[ringoism]

Originally Posted by aargee

what I typically look is for a short, crisp, positive & negative notes on the vehicle's capability & that should not take more than 5-6 seconds to get a basic understanding. Then comes the big masala flavored unbiased factual write-up that contains the ride/drive experience, NOT the personal feelings. Typically MotoHive & TBhp write-ups are the ones to attract & retain readers.

To each his own (and be assured I've no desire to be "typical"), but how is it possible to describe a ride/drive experience WITHOUT personal feelings? We are not talking about a Boxer/Splendor here, and enthusiast biking has always been about how it "moves" us in less easily definable ways (if it were not so, we wouldn't need anything more than ONE bike in the market in any given segment!). The personal connection I experienced riding the UM got me interested. It needn't be the same for everyone. I defended UM on that basis and because I felt there was unnecessary and baseless prejudices coming into play MORE than actual ride/ownership experiences. I'll stand by that.

Originally Posted by payeng

Exactly the same sentiment that I share for "ringoism" Also @ ringoism, your posts are awfully too long to read on a smartphone screen

I'm nearing the half-century mark and am old-school in preferring to use a wide-screen laptop for forum-diving. Try it, your eyes will thank you later.

Meanwhile, you can feel free to consider me the Russian novelist of TBhp. Like them, I know I will not prove "accessible" to everyone. No worries. I am not in a popularity contest.

Originally Posted by amitc7

Bro, you are brave enough to defend UM, why not put your money down...

Already had mentioned the reasons: 1. I don't buy new vehicles typically; 2. I'm 600km from the nearest UM showroom. So not feasible for ME, though it may be more so for the average metro-TBhpian.

What I DID do is buy their T-shirt:



Like the bike, it may be a bit overpriced (Rs600)... but I liked both the image (vtg BSA?) and philosophy proclaimed, it feels good on me, and seems to be of reasonable quality.

If people buy their bikes, it may end up being for the same reasons.

-Eric

[aargee]

Originally Posted by ringoism

but how is it possible to describe a ride/drive experience WITHOUT personal feelings?

Read the official reviews in TBhp, you'll get to know how a review is written unbiased in neutral language WITHOUT personal feelings

[jetti]

Guys, chill, he's not putting up the official review here. Its more in line with the Test Drive and Initial Ownership Reports sub-forum where the threads will contain plenty of personal opinions and experiences.

Granted, we all have our favorite review style and I don't look at anything other then Team-BHP for official reviews, but reviews would be too bland if everyone followed the same style. It's interesting for me to to read other reviews as well long as they are heartfelt and honest. It's good to know what appealed to someone else.

Originally Posted by aargee

Read the official reviews in TBhp, you'll get to know how a review is written unbiased in neutral language WITHOUT personal feelings

[ringoism]

Originally Posted by jetti

Guys, chill, he's not putting up the official review here. Its more in line with the Test Drive and Initial Ownership Reports sub-forum where the threads will contain plenty of personal opinions and experiences...It's interesting for me to to read other reviews as well long as they are heartfelt and honest. It's good to know what appealed to someone else.

Many thanks for piping up - you got the idea.

To sum up with brevity, in consideration of smartphone users:

1. I absolutely loved the way the UM Commando rode - power, handling, ride quality, brakes, and especially seating position. I had low expectations going in, but was pleasantly surprised by the experience and felt it was a bike I could enjoy riding daily, far into the future.

2. Despite some shortcomings (paint quality, excessive use of plastics, etc), it is unfair to write off the UM as an inferior product overall. We just don't know enough yet to say.

3. The reasoning expressed earlier in the thread seems to be: A) Chinese bikes are all bad; B) UM has done business with the Chinese at some point in the past; C) Thus UM's current Indian market offerings must be bad / liable to fall apart within months. There is a gap in information / logic here someplace that I think it's fair to expose. There may not be a single Chinese bolt or clip in the UM products, and even if there were, who's to say it's of worse quality than anyone's (China-made) I-phone?

4. People for whom the style works and the ride experience similarly inspires, who have sufficient funds to assume a little risk (i.e., the Mizos in Aizawl) have started buying these in reasonable numbers. Others in a similar situation can feel free to do likewise wherever there's a showroom. For the rest of us, I think we just need to keep our fingers on the pulse and see what the bike actually turns out to be reliability-wise, and whether the network expands out far enough for people like me to consider actually owning one.

-Eric

[ringoism]

Originally Posted by aargee

Read the official reviews in TBhp, you'll get to know how a review is written unbiased in neutral language WITHOUT personal feelings

Good advice. However, I tried reading those many times over the years... I've got a scientific (mechanical engineering) background but find such reviews to be unbearably dull/boring/sterile for the most part :-(

No objection if the T-bhp powers-that-be and many readers like it thus, but humans being as varied in experience / taste as we are (not to mention being often fickle/inconsistent), I really doubt that even the best-intentioned are capable of truly unbiased objectivity.

That to me is where the benefits of real discussion, of comparing notes, offering points and counterpoints and personal experiences comes in. Generally that's what forums are all about (and I did write all I did in that context). As per the inspired sage of old:

"Without counsel plans go awry, but in the multitude of counselors they are established".

I don't think most people buy anything on the basis of a single opinion, and I certainly couldn't regard any "official review" as indisputable truth. Especially when it comes to that highly personal / subjective endeavor called biking. Surely there is room for something other than technical "white papers" here. But to each his own...

Regarding the question of the Chinese again, came across these articles today, which make specific mention of the seemingly decent quality of a certain China-made bike, the first in the intro, the second a few paragraphs down. A similar setup to UM's actually, where design work is being done in the West (Italy, or in UM's case the U.S.), but production in Asia:

http://www.motorcycle.com/manufacturer/benelli/manufacturerbenelli2016-benelli-tnt-300-review-html.html

http://www.motoroids.com/reviews/ben...eight-brawler/

Thanks,

-Eric

[Steeroid]

Originally Posted by ringoism

That to me is where the benefits of real discussion, of comparing notes, offering points and counterpoints and personal experiences comes in. Generally that's what forums are all about (and I did write all I did in that context). As per the inspired sage of old:

"Without counsel plans go awry, but in the multitude of counselors they are established".

Especially when it comes to that highly personal / subjective endeavor called biking. Surely there is room for something other than technical "white papers" here.

Thanks,

-Eric

Dear Eric/Ringoism

I really enjoyed that writeup of yours, even if I care two hoots for this UM brand. Whether its the Bolero build, rebuild and subsequent rebuilds, this one or your Korean bike, your writing has a unique personal touch that makes the experience very human. Its what makes one sit and go through a thread on such an obscure bike that otherwise warrants no attention.

Dont change your style. Automobiles are a deeply personal obsession and each person's take on a vehicle brings out interesting facets - some like us would prefer reading through such experiences to going through a sterile fact-sheet.

Keep motoring, but don't buy that Gurkha - yet.

Cheers

Steer

[ringoism]

Originally Posted by Steeroid

Dont change your style. Automobiles are a deeply personal obsession and each person's take on a vehicle brings out interesting facets...

Thanks for the encouragement, Steer. Won't likely change my style (much)...even if I wanted to.

However, in truth I'm trying to avoid obsession (which gets me tied up in complex, uncomfortable knots - been there) and to keep it to something more like enthusiasm (or even keen interest). "Everything in moderation" .

-Eric

[neil.jericho]

Originally Posted by ringoism

Many thanks for piping up - you got the idea.

To sum up with brevity, in consideration of smartphone users:

-Eric

To be honest, those have been an excellent series of posts on UM motorcycles by you. Ive been guilty of dismissing them as yet another cheap set of imports without test riding them and thought to myself that they would never sell in this day and age. Slowly but steadily though, Ive started seeing more of them on Bangalore's roads. Someone in my office has bought one as well and while the dismal paint quality does stand out on close inspection, the bike does have quite a decent presence on the move. Ive even heard non traditionalist Royal Enfield owners comment that the UM motorcycles do look good!

[lateshnair]

Originally Posted by neil.jericho

To be honest, those have been an excellent series of posts on UM motorcycles by you. Ive been guilty of dismissing them as yet another cheap set of imports without test riding them and thought to myself that they would never sell in this day and age. Slowly but steadily though, Ive started seeing more of them on Bangalore's roads. Someone in my office has bought one as well and while the dismal paint quality does stand out on close inspection, the bike does have quite a decent presence on the move. Ive even heard non traditionalist Royal Enfield owners comment that the UM motorcycles do look good!

Undoubtedly, its a head turner on the road. Stopping at the signal waiting for the green light sometime gets difficult when fellow riders around you ask about bike. Due to the same reason I cannot park the bike on any public parking, Once I did that mistake and while returning I saw bunch of guys sitting on my bike and taking turns to click snaps and they put scratch on my tank. :(

Sorry, I did not go through the entire long posts: My 2 cents about the bike based on my experience. ( Renegade Commando)

On Highways :

- On the highway this bike is very comfortable, no vibration at all even at 140km/hr. I usually average around 110- 120km/hr, its very smooth.
- Very comfortable sitting position, am a solo rider.
- Front suspensions are quite soft compared to rear, which feels quite stiff especially on pot holes.
- Rear drum brake are awful there is no bite, on lower speed(city condition) its okay but not on highways. Though, front disc brake compensates it, when applied in combination.
- Mileage I really never checked but I believe I get about 20-25 / ltr. I only take out my bike on weekends for a short or long trips. So cannot comment on in-city condition mileage.
- A bit of off roading is possible with this bike but due to stiff rear suspension, I did get back ache couple of times. :(

City Conditions:
- If bike runs continuously on 1st & 2nd gear in the traffic, the engine does get quite heated up, though it is liquid cooled engine but you will still feel quite a lot of heat on the right ankle. ( high boots or thick socks or jeans is recommended in city conditions)
- I own a Commando, its turning radius to quite big which makes it difficult to take U turns on a narrow road.


About Service:
- There are 2 service stations is Bangalore, one on the Lalbagh road ( Square Auto ) and the other one at Bellandur Junction ( UM Bangalore, stallion motors)
- Currently, they have limited experienced technician, hence bike service often get delayed.

There are few quality issues with the bike like the switches and plastic parts could have been better. But UM have addressed all the issues and they are replacing the parts by recalling the bikes. Recently, they replaced clutch assembly( Due to stiff gears), coolant container replaced with high capacity.
Next in line are switches.

So, overall I have had a good riding experience with this bike so far .. . At the pace they are opening showrooms across India looks like they are gonna stay here for long.

Guys, am sorry if this post have gone lengthy, but I tried to as brief as possible. I usually don't write reviews online so pardon me if you don't find this post upto the standards.

Cheers! and do write to be if you wanna know more about the bike.
Latesh

[skoda0505]

Just wanted to check if there are any more BHPians who have gone ahead with their purchase of the UM machines. I stay in NCR and have been interested in buying the Commando since AutoExpo2016 but have not been hearing anything about them much. Have they opened something in NCR ?

[BANDHAV]

^^There is a shworoom in CP on outer circle, they also have a Commando for test ride purpose.

[ringoism]

Originally Posted by lateshnair

Undoubtedly, its a head turner on the road.

I saw a whole bunch of these, DL-registered, up here in Manali a month or so ago - quite a sight. Came past our place in the village one night, and caught them in Old Manali later as well. I don't know that they ever proceeded to Ladakh (which would've been extremely interesting), but re: the bikes' visual appeal, I'll just say that by the time I came across them, at least a few of their riders seem to have successfully picked up equally (or more) visually-appealing (and incidentally blonde) female pillions (ahem!).

Being very happily married (and 48), a chick-magnet is about the last thing I need in a bike, but it really did give me reason to pause. Purist RE devotees may fairly mock these plasticky, high-revving bikes, but hey, to the uninformed if nobody else, the basic form satisfies, and they really do draw some attention. I still think the orange ones look great, still like the way they run/ride, and a couple years ahead, assuming spares are still available, might be looking to pick one up at a bargain price - and to take my ever-beautiful (and definitely non-blonde) bride for some truly satisfying rides on it.

-Eric

[ringoism]

A couple of the Manali bike rental agencies up here have UM Commando's now. One quoted Rs1,800/day - against Rs1,000 for a 500 Bullet! I do see them on-road quite a bit lately.

Anyway, for anyone wanting to test-ride under more rigorous conditions...

-Eric

[lateshnair]

Originally Posted by ringoism

Purist RE devotees may fairly mock these plasticky, high-revving bikes

-Eric

Its not that plasticky, atleast not the Commando variant, just the battery cover is plastic, rest all are hard metal. Which adds up lot of weight to the motorcycle.
Weight does have plus point though, good stability on highway while cursing at 110-120km/hr, no vibration.