[Vik0728]

Hi Guys,

Im pretty new to this motorhead community but already I am an addict. Almost always, TBHP is running on my comp, whether at home or at work!! Anyws, I wanted to post some mods done on my ride, which is a Santro Xing and was wondering if some of the veterans here could help me and guide me better in the same aspect.

• I have installed a K&N performance filter. Now, the question is whether I should go for a Header as well or is there any other alternative to improve the performance.
• I have installed a 15" Alloy with 195/45 profile tyre and am having no issues from over 2 months now. Now, has anybody tried installing a 15" Alloy on a Zing? If yes, have they had any issue?
• I have Philips 100/90 Zeon bulbs on ma ride. Now, can we install HID kits for a Xing? If yes, where can I find a good dealer in Bangalore?
• I have the basic Autocop security installed. I am planning to install Xenos on the car. Can I get an Up-module as well on the same?

I am attaching some snaps of my ride below:

[Wind splitter]

Car looks cool, I think the silver number plate you have spoils the looks, a decent number plate would make you car look more classy IMO.

What make are those wheels?

After K&N airfilter a Free Flow exhaust should be the next step to step up the performance, how ever if I am wrong in that case gurus will be able to throw some light on that.

[CPH]

What does the K&N filter consist of? Is it a replacement filter or one of the induction kits. Might be worth of showing a picture under the bonnet.

Exhaust improvement is one of the last modifications to be made.

If you intend to have other modifications you should have the exhaust calculated for the best improvement.

If you intend not to have a full system then I would change the back box by a performance back box.

Otherwise the performance will increase when re-mapping the ECU. But be aware that there is big differences between mappers and the best results are being achieved with the use of a rolling road.

[Vik0728]

Thank you guys for the feedback.
@wind splitter - I had a normal while background on the license plate until recently buddy. Guess the Pic is not too good but believe me the grey plate & the size compliments the car colour.

CPH Im kinda novice with the mod jargans you've use in your post!! Can you please explain what is a "Back Box" and where would I be able to change one into a performance box, please Cost if I can?
As well, is ECU remapping harmful if Im intending to keep this car for eternity?
If not, where can I get this done in Bangalore and at what cost??
What on earth is Rolling Road??

I really did not want to sound like a Question paper guys but I guess I do now!!!

[UniqueMods]

things you could do to your car -

1. one thing always missing in all santro, is a tacho. get a sunpro make with a 2 cly setting. that's the only one that works.
2. some good SQ ICE
3. front center arm rest.
4. led under dash white light connected to cabin light. makes those dark interiors better.
5. FFE

others, not really required.
6. performance spark plug.
7. performance spark plug cables.
8. volt meter if ur running heavy amps and mono.

i have the same color santro, with some of the above mods.

UM

[Vik0728]

Hey UniqueMods, appreciate your response.

To begin with, my Xing was a Limited Edition launched in Jan '07 to celebrate over a lakh Santro's on Indian road. So, guess first of its kind, my ride came with features which were never there in any Santro's before and apparently will never be again!!
Translation - I got a Tachometer built into my Meter guage. I have posted my experience with the Sunshine car for 3yrs along with some snaps under this post
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/long-t...shine-car.html

Now, what I want is way of improving performance ONLY!! I am not trying to get ahead of myself here and am aware its a puny 1.1 ltr engine here, but I am still pretty sure that one of you experts can still advice me on getting the most off my ride's powertrain.

[UniqueMods]

nice console, with the tacho.

for performance,
1. what k&n do you have? stock replacement or conical. post a pic of engine bay.
2. next you can get a FFE and spark plugs with cables. This should increase performance, and not make a great diff in mileage.
3. I am not sure there is any stage 1 clutch for a Santro.

if you really into modding your santro, there are santro's in mumbai running performance cams and engine head works. but expect a noticeable drop in mileage in both theses mods.
also there is a option of enlarged throttle body. but I am not much into these stage 2 mods and have limited knowledge.

Your in Bangy! you got good tuners at your disposal.

UM

[Forged_Piston]

Hi Vik,

Nice car you have there.love the wheels.BTW have you installed spacers or is the wheel well able to accomodate that size without a problem?

Anyways to continue with your questions.

Letting the engine breathe easy is the first step in increasing performance and to some extent fuel economy.

Inorder to do this you need to get a cold air intake system done.(just chk unique mods garage to understand this.its the big shiny L shaped pipe in the middle of the engine bay with a round air filter at the end).

Next would be to get a Free flow exhaust system with custom made headers.In doing so you would definately add a few bhp to your current setup.

Also changing the spark plugs to high performance ones will help fuel burn better.

All these mods will cost you some where around 25-30 k's.

I think wht CPH meant by black box is the engine managment system and the rolling road would refer to a dyno.But at this stage i really dont think that you need either.

[UniqueMods]

Originally Posted by Forged_Piston

Hi Vik,

Inorder to do this you need to get a cold air intake system done.(just chk unique mods garage to understand this.its the big shiny L shaped pipe in the middle of the engine bay with a round air filter at the end).

mine is just a conical filter fitted facing the grill for cold air.

attached pic is a cold air intake fitted in Teambhp member Jassi's Santro.

UM

[CPH]

Originally Posted by Vik0728

Thank you guys for the feedback.
@wind splitter - I had a normal while background on the license plate until recently buddy. Guess the Pic is not too good but believe me the grey plate & the size compliments the car colour.

CPH Im kinda novice with the mod jargans you've use in your post!! Can you please explain what is a "Back Box" and where would I be able to change one into a performance box, please Cost if I can?
As well, is ECU remapping harmful if Im intending to keep this car for eternity?
If not, where can I get this done in Bangalore and at what cost??
What on earth is Rolling Road??

I really did not want to sound like a Question paper guys but I guess I do now!!!

Don't worry. I am answering for over thirty years such questions and you can only learn by asking.

I might come over rather scientific at times. Forgive me for it, which isn't my intention. I try to give you insight into the field to help you to come to your own conclusions rather then spoon feeding people and make myself looking like a guru.

The back box is the rear silencer. The Yanks call muffler.

The reason why I ask for a picture from under the bonnet is because I would like to see what the K&n is about. Air intake revision is what I spend most of my time with.

By just getting a K&N on the car you won't necessarily get a gain. In most applications you actually loose performance (with pipercross you will loose performance in all applications). I have not tested these applications on the rolling road (chassis dyno), but also on te drag strip and track.

Regarding the exhast system:

What people call a free flow system is technically not correct. The reason why I bring this up is not to start a hair splitting contest. The term is often falsely used to sell products giving the unsuspecting customer the idea to purchase a superior product.

Exhaust design is a much more complex matter than people would think.

Just to give you an idea what determines the differences:

The original Dodge Viper had and exhaust that was so poorly designed that Supersprint gained on a proper of the shelf design as much as 78bhp (which is certified)!

A lot of the Japanese cars gai up to 20bhp on engines up to 2000cc.

Exhaust design is detrmined by engine parameters as much as by what sort of characteristices of the torque curve requested.

The exhaust system is technically part of the engine design.

But the exhaust has got its own problems in getting the best out of it independently from the engine.

Staying with a four cylinder inline engine configuration (which narrows down the points to look at) you still have to differentiate between siamese ports and individual ports.

Let's stay with individual ports. It makes quite a difference, whether you have a header that goes from 4 into 1 or 4 into 2 into 1 pipe.

Heaving the catalytic converter in the header is usually rather bad news.

The cat housing shape is much more critical to performance than the number of cells pewr square inch.

The header pipe lengths and diameters make a difference (and need to be calculated correctly in connection with the collector pipe diameter).

The angle and shape where 2 pipes join and the way the leading edge is made have a heavy impact on performance.

The exhaust pipes need to have a step up from the exhaust ports. But this step should preferably not be even. A D-shaped step up has proven to be best on round and oval ports (this is needed for scavenging) to ensre the burnt gases are replace completely by fresh gas before the valve closes).

Bends should be avoided as much as possible and where nedded it should be around 10 degrees more and then come back the 10 degrees.

Further down the line the collector pipe size should decrease to maintain the gas speed.

The back box should be a free flowing one. But what a lot of people call a free flow one is not as free flowing as you might think. To make a silencer really free flowing it takes a lot of effort not making it very boomy or loud.

I have seen a lot of exhausts in my life (I design exhaust systems too) and can say that most of the products I would not use on my car calling it performance or free flow exhaust.

Unfortunately I can't help you on recommending a place near you because I do not know anyone personally in India. But what I have written above will help you finding the right people. In any case feel free to ask and if you need need some clearification feel free to pm me.

Regarding the ECU re-map:

I do them ONLY with testing on the rolling road. I do not like to use tuning boxes or re-map from what we call door step mappers, which come to you ad upload a map because you never knoe what you get. And from experience I can tell that a lot of these maps aren'T adequate and in some cases on petrols lean the engine out or mae it too rich, which has lead to bore wash with problems 6 months down the line. All maps I and my associates do are generic maps (prepared by ourselves) and then optimised on the rolling road.

If it is done this way, the Re-map is safe and not doing long term damage.

[CPH]

Originally Posted by UniqueMods

mine is just a conical filter fitted facing the grill for cold air.

attached pic is a cold air intake fitted in Teambhp member Jassi's Santro.

UM

Sorry, but this is how not to do it.

[Vik0728]

Hey CPH I don't know what you do for living man, but I am totally in Awe about the plethora of knowledge you have about this!

Just one request, I will get a good snap of K&N filter under the hood and post it. Please return back to this thread once a day to check since I am very eager to know if I have it right and how I can change or imprve if not!!

Thank you ever so much for all the info.

[CPH]

Originally Posted by Vik0728

Hey CPH I don't know what you do for living man, but I am totally in Awe about the plethora of knowledge you have about this!

Just one request, I will get a good snap of K&N filter under the hood and post it. Please return back to this thread once a day to check since I am very eager to know if I have it right and how I can change or imprve if not!!

Thank you ever so much for all the info.

Performance tuning is my occupation. I am in the field in the 31st year now. I am sure your knowledge in your occupation is as good as mine in my field.

I try to come back as often as I can, but there might be times when I can't be on for several days. I will reply.

It is a shame that I can't pass by, but I am thinking of making your part of the world a place to visit in the future on a regular basis.

[UniqueMods]

Originally Posted by CPH

Sorry, but this is how not to do it.

then how to fit it? i would like to know other options.

could you please explain with pic of conical and the cold air intake from other cars if possible.

UM

[CPH]

Originally Posted by UniqueMods

then how to fit it? i would like to know other options.

could you please explain with pic of conical and the cold air intake from other cars if possible.

UM

I am happily doing this.

The little problem I have got is that we haven't this model in England.

I need some more pictures shot from different positions. The engine bay is tight.

When I come over to Mumbai in June (arrive 14th and leave on the 18t) I am happily meeting some of you guys in Mumbai or close to it to take some measurements and work out some solutions on different cars.

Is there any space between the wing, the inner wheel arch and the bumper?