Survey on Aerodynamic Body Kits

Harrie · 21st April 2005, 17:28

vulken remember one thing - you are trying to target a very niche market here. the number of people who can appreciate the effort you put in your work itself is very less. its a small percentage of that population which would go ahead and purchase your performance body kit. so think about your economics part of it also before considering the pricing et all.

Vulken Auto · 21st April 2005, 17:30

Ice, I have the world class technology and I want to use in this market where price is very senstive. and one more thing Veilside has tunnel testing kits.why not get some more for your car at little more price. Well this is just a survey if I think I can survive here then it takes place, Otherwise meaning less. and harrie that is why this poll

last time I checked, the wind tunnel testing costs 1500 gp/hr, and designing costs 50 euros /hr so it will be costly enough.

iceman91 · 21st April 2005, 17:36

hey vulken you can always use my cars as your demo vehicles!!

i really appreciate you doing this but we have not yet reached those levels of performance.
seriously admire your vision/ambition to do this.

Rtech · 21st April 2005, 17:40

So what prices are you looking at Vulken? Instead of body kits etc. maybe you should look at aftermarket hoods, doors, tailgates etc...all made from lightweight material. That would appeal to the serious performance seeking people. They rest would anyway only care about how it looks and would not be willing to pay 15-20K more for a kit that weighs 1 kg less.

That's the Indian market. Maybe if you are looking at the export market and resulting cost savings from manufacturing in India, then you could have a feasible project.

turbo_lover · 21st April 2005, 17:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by iceman91

i really appreciate you doing this but we have not yet reached those levels of performance.
:

completely agree ! ..
we are still on the street performance level ..
the quality of work you are doing on the kits ..will not be recognised in the current market ..got to look at it from the business point of view aswell ..

Harrie · 21st April 2005, 17:45

too

even on our tracks - the esteems and zens being the only cars i dont think the kits will be of much use.

a tinker in my hometown does body kits for 15k. after a week of tinkering around its as good as things get. and it maybe weighs a kilo or two more that a frp or poly eurethane...

i really would not care about 1 or 2 kiloes.

Vulken Auto · 21st April 2005, 18:00

Thanks Ice owe you big time, and thanks for encouragement
rtech , thanks for the suggestion, I have been planning from last 1 year to cut cost so that it can be feasable and makes sense in the indian market, I know I am more exposed to US market so safety was my first consideration apart from performanace(sounded like volvo) turbo , yes looking at business aspect, other wise I would have made them a while ago, harrie you right and I took you previous Pm into consideration also and I have cheap kits for AMM Jana also which is the dream for college guys; have been there.

autopsyche · 22nd April 2005, 00:04

Im a little confused about the topic of discussion... are we considering the indian market or the international market here?

If its the international the only reason u wud want a performance bodykit is when the aerodynamic and downforce gains are overshadowing the increase of weight from a urethanke kit (like nascar someone rightly pointed out). Even in the US i havent seen any serious performance cars with any kind of kits except for lightweight panels. Rest are all for show. Taking Veilside cars for example, if u take one of their souped up cars with the insane kits they have... remove the kits and im sure the cars would perform better.

The motive behind bodykits is purely visual enhancement and brand recognition, nothing else.

Even internationally, before we had urethane kits FRP used to be the stronghold material for all kits. Urethane kits came to be of more importance only because they were lighter in weight as compared to FRP, hence offering relatively lower decrease in performance.

If its the indian scenario we are talking about then we are not reaching speeds high enough to consider downforce. The only performance factor we want is decrease in weight, so why add on weight from a kit in the first place? (not talking about replacement hoods or body panels here).

The criteria for all kits made here are basically for the 'look different' factor and not for performance. The day india has a demand for performance kits im sure there'll be people to fulfill that

Cheers~

Arush

freakr · 22nd April 2005, 00:05

that was a good idea.concept is great...dude..sounds expensive though.first thing to remember ...in india..most people..go for the ones that are at affordable prices..and i think that 80% of them do the exterior only for looks..hardly there are people who think of exteriors with performance stuff..if you could really get in within the price range..then it would be a good hit...

byramshroff · 22nd April 2005, 01:47

Basically at the speeds that our cars and roads are capable of here in india there is no point in going in for a hi end performance kit as it will not make any difference what so ever

Hatari · 22nd April 2005, 02:00

aero kits for passenger cars dont make any sense..
u have to be doing atleast 120km/hr for them to have any sort of effect
how often do road cars touch that speed ?

Mpower · 22nd April 2005, 03:57

Quote:

kit comes with carbon fiber hood, front bumper with adjustable DF, back bumper, fenders(optional carbon fiber) side skirts, CF wings. just give your opinion for price on this??

I'm not sure I understood right. Are these parts going to be made out of carbon-fiber or uretheane? As far as I know a carbon fiber hood in the US costs $500. I dont know how you are going to make all this out of CF for 30K. BTW what is adjustable DF?
As far as I know, even guys like Brabus and Alpina don't do any wind-tunnel testing. These kits are primarily for looks. Even a F1 team like Minardi is not able to afford wind-tunnel testing.

Vulken Auto · 22nd April 2005, 04:56

Thanks for the feedback guys. Yes you can shed approx max of 5-10kgs if you use the wholekit. Yes minardi cant afford tunnel testing, since F1 car is complex structure, the car is built around the chassis. here we are not building a car. we are just adjusting some surfaces, so not using many hrs. As I said I worked out everything out with Zagato centrostile and it was close to 30lks. Hey I dont want to be rich, as some greedy beggars out there, my only aim is to make the said for indian car in affordable range, thats my aim and only goal in life. Thats the only reason I came back from US leaving everything.

Yes autopsyche dont get shocked, we are considering indian market here. I am already rich and dont care abt pricing much, will wipe everysmall player in town if I can start the project

freaker thanks for the encouragement.
Ram yes I pointed out your need aerodynamics after certaain speeds, its not abt aerodynamics alone..... safety(when do we guys think abt safety, quality and finish)
Mpower Hahah Yes US makes insane prices , but you know I am the crazy manufacturer who doesnt want profits???
Guys, one point here Im not looking for profits but want to help the indian automobile scene to get better. So any help from your side is highly appreciated. If formed Vulken Auto will be a non profit organization.

turbo_lover · 22nd April 2005, 09:35

very modest of you vulken ... so long the non profit organization doesnt go into a deficit you should be fine and feeling proud...

for aerodynamics to be really efficient .. it has to be built from scrap for each model ..
similar framed kit will not work on each model (a skoda will have to have a completely different setup compared to what you look to manufacture for corolla ) ...i am sure you have already taken that aspect into consideration ...

indian automotive scenario certainly needs a selfless Gandhi figure like you ...

all the best on this project...

PS: you mentioned in a previous post something about your finance prof ...guessing you majored in a Business program .. where did you get the expertise on automobiles ... am just curious .

cheers

autopsyche · 22nd April 2005, 23:09

None of us are shocked, really... im sure you have all the capabilities to 'wipe put every small player in the market' and 'beggars wanting to be rich'.

Infact since u are so rich im sure u can sponsor some of my projects too!

One more question, u said that its not about just aerodynamics but about safety too. Could you please elaborate on how 'non-performance' bodykits are unsafe?

21st April 2005, 17:28	#16
Harrie BHPian Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: KA 03, KL 12, TN 38 Posts: 701 Thanked: 36 Times View My Garage	vulken remember one thing - you are trying to target a very niche market here. the number of people who can appreciate the effort you put in your work itself is very less. its a small percentage of that population which would go ahead and purchase your performance body kit. so think about your economics part of it also before considering the pricing et all.
	() Thanks

21st April 2005, 17:30	#17
Vulken Auto BHPian Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: . Posts: 572 Thanked: 321 Times	Ice, I have the world class technology and I want to use in this market where price is very senstive. and one more thing Veilside has tunnel testing kits.why not get some more for your car at little more price. Well this is just a survey if I think I can survive here then it takes place, Otherwise meaning less. and harrie that is why this poll last time I checked, the wind tunnel testing costs 1500 gp/hr, and designing costs 50 euros /hr so it will be costly enough. Last edited by Vulken Auto : 21st April 2005 at 17:35.
	() Thanks

21st April 2005, 17:36	#18
iceman91 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: melbourne/banga Posts: 1,961 Thanked: 35 Times View My Garage	hey vulken you can always use my cars as your demo vehicles!! i really appreciate you doing this but we have not yet reached those levels of performance. seriously admire your vision/ambition to do this.
	() Thanks

21st April 2005, 17:40	#19
Rtech Team-BHP Support Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Bombay Posts: 5,770 Thanked: 365 Times View My Garage	So what prices are you looking at Vulken? Instead of body kits etc. maybe you should look at aftermarket hoods, doors, tailgates etc...all made from lightweight material. That would appeal to the serious performance seeking people. They rest would anyway only care about how it looks and would not be willing to pay 15-20K more for a kit that weighs 1 kg less. That's the Indian market. Maybe if you are looking at the export market and resulting cost savings from manufacturing in India, then you could have a feasible project.
	() Thanks

21st April 2005, 17:45	#21
Harrie BHPian Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: KA 03, KL 12, TN 38 Posts: 701 Thanked: 36 Times View My Garage	too even on our tracks - the esteems and zens being the only cars i dont think the kits will be of much use. a tinker in my hometown does body kits for 15k. after a week of tinkering around its as good as things get. and it maybe weighs a kilo or two more that a frp or poly eurethane... i really would not care about 1 or 2 kiloes.
	() Thanks

21st April 2005, 18:00	#22
Vulken Auto BHPian Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: . Posts: 572 Thanked: 321 Times	Thanks Ice owe you big time, and thanks for encouragement rtech , thanks for the suggestion, I have been planning from last 1 year to cut cost so that it can be feasable and makes sense in the indian market, I know I am more exposed to US market so safety was my first consideration apart from performanace(sounded like volvo) turbo , yes looking at business aspect, other wise I would have made them a while ago, harrie you right and I took you previous Pm into consideration also and I have cheap kits for AMM Jana also which is the dream for college guys; have been there. Last edited by Vulken Auto : 21st April 2005 at 18:11.
	() Thanks

22nd April 2005, 00:04	#23
autopsyche Senior - BHPian Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: New Delhi, Indi Posts: 1,519 Thanked: 35 Times View My Garage	Im a little confused about the topic of discussion... are we considering the indian market or the international market here? If its the international the only reason u wud want a performance bodykit is when the aerodynamic and downforce gains are overshadowing the increase of weight from a urethanke kit (like nascar someone rightly pointed out). Even in the US i havent seen any serious performance cars with any kind of kits except for lightweight panels. Rest are all for show. Taking Veilside cars for example, if u take one of their souped up cars with the insane kits they have... remove the kits and im sure the cars would perform better. The motive behind bodykits is purely visual enhancement and brand recognition, nothing else. Even internationally, before we had urethane kits FRP used to be the stronghold material for all kits. Urethane kits came to be of more importance only because they were lighter in weight as compared to FRP, hence offering relatively lower decrease in performance. If its the indian scenario we are talking about then we are not reaching speeds high enough to consider downforce. The only performance factor we want is decrease in weight, so why add on weight from a kit in the first place? (not talking about replacement hoods or body panels here). The criteria for all kits made here are basically for the 'look different' factor and not for performance. The day india has a demand for performance kits im sure there'll be people to fulfill that Cheers~ Arush
	() Thanks

22nd April 2005, 00:05	#24
freakr BANNED Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: bangalore/vizag Posts: 62 Thanked: 0 Times	that was a good idea.concept is great...dude..sounds expensive though.first thing to remember ...in india..most people..go for the ones that are at affordable prices..and i think that 80% of them do the exterior only for looks..hardly there are people who think of exteriors with performance stuff..if you could really get in within the price range..then it would be a good hit...
	() Thanks

22nd April 2005, 01:47	#25
byramshroff BHPian Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: mumbai Posts: 195 Thanked: 0 Times	Basically at the speeds that our cars and roads are capable of here in india there is no point in going in for a hi end performance kit as it will not make any difference what so ever
	() Thanks

22nd April 2005, 02:00	#26
Hatari Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Calcutta Posts: 1,880 Thanked: 881 Times	aero kits for passenger cars dont make any sense.. u have to be doing atleast 120km/hr for them to have any sort of effect how often do road cars touch that speed ?
	() Thanks

22nd April 2005, 04:56	#28
Vulken Auto BHPian Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: . Posts: 572 Thanked: 321 Times	Thanks for the feedback guys. Yes you can shed approx max of 5-10kgs if you use the wholekit. Yes minardi cant afford tunnel testing, since F1 car is complex structure, the car is built around the chassis. here we are not building a car. we are just adjusting some surfaces, so not using many hrs. As I said I worked out everything out with Zagato centrostile and it was close to 30lks. Hey I dont want to be rich, as some greedy beggars out there, my only aim is to make the said for indian car in affordable range, thats my aim and only goal in life. Thats the only reason I came back from US leaving everything. Yes autopsyche dont get shocked, we are considering indian market here. I am already rich and dont care abt pricing much, will wipe everysmall player in town if I can start the project freaker thanks for the encouragement. Ram yes I pointed out your need aerodynamics after certaain speeds, its not abt aerodynamics alone..... safety(when do we guys think abt safety, quality and finish) Mpower Hahah Yes US makes insane prices , but you know I am the crazy manufacturer who doesnt want profits??? Guys, one point here Im not looking for profits but want to help the indian automobile scene to get better. So any help from your side is highly appreciated. If formed Vulken Auto will be a non profit organization. Last edited by Vulken Auto : 22nd April 2005 at 05:02.
	() Thanks

22nd April 2005, 09:35	#29
turbo_lover Senior - BHPian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Toronto Posts: 1,377 Thanked: 9 Times	very modest of you vulken ... so long the non profit organization doesnt go into a deficit you should be fine and feeling proud... for aerodynamics to be really efficient .. it has to be built from scrap for each model .. similar framed kit will not work on each model (a skoda will have to have a completely different setup compared to what you look to manufacture for corolla ) ...i am sure you have already taken that aspect into consideration ... indian automotive scenario certainly needs a selfless Gandhi figure like you ... all the best on this project... PS: you mentioned in a previous post something about your finance prof ...guessing you majored in a Business program .. where did you get the expertise on automobiles ... am just curious . cheers
	() Thanks

22nd April 2005, 23:09	#30
autopsyche Senior - BHPian Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: New Delhi, Indi Posts: 1,519 Thanked: 35 Times View My Garage	None of us are shocked, really... im sure you have all the capabilities to 'wipe put every small player in the market' and 'beggars wanting to be rich'. Infact since u are so rich im sure u can sponsor some of my projects too! One more question, u said that its not about just aerodynamics but about safety too. Could you please elaborate on how 'non-performance' bodykits are unsafe?
	() Thanks