[thoma]

May be I should not have checked the effectiveness of cleaning without shampooing, but here are the results of a pressure wash with the K3.500, after 3 weeks of muck on the Vento. I even tried the dirt blaster lance. I'll wait till I get hands on to a foam nozzle for the final results on how better the K3.500 can reduce manual labor. If there is not much improvement after shampooing, I do not think the extra bucks I spent for the Karcher is really worth it.

Originally Posted by abishek2222

There is that seller sahilgoel on eBay India you could try contacting him, I remember seeing his listing but can't find it now. Just search karcher on eBay and see the seller names.

And Mr Nirmal from ultimate detailers
Price seemed same when I checked

IIRC, Nirmal has started his own venture, Keystone. Anyway, I have inquired with him. Also with sahilgoel on eBay who seems to have only the 0.3L at present.

Can anyone suggest me a good foam solution in the meanwhile. Hyperwash seems bit expensive when it comes in large quantities. Anything else? How about the Karcher Detergent?

[shashank.nk]

Originally Posted by thoma

Can anyone suggest me a good foam solution in the meanwhile. Hyperwash seems bit expensive when it comes in large quantities. Anything else? How about the Karcher Detergent?

I've used the Karcher detergent that came with my 3.550 and I found it to be good. I then used Amway for sometime which was better. Planning to try hyper wash now. Its expensive upfront but the phenomenal dilution ratio will mean it will last very long.

Also I doubt if the .6L foam nozzle is available in India. Anyone here who bought it locally ?

[abishek2222]

Originally Posted by shashank.nk

Also I doubt if the .6L foam nozzle is available in India. Anyone here who bought it locally ?

It was definitely available listed on ebay india but it isn't now. am absolutely sure because i saw the listing which came up 2 weeks after i bought the foam attachment from nirmal.i was wondering to my self why i wasn't patient that day and waited for sometime instead of being impulsive.

[thoma]

Originally Posted by Parthasarathig

The following pictures show one and a half month old dirt on my car, all cleaned up with Hyperwash via karcher foam nozzle and vario lance shown in the picture. This was a complete touchless wash.

I have tried soaking my car with the ArmorAll Wash n Wax, but I expected more from a pressure washer. Not that the K3.500 is not good, it removes moss from pavements in seconds, but what exactly am I having advantage using a pressure washer over the normal tap water hose?





Analyzing what I do.

Step 1: Spray water all over the car. The pressure washer just saves few minutes over normal tap water. Comparing quantity of water used, I do not think the pressure washer save much over the other method. Of course, a pressure washer removes bigger debris before I apply cloth over the paint, but the finer dust particles (a layer of grime) do not get dislodged and that could still lead to fine scratches very much.

Step 2: Here is what I thought I could save some manual labor with a pressure washer. Using the normal bucket method, I rinse the car all over with a cloth dipped in shampoo. Even after using a pressure washer at step 1, I could not skip this step.

Step 3: Rinsing off the soap. Again, a pressure washer saves few minutes but I am of the strong opinion that normal tap water flow is more than necessary, comparing the amount of water and electricity consumed by a pressure washer.

Step 4: Wipe off. Same in both cases.

So all the pressure washer gurus, where exactly a pressure washer is practically advantageous over a normal wash? Or am I doing something wrong?

• Like using a milder shampoo? Which else I should use then?
• Or is it that a pressure washers do not remove the last film of grime if the car is dirty for a longer time?
• Do you all need/have to manually rinse the car at step 2?

After my first experience with a pressure washer, I should agree with the below as a final word on these machines:

Originally Posted by vaisakhr

You cannot remove all the dirt with the washer. You need to wash it with soap and a MF cloth. And you may need to use a tar remover to remove all the tar and stains.

[abishek2222]

Originally Posted by thoma

I have tried soaking my car with the ArmorAll Wash n Wax, but I expected more from a pressure washer.

Analyzing what I do.


Step 2: Here is what I thought I could save some manual labor with a pressure washer. Using the normal bucket method, I rinse the car all over with a cloth dipped in shampoo. Even after using a pressure washer at step 1, I could not skip this step.

Step 3: Rinsing off the soap. Again, a pressure washer saves few minutes but I am of the strong opinion that normal tap water flow is more than necessary, comparing the amount of water and electricity consumed by a pressure washer.

Your definitely wrong when you say that the pressure washer consumes more water than from the hose. In fact it consumes much much less. Suggest you just turn the power off next time it's connected and then press the spray gun to open position without turning jt on ,you can see exactly how much water is being used.

As for electricity yes for sure it consumes power.

Without any kind of manual touch its just not going to work. If ever there was a touch less wash for cars. Even if you go into a detailing center even with a high end pressure washer they still use hands.probably you where expecting something much more.

If you ask for my personal opinion I'd say it definitely makes washing my car easier , faster, less work.

[Parthasarathig]

Originally Posted by thoma

• Like using a milder shampoo? Which else I should use then?
• Or is it that a pressure washers do not remove the last film of grime if the car is dirty for a longer time?
• Do you all need/have to manually rinse the car at step 2?

After my first experience with a pressure washer, I should agree with the below as a final word on these machines:

I earlier had Formula One wash and wax and used to use that with the pressure washer. Hardly any difference. I now use Hyperwash or Megs NXT car wash whatever I have at hand. That does a pretty good job of removing all the dirt and grime.

After reading your posts, I asked a few friends as well on whose recommendation I bought my pressure washer, they never faced such a problem.

I usually follow these steps

1. rinse the car with water
2. foam the car with shampoo
3. wait a few minutes
4. for stubborn grime i agitate using a mitt
5. rinse off at high pressure

The car is usually clean after all these steps.

You dont even need a foam nozzle to create the foam. Dilute your shampoo 1:3 in a bottle, and then put the detergent inlet pipe into the bottle. Set the vario lance in mix mode and the shampoo will foam all over the car. It may not look like snow foam, but it works just the same.

For most loose grime pressure washer works just fine. For stubborn dirt and grime, you may need to agitate that bit with a mitt.

The reason I bought the washer was to ease up my car wash process as did most of the people here. After a few uses you will be able to fine tune your technique, so do not be disappointed yet. I also faced such problems earlier, but now Im able to get a nice clean car with just a pressure wash.

Also the washer gives you nice clean wheel wells

Hope this helps.

EDIT:-

I did realise now, that my car was already waxed and protected when I did that touchless wash. On unprotected cars, the grime will not go away easily. Foam helps, so does a wash mitt.

From the pics, the dirt looks almost embedded in the paint. Is your paint protected like waxed or sealant? Just curious to know.

[srishiva]

Maybe its the detergent that you use which makes the difference. Have used touchless washes and still use them in U.S. They clean your car from all the snow and muck very well.

[thoma]

Originally Posted by Parthasarathig

I earlier had Formula One wash and wax and used to use that with the pressure washer. Hardly any difference.

You mean the Formula One was not up to the task? Or did you mean that Formula One is similar to Hyperwash and Meg's? I didn't get the part 'Hardly any difference'.

put the detergent inlet pipe into the bottle.

I'm really afraid of using a non-Karcher recommended detergent in that way, because I guess the rubber seals inside are sensitive. Can it get dried up using strong detergents? I've seen your earlier post on the same. You have the same K3.500, without an integrated shampoo bottle, right?

The reason I bought the washer was to ease up my car wash process as did most of the people here. After a few uses you will be able to fine tune your technique, so do not be disappointed yet.

Also the washer gives you nice clean wheel wells

Comparing to tap water, yes, the only significant difference I felt is that the pressure washer gives a clean wheel wells. Yet, the under-body remains dirty. May be, as you said, I'll find out more on subsequent uses.

Is your paint protected like waxed or sealant? Just curious to know.

Mine is a 5 month old car and I have been using Eagle One nano wax liquid after every wash. But lately, the liquid has lost much of its viscosity than when brought new. And presently, the muck was almost a month old.

May be a combination of factors have gone wrong the first time. High expectations, mild detergent, a month old dirt, low wax protection.

How long does a coat of Collinite 845 last? If it does not seem economical, I am thinking of getting Meguiar's Hi-Tech Yellow Liquid wax and use it after every fortnightly wash. Any idea about Insta Finish Super Foam? Does Hyperwash come in smaller quantities? Else again, I am thinking of Meguiar's NXT Car Wash.

Originally Posted by abishek2222

Suggest you just turn the power off next time it's connected and then press the spray gun to open position without turning jt on ,you can see exactly how much water is being used.

I've tried so. It just spurts out a low stream. But I am sure more water will be taken in as the pump pressurizes water.

Even if you go into a detailing center even with a high end pressure washer they still use hands.probably you where expecting something much more.

True that I was expecting a touch-less wash. Why else I should spend such money and yet do all the manual labor? Machines are meant to minimize labor and not to keep them at the same level. If I was more aware of the abilities of a pressure washer, by seeing a similar one perform in person, I would not have gone for it. The only advantage I see from a pressure washer now (all I'm waiting for a final verdict is usage with a stronger detergent) is that the wheel wells remain clean.

Originally Posted by srishiva

Maybe its the detergent that you use which makes the difference. Have used touchless washes and still use them in U.S. They clean your car from all the snow and muck very well.

I'm also thinking so. Which detergent do you use for your touch-less wash?

[Parthasarathig]

Originally Posted by thoma

You mean the Formula One was not up to the task? Or did you mean that Formula One is similar to Hyperwash and Meg's? I didn't get the part 'Hardly any difference'.


I'm also thinking so. Which detergent do you use for your touch-less wash?

What I meant was formula one is not as good a shampoo as hyperwash is.
Even if you are not interested in buying hyperwash, you can very well try the sonax gloss shampoo concentrate.

We have the same machines. I used to use the shampoo from a bottle. I think you shouldnt worry about the Karcher rubber quality, because car shampoo is much more milder than some detergents which can be used with the machine for porch and patio cleaning. And most car shampoos are pH neutral.

See everytime you wax, you should clay the car before hand to remove the bonded contaminants, or else as time progresses, waxing will just trap the contaminants underneath it and also not protect the paint properly.

Collinite is one of the best waxes in terms of durability and performance. But you can try Megs yellow wax as well. It wont last long, but it will definitely give you protection.

You shouldnt have to wax your car every week. I wax and wait for 3 to 4 months at a stretch before waxing again. Although using a spray wax after every wash is ideal and advised, ive never felt the need to use spray waxes after every wash. In fact, i dont have any spray waxes with me. I do keep an eye on the beading and sheeting properties to see the performance of the current wax layer. Any deterioration is easily noticed, and I tend to re wax the car then.

And for a well protected car, a touchless wash would be enough to clean the entire car without a fuss.

About the underchassis, there are separate accessories for that, but I doubt if it can be used with our pressure washer. You can always get the underchassis cleaned at your FNG and just pay for the underchassis cleaning. Thats what I usually do.

[abishek2222]

Originally Posted by thoma

But I am sure more water will be taken in as the pump pressurizes water.

Pressure washers use less gallons of water per minute. The flow of water out of the typical garden hose faucet is 8 gallons per minute. When you use a standard spray gun, you can reduce the flow from 8 gallons per minute to about 4 gallons per minute.

http://www.hotsy.com/resources/savin...re-washer.aspx

Pressure washers concentrate water into an intense stream to remove dirt through the increased surface pressure rather than through water volume.

Read more: http://www.ehow.com/facts_5766389_pr...#ixzz2f6pKZO7o


SAVE WATER: Surprisingly a pressure washer uses much less water than other cleaning methods. For instance, the typical garden hose puts out between 6 to 10 GPM (gallons per minute). The typical karcher pressure washer uses between 2 to 5 GPM—a 50% to 70% savings in water usage.

http://www.karchercommercial.com/ChoosePressure.aspx



Cleaning results vary based on:

Detergent use
Distance from the surface you're cleaning
Water pressure
Spray fan angle


if i can make a suggestion, try to sell it off quickly to someone since it's relatively new since your not really happy with it and what if you spend even more money on the meguiars hyper wash and your still not satisfied.

[thoma]

Originally Posted by Parthasarathig

you can very well try the sonax gloss shampoo concentrate

Partha, thanks for all the answers.

Originally Posted by abishek2222

Pressure washers use less gallons of water per minute. The flow of water out of the typical garden hose faucet is 8 gallons per minute. When you use a standard spray gun, you can reduce the flow from 8 gallons per minute to about 4 gallons per minute.

What I was sure of was the output from my tap is less than what the Karcher specification of max 420 L/h (= 7 L/h). Thanks to your figures, I wanted to cross check whether I was correct. Checked my tap water to output 7.5 L/h without restricting the nozzle. When I clean the car I use my fingers to restrict the nozzle to build whatever little pressure it can. So there is not much of a difference directly. But the advantage for the pressure washer comes indirectly. It uses less time to clean and so the total water usage should be less than when using tap water.

But 4 gallons per minute come to ~15 L/min!

Yeah logically, selling is an option, but it feels so bad to have bought something to just sell it off. The real advantage of a pressure washer comes when there is heavy dirt. Big particles are easily removed, which cannot be done by tap water. So bigger scratches can be avoided. And, though newer vehicles sport plastic cladding for the wheel wells, it feels good to see a clean wheel well. The only grouse is that even a Skil could do the same job, maybe it is the longevity of a Karcher that makes it outstanding.

[BigBrad]

thoma, Even I'm surprised to see the results. I too was of the opinion that a pressure washer would remove almost all the dirt including the fine layer that tends to stick on. I came across this video on youtube. If you observe carefully, a layer of grime still remain in the doors. So, I guess unless we are dealing with such a high level of dirt(probably similar to the off road mud), a normal tap with sufficient flow would be fine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mv59CSXNGl4

Pressure washers abilities I guess lies in saving water and also in removing mud. Experts, correct me if I'm wrong.

Also, does the K.3500 suck water from a stagnant source?

[thoma]

Originally Posted by BigBrad

I came across this video on Youtube. If you observe carefully, a layer of grime still remain in the doors.

Also, does the K.3500 suck water from a stagnant source?

Can you tell me at what time of the video did you observe the grime? I couldn't find any.

Running water is not necessary. The K3.500 is all similar to the K3.550 except that the integrated detergent compartment is missing. Instead, they have provided a pull out hose with filter to put into any external detergent container.

[Thad E Ginathom]

This is my procedure:

1. Use pressure washer to remove all loose dirt and dust. Use low pressure and shallow angle: do not turn your pressure washer into a sand blaster!

2. Apply shampoo. I do not use the washer device for this, the low-end Bosch one is useless. I use a spray bottle with diluted detergent.

3. Wash car with sponge, or soft brush, or pressure-washer brush is good, as water supply helps to stop scratches. This is the stage that removes the surface grime.

4. Rinse with pressure washer. Dry with silicon blade and mf cloths. Now you will see your car sparkle! Especially if, unlike me, you go on to the waxing stage

I left out wheels, wheel bay, underside etc. Removal of caked on mud is another thing that the pressure washer can do better than anything else.

[Deep Blue]

Originally Posted by thoma

True that I was expecting a touch-less wash. Why else I should spend such money and yet do all the manual labor? Machines are meant to minimize labor and not to keep them at the same level. If I was more aware of the abilities of a pressure washer, by seeing a similar one perform in person, I would not have gone for it. The only advantage I see from a pressure washer now (all I'm waiting for a final verdict is usage with a stronger detergent) is that the wheel wells remain clean.
?

I too am left with the same feeling. I think it makes lot more sense to wash with tap or even a bucket on a weekly basis and give it too the neighbourhood garage for a pressure wash maybe once in 2 months.

I bought the Euroclean storm from Eureka Forbes because I was skeptical of the service for Bosch and Karcher in my small town. So I felt this Chinese assembled one from Eureka Forbes is not as good as the mighty Germans. But reading all these experiences here suggests otherwise.

There really is no alternative to the wash mitt for the dirt accumulated in rainy season. The only advantages with pressure washers seem to be less water used, quicker wash and of course clean wheel wells. But, the water saved is probably offset by the power consumed and earlier I have managed to clean our two hatchbacks with just two buckets of water.

To me, it does not give the value for the 10000 bucks I spent on it. My Figo costs about 300 to pressure wash and vacuum clean at the garage. That is about 33 washes for 10000Rs . Even if I give it once a month, I can go on for about 3 yrs