   
3. The interiors on the ML feel better than the Q7.
   
4. Refinement wise the ML is in a class of its own.
   
5. ML has more features when compared to the Q7.

Now we need to decide between the two by tomorrow, which one do you guys think should we go for. Money is not a problem over here, we are ready to pay more for the Q7, both are Germans and I know there is a red hot Q7 Mumbai ride thread going on . The attitude of Audi is definitely a concern. I wonder how Mercedes would have reacted in a similar scenario.

Guys please chip in.

Thanks

Buy the ML 350 as its the latest launch, also it should be a fresh change over the common/popular/celeb favorite Q7's running around the town

[TRANSAM]

The ML is the way to go, its newer-fresher as the Q7 has been around for long, your last few post seem inclined towards the ML, if the price is right and the car meets your requirements this should be your choice. IMO. Good Luck..do update us.

[imp!]

The 2014 Model year for Audi is going to be huge, they are going to be launching face lifts/redesigns of 7 models. The most pertinent to you is that an all new Q7/Q5 is going to be launched with the Q7 getting major body changes (it is going to lose 300-400 kgs, not insignificant by any means)

If you decide you prefer the Audi to the ML, then consider waiting for the new models to be launched. If you would like to replace the Fortuner sooner rather than later, I would buy the MB (although I am not a fan of Mercedes cars in general given their lackluster driving experience and high cost of ownership when compared to ze udder germanz).

I know you said that your brother isn't the biggest fan of the X3 styling, but the X3 30D remains the best bet for your listed choices/requirements. I do not know if he wishes to consider this option but, the Volvo XC 60/90 might very well be the ideal machine for him.

[rbp]

Originally Posted by StarrySky

[/list]Interiors, features and refinement better on the ML350 and it's cheaper too. I didn't see 7 seats being one of your original requirements. For me, it's a clear win for the ML.

Plus, purely IMHO, 3-pointed star is just a notch better than 4-rings when it comes to snob value

7 seater is just an added bonus, that is not a priority for us.

Originally Posted by imp!

The 2014 Model year for Audi is going to be huge, they are going to be launching face lifts/redesigns of 7 models. The most pertinent to you is that an all new Q7/Q5 is going to be launched with the Q7 getting major body changes (it is going to lose 300-400 kgs, not insignificant by any means)

If you decide you prefer the Audi to the ML, then consider waiting for the new models to be launched. If you would like to replace the Fortuner sooner rather than later, I would buy the MB (although I am not a fan of Mercedes cars in general given their lackluster driving experience and high cost of ownership when compared to ze udder germanz).

I know you said that your brother isn't the biggest fan of the X3 styling, but the X3 30D remains the best bet for your listed choices/requirements. I do not know if he wishes to consider this option but, the Volvo XC 60/90 might very well be the ideal machine for him.

The X3 styling is the biggest downer, as for Volvo they dont have a dealership in Bangalore.