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Old 25th July 2020, 12:29   #16
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Default re: Feynlab - Ceramic coating done on my Kia Seltos

Not true. There is a specialty product called the Meguiar's White Wax (For white cars only). I get crazy shine with it. (What you get in India are dubious, try and get it from overseas)
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White color is the easiest to maintain but most difficult to get shine off it.
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Old 29th July 2020, 12:32   #17
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Default Re: Feynlab - Ceramic coating done on my Kia Seltos

Thread moved out from the Assembly Line. Thanks for sharing!
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Old 30th July 2020, 11:04   #18
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Default Re: Feynlab - Ceramic coating done on my Kia Seltos

Your car looks brilliant. Congratulations

Ceramic coatings provide a certain level of protection but for the price quoted by most detailers makes people shy away from the same. I too thought it was a gimmick like teflon and the costs did not justify the results. I can get a proper overcoat for the car at that price.

There are however a few players in the market who does provide quality ceramic coatings at significantly lower prices. A little bit of research would help saving significant costs. But ensure that you actually spend time doing that homework.

Two such examples are Wheeler Cleaners in Marathalli, Bangalore and NanoPro India in Delhi and this is through personal experience of self and friends.

Wheeler Cleaners did Ceramic Coating for a fellow Duster AWD owner and Bhpian for around 10k INR with 2 years warranty. This was a Pandemic Rate, and they were running heavy discounts. But their normal rates are also not as high as the market.

Nanopro has been used by me, bhpian JKDS, PredatorWheelz and a personal friend of mine. We all are pretty happy with the outcome. Prices were 14k for 3 years (includes touchups every year) and 17.5k for 5 years irrespective of the size of the car (discounted rates). JKDS, my friend and myself have the Duster AWD. Predator did it for his Safari and he was the first one who actually did it and gave a thumbs up after few weeks. We then went one day to actually check the setup to ensure they have a proper one to do ceramic coatings.

I got the coating done September last year and this is the shine after a normal shampoo wash yesterday after 10 months. No polish or wax was done.
Feynlab - Ceramic coating done on my Kia Seltos-whatsapp-image-20200730-10.43.29-am.jpeg

Last edited by Altocumulus : 30th July 2020 at 11:15.
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Old 30th July 2020, 12:35   #19
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Default Re: Feynlab - Ceramic coating done on my Kia Seltos

The car looks beautiful and a very well executed job! Congratulations for the car too!

However I have one submission here, Korean cars generally tend to have a very soft paint and yours was a new car with light swirl marks. It did not make sense for them to go for the Rupes Blue pad with a heavy cut compound.

Did you check the paint thickness before and after correction? It is quite possible they might have stripped away more paint than they actually needed to! The top 20-30% of the clear coat contains majority of the UV inhibitors that manufacturers add in the clear coat.

Your car would look this way with just a minor 2 step with medium cut compound and a finishing polish. It's quite possible only one step polishing would have brought perfection to the paint (depending on the product used) ! Quite strange for them to go after the paint so hard!

Last edited by akhil994 : 30th July 2020 at 12:50.
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Old 30th July 2020, 13:13   #20
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Default Re: Feynlab - Ceramic coating done on my Kia Seltos

Quote:
Originally Posted by Altocumulus View Post
Ceramic coatings provide a certain level of protection but for the price quoted by most detailers makes people shy away from the same. I too thought it was a gimmick like teflon and the costs did not justify the results. I can get a proper overcoat for the car at that price.
Thanks for that info about the Wheel Cleaners. Never heard about it.

Are they charging 10k for the entire vehicle inclusive of taxes, I mean ( interior upholstery + exterior ) along with coatings on glass,plastics, alloys and tyres ? if yes, i will personally visit and check.

Also have you checked the products they use? From what I have seen, the products cost itself will exceed 10k if it is a from a reputed brand.

Why I am asking this is because I got cheated once in a mall.
They said a ceramic coating would be done but in reality it was just a car dealing that was done on my old car sometime ago.
Of course, they did a good level of detailing. No regrets or comments on that and the polish they used did stay for a few days.

Nano pro is not in Bangalore and yes prices do vary across cities and also depends on the package chosen.

Last edited by Sheel : 30th July 2020 at 13:52. Reason: Please quote ONLY the relevant bits of a post. Quoting a full, long post inconveniences our mobile readers. Thanks!
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Old 30th July 2020, 14:02   #21
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Default Re: Feynlab - Ceramic coating done on my Kia Seltos

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Originally Posted by akhil994 View Post

However I have one submission here, Korean cars generally tend to have a very soft paint and yours was a new car with light swirl marks. It did not make sense for them to go for the Rupes Blue pad with a heavy cut compound.

Did you check the paint thickness before and after correction? It is quite possible they might have stripped away more paint than they actually needed to! The top 20-30% of the clear coat contains majority of the UV inhibitors that manufacturers add in the clear coat.

Your car would look this way with just a minor 2 step with medium cut compound and a finishing polish. It's quite possible only one step polishing would have brought perfection to the paint (depending on the product used) ! Quite strange for them to go after the paint so hard!
Any vehicle which has traveled from the factory to the dealer will have lot of dust and microscopic impurities accumulated on it. Also before delivery they would have washed it and waxed it or put some kind of a polish before delivery.

In addition to this, I had driven the vehicle on road for about 4-5 days.

All microscopic impurities,polishes etc will have to be removed along with swirl marks and surface has to be leveled. It may not be visible to the eye but they do become evident and etch out during the curing process. That is the reason why a heavy cut polishing compound is used initially. All of this has to be removed before the coating.

Also to be noted is, it is not a heavy cut rubbing compound, it is a polishing compound. So it is used to treat less severe defects.

They take care to not remove the clear coat. yes I did check the thickness and didn't find any variations.

The only case where they can just start off with finishing compounds is at the factory itself, even before it comes out.

Last edited by Amyth Prabhakar : 30th July 2020 at 14:04.
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Old 30th July 2020, 14:34   #22
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Default Re: Feynlab - Ceramic coating done on my Kia Seltos

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Originally Posted by Amyth Prabhakar View Post
Any vehicle which has traveled from the factory to the dealer will have lot of dust and microscopic impurities accumulated on it. Also before delivery they would have washed it and waxed it or put some kind of a polish before delivery.

In addition to this, I had driven the vehicle on road for about 4-5 days.

All microscopic impurities,polishes etc will have to be removed along with swirl marks and surface has to be leveled. It may not be visible to the eye but they do become evident and etch out during the curing process. That is the reason why a heavy cut polishing compound is used initially. All of this has to be removed before the coating.

Also to be noted is, it is not a heavy cut rubbing compound, it is a polishing compound. So it is used to treat less severe defects.

They take care to not remove the clear coat. yes I did check the thickness and didn't find any variations.

The only case where they can just start off with finishing compounds is at the factory itself, even before it comes out.
I would disagree with most of the points here , but don't want to take this thread off topic.

1. All polishes and compounds have a defined cutting ability, so for a polish to be a cutting compound, only needs extra abrasives. Saying that, the Rupes official website lists the Zephir Gloss Coarse compound as one which is used to correct "Severe" defects. Surely a new car, post 4-5 days of usage will not have severe defects?

2. Rupes Zephir Glass Coarse IS a cutting compound and not a polishing compound by any stretch of imagination. It is the compound in their lineup having the highest abrasives.

From the official communication - "Rupes Bigfoot Zephir Gloss Coarse Gel Polishing Compound is the most abrasive compound in the silicone free Rupes System. Formulated for high performance to achieve optimum results in little time with less compound consumption"

I understand how it can be misunderstood as Polishing compound, but the fact of the matter is that it is for Severe defects and pairing that with an equally abrasive Blue Rupes pad is literally burning through a lot of clear coat.

3. I see from your post the paint thickness to be 97 at some places, is that before or after all paint correction was done? In fact only a paint thickness reading taken before and after correction, from the same spot can actually confirm the amount of clear that has been stripped away. From the pads and compounds used, it is going to be wayyyy more than what was required , I am sure.

For a soft paint, sure it is easy to swirl up, but it is equally easy to remove those swirls as well. The technique of the people working matter as much as the products. With the right technique, a finishing polish with medium to light abrasives can make a car with soft paint like yours, totally swirl free.

Also , light claying would have rid of any microscopic impurities and dust ( if any remained post wash).

Last edited by akhil994 : 30th July 2020 at 15:02.
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Old 30th July 2020, 14:48   #23
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Default Re: Feynlab - Ceramic coating done on my Kia Seltos

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Originally Posted by akhil994 View Post
.
I see from your post the paint thickness to be 97 at some places, is that before or after all paint correction was done? In fact only a paint thickness reading taken before and after correction, from the same spot can actually confirm the amount of clear that has been stripped away. From the pads and compounds used, it is going to be wayyyy more than what was required , I am sure.
I have never gone near such detail shops, so i`m curious will the car detailer be looking at these things so closely like paint depth etc, The customer is looking for a mirror finish regardless and will ask him to go to town with the polisher anyways and flatten out the orange peel. Orange peel is standard with all brands as far as I know.
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Old 30th July 2020, 14:59   #24
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Default Re: Feynlab - Ceramic coating done on my Kia Seltos

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I have never gone near such detail shops, so i`m curious will the car detailer be looking at these things so closely like paint depth etc, The customer is looking for a mirror finish regardless and will ask him to go to town with the polisher anyways and flatten out the orange peel. Orange peel is standard with all brands as far as I know.
A good detailer who knows their stuff will always look at these things. Rather should always look at these things. The customer may not always be aware about this stuff and it is the job of the detailer to educate the customer.

There is a balance that every detailing job needs to strike, with the amount of clear you are comfortable in stripping away which would fix the swirl marks and the orange peel. And generally detailers do a test section on cars to test the pad and product combination that would best work for the cars paint (hard/soft) and the condition (minor/severe defects). There should be no One-Size-Fits-All approach here, since every car you get is so different. Without doing that and working based on just an SOP, it just doesn't make sense. I would have started with a finishing polish with a medium pad , if it didn't work , would've then moved to medium compound with medium cut pad, then heavy cut pad and final would have been the heavy combo. But that would only be after testing a panel and seeing the results

In this example, if say the clear reading of 97 as in the post is after detailing, that is actually so dangerous. Kia cars have readings of about 140 microns on average.
The best way to check the amount of clear is to measure from the door jams, on the interior side after opening the doors, where one generally installs sill plates. That tells you the reality of the paint that you have, to work with, since the least amount of clear coat is applied there by manufacturers.

And the difference in paint thickness at that place with the rest of the car can give you an estimation about how much of that 140 microns is actually the clear coat.

Last edited by akhil994 : 30th July 2020 at 15:06.
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Old 30th July 2020, 16:33   #25
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Default Re: Feynlab - Ceramic coating done on my Kia Seltos

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Originally Posted by akhil994 View Post
A good detailer who knows their stuff will always look at these things. Rather should always look at these things. The customer may not always be aware about this stuff and it is the job of the detailer to educate the customer.

There is a balance that every detailing job needs to strike, with the amount of clear you are comfortable in stripping away which would fix the swirl marks and the orange peel. And generally detailers do a test section on cars to test the pad and product combination that would best work for the cars paint (hard/soft) and the condition (minor/severe defects). There should be no One-Size-Fits-All approach here, since every car you get is so different. Without doing that and working based on just an SOP, it just doesn't make sense. I would have started with a finishing polish with a medium pad , if it didn't work , would've then moved to medium compound with medium cut pad, then heavy cut pad and final would have been the heavy combo. But that would only be after testing a panel and seeing the results

In this example, if say the clear reading of 97 as in the post is after detailing, that is actually so dangerous. Kia cars have readings of about 140 microns on average.
The best way to check the amount of clear is to measure from the door jams, on the interior side after opening the doors, where one generally installs sill plates. That tells you the reality of the paint that you have, to work with, since the least amount of clear coat is applied there by manufacturers.

And the difference in paint thickness at that place with the rest of the car can give you an estimation about how much of that 140 microns is actually the clear coat.
Thanks a lot for giving your inputs.

I will check with them and let you know as why it was used. As per initial discussions with them i was told that any car that is exposed to outside conditions will have to go through 3 step paint correction process. ( be it new or old ). Only the degree of efforts that they would need to put on would vary depending on the age of the car. I will probe further into this matter and find out.

I don't have the device to check the paint thickness. It belonged to them.
I will need to go there again and find out the thickness on the interior panels.I will do that when I find time.

Last edited by Amyth Prabhakar : 30th July 2020 at 16:35.
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Old 30th July 2020, 16:42   #26
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Default Re: Feynlab - Ceramic coating done on my Kia Seltos

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Originally Posted by Amyth Prabhakar View Post
I will check with them and let you know as why it was used. As per initial discussions with them i was told that any car that is exposed to outside conditions will have to go through 3 step paint correction process. ( be it new or old ). Only the degree of efforts that they would need to put on would vary depending on the age of the car. I will probe further into this matter and find out.

I don't have the device to check the paint thickness. It belonged to them.
I will need to go there again and find out the thickness on the interior panels.I will do that when I find time.
You should definitely do that. I believe you have been grossly misinformed. I don't want to spoil your joy of how beautiful your car looks. Apologies for that , since that was not my intention.

I am sure even after this you have substantial clear coat to get paint correction done a couple of more times , but from a detailer who will ensure he does not burn through the paint.

Your car would have been able to achieve the mirror finish in a 1 step correction only! Maybe a couple of places would have required some medium compounding, but not the whole car.

If they (Feynlab) say otherwise, that's totally unethical and wrong. You should check the difference between the clear coat on the door jambs and the bonnet ( for example), if the difference is not much, I believe they have removed way too much clear than they were supposed to.

Generally on a new car, about 4-5 microns is the max you would need to remove to get the perfect mirror like finish. Even that is on the higher side, a skilled detailer would only remove 2-3 microns.
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Old 30th July 2020, 17:07   #27
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Default Re: Feynlab - Ceramic coating done on my Kia Seltos

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Originally Posted by akhil994 View Post

Your car would have been able to achieve the mirror finish in a 1 step correction only! Maybe a couple of places would have required some medium compounding, but not the whole car.

If they (Feynlab) say otherwise, that's totally unethical and wrong. You should check the difference between the clear coat on the door jambs and the bonnet ( for example), if the difference is not much, I believe they have removed way too much clear than they were supposed to.

Generally on a new car, about 4-5 microns is the max you would need to remove to get the perfect mirror like finish. Even that is on the higher side, a skilled detailer would only remove 2-3 microns.
You are absolutely right Akhil. One should always start with the least aggressive pad + compound combo and move up the scale as you mentioned. However, the reason why the shops do the three step is because of perceived value of money. Assume a customer who sees Wash + clay + polish + IPA wipedown + Ceramic coat for a price of 40K to 50K. It will be hard to digest for the customer.

3 stage polish makes the package more marketable and easier to sell for the price quoted. Ideally, the package cost should be in a range. Minimum price to max price based on the condition of the paint. But we all know that will not work in India , where customers will definitely argue a lot if quoted on the higher side of the price range when the condition of the paint is bad.

I feel that is the reason why more clear coat gets removed. In the name of 3 stage polish. Unfortunate!
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Old 30th July 2020, 17:21   #28
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Default Re: Feynlab - Ceramic coating done on my Kia Seltos

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You are absolutely right Akhil. One should always start with the least aggressive pad + compound combo and move up the scale as you mentioned. However, the reason why the shops do the three step is because of perceived value of money. Assume a customer who sees Wash + clay + polish + IPA wipedown + Ceramic coat for a price of 40K to 50K. It will be hard to digest for the customer.

3 stage polish makes the package more marketable and easier to sell for the price quoted. Ideally, the package cost should be in a range. Minimum price to max price based on the condition of the paint. But we all know that will not work in India , where customers will definitely argue a lot if quoted on the higher side of the price range when the condition of the paint is bad.

I feel that is the reason why more clear coat gets removed. In the name of 3 stage polish. Unfortunate!
And it is sad really. I mean 95% of the results are due to paint correction and also the cost of the whole job. If the car requires minor correction, like a 1 step, they can actually do the ceramic coating quite cheaper than this.

This job should have cost about 35-40k (Considering the time involved and the margin on the coating products as well! And I have kept a very very healthy margin. Kamikaze zipang coating, which is one of the best ceramic coatings out there, can be bought for about $320. The zipang coating kit would be like $390). I mean they would have saved so much of their own product - compounds, pads etc. by eliminating the unnecessary steps!

They should be able to offer customized packages based on the condition of the car. In doing so, they can also save time and charge less.

It's all about business ethics I feel. Whether you are detailing for the passion or just to mint money from people who are not aware completely and these guys then don't bother to correctly educate them.

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Old 30th July 2020, 22:47   #29
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Default Re: Feynlab - Ceramic coating done on my Kia Seltos

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Originally Posted by akhil994 View Post
And it is sad really. I mean 95% of the results are due to paint correction and also the cost of the whole job. If the car requires minor correction, like a 1 step, they can actually do the ceramic coating quite cheaper than this.

This job should have cost about 35-40k (Considering the time involved and the margin on the coating products as well! And I have kept a very very healthy margin. Kamikaze zipang coating, which is one of the best ceramic coatings out there, can be bought for about $320. The zipang coating kit would be like $390). I mean they would have saved so much of their own product - compounds, pads etc. by eliminating the unnecessary steps!

.
True, when I got my car PPF'd (brand new Seltos again), they clayed the whole car and in 1 area alone used a medium compound to get some resin like substance I must have picked up in the first week (this was a tiny area in the roof region near the antenna).

Even the price seems exorbitantly high ( no offense at all to OP), for a Seltos you can get the bonnet, doors and rear coated with PPF for around 80-90k, 55k for ceramic seems expensive
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Old 31st July 2020, 10:06   #30
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Default Re: Feynlab - Ceramic coating done on my Kia Seltos

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Originally Posted by akhil994 View Post

This job should have cost about 35-40k (Considering the time involved and the margin on the coating products as well! And I have kept a very very healthy margin. Kamikaze zipang coating, which is one of the best ceramic coatings out there, can be bought for about $320. The zipang coating kit would be like $390).

They should be able to offer customized packages based on the condition of the car. In doing so, they can also save time and charge less.

It's all about business ethics I feel. Whether you are detailing for the passion or just to mint money from people who are not aware completely and these guys then don't bother to correctly educate them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stribog View Post
True, when I got my car PPF'd (brand new Seltos again), they clayed the whole car and in 1 area alone used a medium compound to get some resin like substance I must have picked up in the first week (this was a tiny area in the roof region near the antenna).

Even the price seems exorbitantly high ( no offense at all to OP), for a Seltos you can get the bonnet, doors and rear coated with PPF for around 80-90k, 55k for ceramic seems expensive
Prices do vary across cities, brands, depends upon the package you choose and no commercial branded setup will agree to do it for lower costs in Bangalore unless you know them in someway. It will never be the same as a DIY project. Feynlab also offers a DIY range of products. You can procure it and do it yourself. It is the entry level product from them.

When you talk about the pricing, please also specify whether it was done for the entire vehicle ( Full Interior upholstery, and leather coverings + Exterior painted surfaces ) + All Glass elements + Alloys + All Exterior Plastics + tyres and also specify the products used and then do a comparison. Always compare apples to apples and not apples to oranges.
Also check if any hybrid products were used, because they are available at lower costs.


The price that I have mentioned includes everything that I have listed along with multiple washes and labour costs. This also includes free maintenance washes and coats after 6 months and 1 year. (Of course they would have included the cost for the free maintenance washes,coats as well and say free to attract customers and we know about all these gimmicks)

You can also customize the packages and drop some of the things to bring down the costs. Entirely depends on you.

I was a complete stranger to these Ceramic dealers before I met them and below are the prices and some of the work they do.

The whole intention of this thread was to give an insight into what happens behind the scenes during a ceramic coating process.

Opti coat Bangalore:

Feynlab - Ceramic coating done on my Kia Seltos-0.jpg

Packages and their Prices

The starting package from them is a semi-hybrid product.

Feynlab - Ceramic coating done on my Kia Seltos-1.jpg

Feynlab - Ceramic coating done on my Kia Seltos-2.jpg

Feynlab - Ceramic coating done on my Kia Seltos-3.jpg

Feynlab - Ceramic coating done on my Kia Seltos-3a.jpg

Feynlab - Ceramic coating done on my Kia Seltos-4.jpg

Feynlab - Ceramic coating done on my Kia Seltos-5.jpg

Feynlab - Ceramic coating done on my Kia Seltos-6.jpg

Feynlab - Ceramic coating done on my Kia Seltos-7.jpg

Feynlab - Ceramic coating done on my Kia Seltos-8.jpg

Feynlab - Ceramic coating done on my Kia Seltos-9.jpg

Ceramic Pro, Bangalore

Ceramic Pro gives crazy demos and also claim they are fire resistant. Not sure how much of all that they claim is true.
I don't have any experience with their products and will refrain from making any comments.

Feynlab - Ceramic coating done on my Kia Seltos-10.jpg

Packages and their Prices

Feynlab - Ceramic coating done on my Kia Seltos-11.jpg

Feynlab - Ceramic coating done on my Kia Seltos-12.jpg

Feynlab - Ceramic coating done on my Kia Seltos-13.jpg

Feynlab - Ceramic coating done on my Kia Seltos-13a.jpg

Feynlab - Ceramic coating done on my Kia Seltos-14.jpg

AutoTriz, Bangalore

Feynlab - Ceramic coating done on my Kia Seltos-15.jpg

Packages and their Prices

35k and 55k respectively [you can further customize and eliminate what you don't need to bring the costs down]

Feynlab - Ceramic coating done on my Kia Seltos-16.jpg

Feynlab Heal Lite and Heal Plus packages are top of the line and expensive products

Feynlab - Ceramic coating done on my Kia Seltos-19.jpg

Feynlab - Ceramic coating done on my Kia Seltos-17.jpg

Cermaic Lite is entry level and Ceramic is a Mid range product

Feynlab - Ceramic coating done on my Kia Seltos-18.jpg

Ceramic Plus - The one which i choose

Feynlab - Ceramic coating done on my Kia Seltos-18a.jpg

Feynlab has a broad range of PPF's as well From STEK.

They also do have carbon vinyl wraps and all are very expensive.

Feynlab - Ceramic coating done on my Kia Seltos-20.jpg

Feynlab - Ceramic coating done on my Kia Seltos-21.jpg

Feynlab - Ceramic coating done on my Kia Seltos-22.jpg

A few pics from the HSR layout branch

Feynlab - Ceramic coating done on my Kia Seltos-23.jpg

Feynlab - Ceramic coating done on my Kia Seltos-25.jpg

Feynlab - Ceramic coating done on my Kia Seltos-26.jpg

Feynlab, Museum road branch

Feynlab - Ceramic coating done on my Kia Seltos-100.jpg

Hope this helps!

Last edited by Amyth Prabhakar : 31st July 2020 at 10:33. Reason: Added the pricing details
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