[amit_mechengg]

Originally Posted by im_srini

I think this would be an "interesting" endeavor, or at the least, a nice thought experiment. The Alto parts-catalog should be able to help with this list.


Amit, surprisingly I don't remember seeing different part numbers for the Lx & Vx PCMs (ECU). Anyway, will go through the catalog & put up a comprehensive list of parts needed for this swap...

that will be really helpful srini. you part list has always come handy to many of us. i think the ecu should be different as there are variety of different functions like 4th injector, feedback loops as there is an addition of one more cylinder.

[ilangop]

Originally Posted by Ramsagar

- i'm not sure if you can do it for carburetted,but can be done for MPFI.

Hi Ram,
The colleague who has a M800 is about to change its clutch. So it is just a try to check if the M1000 Gear box will fit with minimal modifications.

Are you sure that it could be done on an MPFI. Has any one already tried this out on MPFI. What all needs to be changed? Will the M800 drive shaft serve the purpose or does it require any alteration in length?

[pedrolourenco]

Originally Posted by ilangop

I am planning to experiment if the 5 speed could be plonked into the Maruti 800 (carburetted) of my colleague's. Has anyone already tried this out? or at least studied the feasibility.-Ilango

Originally Posted by ilangop

Hi Ram,
The colleague who has a M800 is about to change its clutch. So it is just a try to check if the M1000 Gear box will fit with minimal modifications. Are you sure that it could be done on an MPFI. Has any one already tried this out on MPFI. What all needs to be changed? Will the M800 drive shaft serve the purpose or does it require any alteration in length?

The M-800 5 Speed actually came with the gearbox from the M-1000. So there should be no problem with this swap. In fact you can put the Esteem engine + gearbox into the 800.

[Technocrat]

Are you sure about that? The last I knew the gear box was from Alto.
Not sure if Alto's gearbox came from M1000 though

[pedrolourenco]

Originally Posted by Technocrat

Are you sure about that? The last I knew the gear box was from Alto.
Not sure if Alto's gearbox came from M1000 though

Yea. I remember reading it in some Auto Magazine a long time ago. That means the M1000, Alto & M800 5S have the same gearbox. At the most the ratio's might have been slightly altered. Need to check with someone at MASS or someone who has the workshop manuals of these cars.

[Ramsagar]

I'm sure you can definitely fit into an MPFI but not into carbureted one.cos the ECU & other major changes need to be taken care, which is expensive.

M800-5 speed,alto & 1000cc share the same grear box.

[ilangop]

Guys, Finally it was confirmed at the workshop that the M1000 neither M-Zen's GB would fit in the M-800 Carburetted engine. So he ended up replacing the clutch & pressure plate, and drove home.

[pedrolourenco]

Originally Posted by ilangop

Guys, Finally it was confirmed at the workshop that the M1000 neither M-Zen's GB would fit in the M-800 Carburetted engine. So he ended up replacing the clutch & pressure plate, and drove home.

Are you sure? Because this gearbox was also a topic of debate in Parliament. The opposition wanted to know why it was not indeginised even though it was used in a number of cars. The Zen gear box is different.

[MexXxentric]

First identify a Alto Spin ( 1.1L) and do a through study.
Understand the differences in the hardware.
Make a list of parts you need from that totalled wagon R.
Get a copy of service manuals of Alto and Wagon R so that you can identify the common parts by referring the part numbers.

The possible challenges you might face are-

1. Mounting the engine and ALIGNING its properly
2.Mating the gearbox with engine. if the bolt patterns are different you will need to fabricate an adapter plate. The GB mounts & drive shafts might need alteration to compensate for the length. 3.Rewiring the ECM ( very little chance for 800 & 1.1 to share the same PCM wiring)
4.Selection of Clutch plate.- If you use the 800's GB and Clutch plate, theoretically it cant take the extra power & torque generated.
5.Flywheel? You will have to use the flywheel which will fit inside the bell housing of the gear box you are using. ( better to go for wagon R's GB, Flywheel and clutch if mountings permits)
6. A MECHANIC WHO IS GENUINE AND ENTHUSIASTIC TO TAKE THE PROJECT.

Parts you need to procure or outsource include, not limited to.
Engine with all the sensors, alternator& AC mounting points.(buy the exhaust manifold housing O2 sensors) ECM & Wiring loom/harness
Wagon R's or Alto Spin's Gear box,
Flywheel & starter.( drive shaft???)
Radiator, Fan and Hoses
Fuel pump from Wagon R( if the 800's &1.1's F.P is different)
Air Filter assembly for 1.1l engine
Does the 1.1l and 800 engines' ECM require speed signal input from the speedo? If you are lucky both speedos will give similar output.If no,, you will have to import the alto spin's speedo console also

The positive part of the whole project is that you are trying to duplicate an already released model. So you got a reference and also off the shelf bolt on parts available in case you feel lost on the project.
It’s also the negative part. After all these efforts, you will be left with a car which your neighbour could buy at a much less overall cost.

[GTO]

The thread starter would be much better off with selling his 0.8 liter Alto and buying a used 1.1 instead. Factory fit is factory fit. Period.

[Dhar's]

IIRC a fellow bhpian had a trial on his Alto to swap 1.1ltr engine long ago. I dont remember how successful it was. I tried searching archives but couldn't find posts on that.

[shineshine]

I just managed to get one Alto VXi for my cousin for 1.85 Lkhs. 2003 with 19,000 kms onboard. Its the first time I've driven an Alto 1.1 VXi and I really like. I could easily say that its the best Alto maruti has ever made. The perfect engine for a small car

[Gansan]

So what is the update on this thread? Did the OP modify bis car?

When I visited MSM last week for the third service of my Alto, I saw a heap of engines on their first floor. I think almost all of them were from totaled cars. Some looked like scrap and some seemed to be in very good (visual) condition.

Can such a modification for Alto be done by the guys at MASS? I am not planning to do it any time soon, just wondering. May be after some years when it is time for an upgrade - just may be - such a swap can be fun? And can it be done legally with proper RTO endorsements? I did not broach the subject with them, of course!

[pedrolourenco]

Originally Posted by YC.BALENO.CHD

Well, I think that the 1.1 should be a straight fit for the alto. However, if anyone here has any idea about it, I would like to know if the engine bay of the 800 is large enough to accomodate a 1.1 litre engine with the 5 speed transmission.

Reviving an old thread. Did anyone actually check the above. Now that Maruti 800's are available dirt cheap and the possibility of finding cheap F10D engines (from scrapped Wagon R's) is much better, I wanted to explore this option. Nothing like having a classic looking SB308 bodyshell (1st generation) with a nice MPFI 1.1L engine and 5 speed gearbox. Looking at this as a project to keep myself busy for the next vacation.

[Leoshashi]

Originally Posted by pedrolourenco

Reviving an old thread. Did anyone actually check the above. Now that Maruti 800's are available dirt cheap and the possibility of finding cheap F10D engines (from scrapped Wagon R's) is much better, I wanted to explore this option. Nothing like having a classic looking SB308 bodyshell (1st generation) with a nice MPFI 1.1L engine and 5 speed gearbox. Looking at this as a project to keep myself busy for the next vacation.

Firstly you'll need to extensively change the mounts. JFYI, even if both the 5 Speed 800 and the Alto run on F8D engines, blocks of both cars are different. There are changes in mount location and other stuff.

Secondly if you manage to sort out the issue of creating your own custom mounts, even then the F10D will be a super tight fit in the engine bay of a M800.

People have managed to plonk the good old F10A engine plus carb successfully. One FNG in my city which regularly does such swaps, had tried this F10D on a customer's car, but failed.

But yes, if you manage to pull it off, it will be an exciting car to own.

Regards,
Shashi