Lancer Cedia on EVO engine?

devarshi84 · 22nd June 2006, 23:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by blueraven316

Well If it comes to an ECU remap, even an RS has lots of scope, it can go upto 235 Bhp easily, and that most of us know by now.
But yeah, because of it's less weight the Lancer with a modded ECU and Genuine 165 horses can maybe chew up a stock RS !

you cn actually get a stock 162hp engine which is a straight fit.

And I am talking about 2.4LTR Mivec Engine.

aZa · 22nd June 2006, 23:54

If only HM would have brought this 2.4L MIVEC engine as a ralliart option !!! uff !

theMAG · 23rd June 2006, 07:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by pandabear

read somewhere in BSMotoring, that the Cedia has an engine based on EVO architecture but is heavily detuned to achieve lower BHP. Is it possible to buy the Cedia and increase the performance / BHP, so that it can match the EVO? How is it possible to increase the BHP so much? Well, I undestand that some kits eg: TRIPHASE/Filters etc are available comtributing to a marginal increase, but how to increase the BHP say 3 times... Is it possible...

The ECU will be the key here. If the EVO ECU can be plonked into the Cedia,u should see atleast a 10-15% outright increase in performance from the same mechanicals. However as quoted elsewhere in this thread, the mechanical factors - compression ratio etc cannot be changed automatically on the stock engine

Sankar · 23rd June 2006, 13:21

Evo ECU would me mapped too diferently to work in the Cedia becoz Evo is a turbo engine, better than that would be to get the Cedia chip remapped.

chetanhanda · 24th June 2006, 07:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by theMAG

The ECU will be the key here. If the EVO ECU can be plonked into the Cedia,u should see atleast a 10-15% outright increase in performance from the same mechanicals. However as quoted elsewhere in this thread, the mechanical factors - compression ratio etc cannot be changed automatically on the stock engine

1st of all an EVO ECU is for a Turbo charged car, it can never be used with a normally aspirated engine, the entire Compression ratio, AF ratio is different. this is sufficient to rule out any further discussion that you can plonk in an ECU.
But even if u still do ...lets assume that even if it fits perfectly
What about air intake, camshafts,valve springs,valves,fuel pressure regulator, fuel pump,fuel injection rail,throttle body, plugs, exhaust system etc ? you need to take care of everything else also to get some noticeable difference.

Even if you plonk in all the above parts mentioned you will have to tune it extensively with a wideband AFR to make sure your ECU is burning your fuel correctly. also taking care that the uprated components are not damaging your piston,crank etc or you may have to upgrade them too.
Plz understand a ECU is not plug and play component across engines....think twice

Why do you think we have tuner companies like Vishnu, AEM,HKS,Greddy, Apexi, JUN,Mines etc etc ...becoz its not that simple to mess around with ECU , electronics of a car and get power..

devarshi84 · 24th June 2006, 07:23

Chetan, You are right. It takes Lots of expertise in preapring a cedia into an evo and also the money.

That's where The millions of dollars are spent by companies. But it's no tough job if done with dedication and right guidance.

the cedia in its current form with the right upgrades and an IC turbo should do around 160+ easily. And I am talking basic mods here.

2L8uLoose · 24th June 2006, 10:16

If anyone wants to know more of the 4G63 engine.. here's the link.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsubishi_4G6x_engine

chetanhanda · 24th June 2006, 23:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by devarshi84

Chetan, You are right. It takes Lots of expertise in preapring a cedia into an evo and also the money.

That's where The millions of dollars are spent by companies. But it's no tough job if done with dedication and right guidance.

the cedia in its current form with the right upgrades and an IC turbo should do around 160+ easily. And I am talking basic mods here.

Sure !! agreed .. it will definately require some expertise than just a plug and play and its not a tough job if u have the guys with the tools,experience,cash and time.. and just to reiterate .its definately not plug and play...

X-Machine · 25th June 2006, 19:02

The Cedia can be tuned upto 200+ bhp. Its very modifiable and if done it right, can smoke one of the best cars on roads. The engine has enough space for an 4g63 to be fitted. If the Lancer can run on the Evo block, so can this. It just needs a good technician at work to do the job right. Moreover, the 2ltr Mivec can also be pumped into the engine.

X

26th June 2006, 05:56

how much does the cedia retail for in bombay.

devarshi84 · 28th June 2006, 13:48

www.lancercedia.in

The price is the same all-around the country.

sujaylahiri · 26th November 2008, 09:50

The Cedia engine is 4G94. It doesn't have anything in common with the Evo 8/9, other than probably the cast iron block. Even the bore and stroke and very different.

The Cedia does have the same chassis blueprint as the Evo, but there's a lot of extra strut and sway bars on the Evo and the suspension is miles apart.

As far as the Cedia's potential goes, its key party piece is the cast iron block, because of which it can be designed to handle "some" boost, unlike stock aluminum blocks. The stock pistons and connecting rods can withstand up to 7 psi of boost, but I know some people who are running 17 psi after upgrading the pistons and the con rods.

You'll also need to get the turbo intake manifold if you're bolting a turbo, and the good thing is that the one from the 4G63 (SOHC) block fits.

However, keep in mind that the Cedia is SOHC and port injected and a lot of the commonly available Mitsubishi engines are DOHC and direct injected.

In the end, I think it's just easier to drop in the 4G64 block (2.4L) onto it, since it almost has the same mounting points and get can 160 bhp in stock form.

dinar · 26th November 2008, 10:21

The stock gear box of cedia can handle upto 250 BHPs, [info from one of the TOP teams in INRC] the engine block can handle the power too, the engine comes with so less power is mainly for the "Milage Kya hai market" and the poor fuel quality [read 87 octane] found in most of the places and price factor, that's the reason for the SOHC head.
With a good turbo on the cedia engine and a good Standalone, the power will go upto 210 bhp easily. can get more with some other mods.Cedias from team MRF do go upto 200bhps in NA form [All parts are from Rallyart], they have feastas giving out 160-190bhp [parts from cosworth]

sujaylahiri · 27th November 2008, 06:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by dinar

The stock gear box of cedia can handle upto 250 BHPs, [info from one of the TOP teams in INRC] the engine block can handle the power too, the engine comes with so less power is mainly for the "Milage Kya hai market" and the poor fuel quality [read 87 octane] found in most of the places and price factor, that's the reason for the SOHC head.
With a good turbo on the cedia engine and a good Standalone, the power will go upto 210 bhp easily. can get more with some other mods.Cedias from team MRF do go upto 200bhps in NA form [All parts are from Rallyart], they have feastas giving out 160-190bhp [parts from cosworth]

When it comes to racing teams, it's a whole different story. They have a lot of resources and manpower at their disposal, something which the average street tuner doesn't have.

While getting 200+ bhp is possible, reliability will be a big concern, and the engine will probably last only a couple of years if you're lucky.

I'd say running a medium sized turbocharger with upgraded engine internals and operating within "safe" limits, you're looking at 180-190 bhp at the most. After that, it's all trial and error.

Also, the 7th generation Lancers in North America (Cedia in India) are sold with the SOHC heads (I have the same one), and the DOHC heads are mostly for the MIVEC valvetrains, and hence are limited to JDM or Ralliart versions.

They only switched to DOHC heads all over the world for the 8th generation Lancer, and so far its looked quite promising.

I'd still say that the cheapest option to get more power would be either a bigger engine or even blueprinting the engine and running low to medium boost.

dinar · 27th November 2008, 09:54

I was talking about the engine choice for the Indian car, It is based on the the fact that mileage plays biggest role in engine [tune] for companies, the prototypes tested by HM for India had around 25 Bhps more than what the production version is tuned for, but fuel efficiency was not that good [according to most of the buying public] that's the reason for such a low power outputs.
By the way the cars tuned for MRF are NA and so high compression internals are used to get the power and yet they are quit reliable. And with a turbo build the stock internals will handle around 200 bhp reliably, and it will be cheaper than transplanting an old [used] JDm engine, If the turbochagering is done correctly and sensible outputs are targets than the it can be quit reliable, Upgrade the internal and the engine can be taken to higher state of tune.
Defiantly the engine won't last for like 200,000 km with mods, but even the evo engine don't last that long.But the it will be cheaper than 3-4 lac for the [evo- or MIVEC]engine conversion and the rebuilding of the same.

22nd June 2006, 23:54	#17
aZa Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Noida / Delhi Posts: 1,595 Thanked: 21 Times View My Garage	If only HM would have brought this 2.4L MIVEC engine as a ralliart option !!! uff !
	() Thanks

23rd June 2006, 13:21	#19
Sankar Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2005 Location: Location Posts: 5,778 Thanked: 9,212 Times	Evo ECU would me mapped too diferently to work in the Cedia becoz Evo is a turbo engine, better than that would be to get the Cedia chip remapped.
	() Thanks

24th June 2006, 07:23	#21
devarshi84 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Ahmedabad - Tor Posts: 4,024 Thanked: 212 Times View My Garage	Chetan, You are right. It takes Lots of expertise in preapring a cedia into an evo and also the money. That's where The millions of dollars are spent by companies. But it's no tough job if done with dedication and right guidance. the cedia in its current form with the right upgrades and an IC turbo should do around 160+ easily. And I am talking basic mods here.
	() Thanks

24th June 2006, 10:16	#22
2L8uLoose BANNED Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Bombay Posts: 628 Thanked: 7 Times View My Garage	If anyone wants to know more of the 4G63 engine.. here's the link. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsubishi_4G6x_engine Last edited by 2L8uLoose : 24th June 2006 at 10:18.
	() Thanks

25th June 2006, 19:02	#24
X-Machine Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Mumbai/Tokyo Posts: 1,475 Thanked: 29 Times	The Cedia can be tuned upto 200+ bhp. Its very modifiable and if done it right, can smoke one of the best cars on roads. The engine has enough space for an 4g63 to be fitted. If the Lancer can run on the Evo block, so can this. It just needs a good technician at work to do the job right. Moreover, the 2ltr Mivec can also be pumped into the engine. X
	() Thanks

26th June 2006, 05:56	#25
lancer_mania Posts: n/a	how much does the cedia retail for in bombay.
	() Thanks

28th June 2006, 13:48	#26
devarshi84 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Ahmedabad - Tor Posts: 4,024 Thanked: 212 Times View My Garage	www.lancercedia.in The price is the same all-around the country.
	() Thanks

26th November 2008, 09:50	#27
sujaylahiri BHPian Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: North America Posts: 960 Thanked: 6 Times View My Garage	The Cedia engine is 4G94. It doesn't have anything in common with the Evo 8/9, other than probably the cast iron block. Even the bore and stroke and very different. The Cedia does have the same chassis blueprint as the Evo, but there's a lot of extra strut and sway bars on the Evo and the suspension is miles apart. As far as the Cedia's potential goes, its key party piece is the cast iron block, because of which it can be designed to handle "some" boost, unlike stock aluminum blocks. The stock pistons and connecting rods can withstand up to 7 psi of boost, but I know some people who are running 17 psi after upgrading the pistons and the con rods. You'll also need to get the turbo intake manifold if you're bolting a turbo, and the good thing is that the one from the 4G63 (SOHC) block fits. However, keep in mind that the Cedia is SOHC and port injected and a lot of the commonly available Mitsubishi engines are DOHC and direct injected. In the end, I think it's just easier to drop in the 4G64 block (2.4L) onto it, since it almost has the same mounting points and get can 160 bhp in stock form.
	() Thanks

26th November 2008, 10:21	#28
dinar Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: goa Posts: 1,066 Thanked: 57 Times	The stock gear box of cedia can handle upto 250 BHPs, [info from one of the TOP teams in INRC] the engine block can handle the power too, the engine comes with so less power is mainly for the "Milage Kya hai market" and the poor fuel quality [read 87 octane] found in most of the places and price factor, that's the reason for the SOHC head. With a good turbo on the cedia engine and a good Standalone, the power will go upto 210 bhp easily. can get more with some other mods.Cedias from team MRF do go upto 200bhps in NA form [All parts are from Rallyart], they have feastas giving out 160-190bhp [parts from cosworth]
	() Thanks

27th November 2008, 09:54	#30
dinar Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: goa Posts: 1,066 Thanked: 57 Times	I was talking about the engine choice for the Indian car, It is based on the the fact that mileage plays biggest role in engine [tune] for companies, the prototypes tested by HM for India had around 25 Bhps more than what the production version is tuned for, but fuel efficiency was not that good [according to most of the buying public] that's the reason for such a low power outputs. By the way the cars tuned for MRF are NA and so high compression internals are used to get the power and yet they are quit reliable. And with a turbo build the stock internals will handle around 200 bhp reliably, and it will be cheaper than transplanting an old [used] JDm engine, If the turbochagering is done correctly and sensible outputs are targets than the it can be quit reliable, Upgrade the internal and the engine can be taken to higher state of tune. Defiantly the engine won't last for like 200,000 km with mods, but even the evo engine don't last that long.But the it will be cheaper than 3-4 lac for the [evo- or MIVEC]engine conversion and the rebuilding of the same.
	() Thanks