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Old 28th August 2019, 10:39   #1
R.G
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Default Jawa cancellation saga - Problem with refunds

This thread is based on the post (Mahindra is bringing Jawa back. EDIT: Launched @ Rs 1.55 lakh) and the discussions on jawa booking amount refund.

The discussions on the Jawa cancellation refunds showed that it requires a wider attention and hence this thread.

Following are the relevant dates for my cancellation .

Booking Date : 01/12/2018
Cancellation date : 06-07-2019
Request raised : "Jawa Refund through PayU Instant Refund Utility" on 17th July 2019

The refund is yet to reach my account .

Fully refundable booking amount was the deal JawaMotorcycles posted on their twitter. Though I was yet to see or ride the motorcycle , the full refund I was promised sounded the right thing. I went ahead with the booking.



Eventually I cancelled my booking for my own reasons and the delay in getting the refund made me post my experience in tbhp , jawa booking thread.

@neil.jericho took the pain to go through the terms-of-use published here and explained his take on the legal terms in simple language . The terms now looks to be well crafted expecting a huge delay in delivery and safeguards the company interests in a very biased way.

(Mahindra is bringing Jawa back. EDIT: Launched @ Rs 1.55 lakh)
neil's post


Quote:
9. The price of the Motorcycle shall be the price applicable on the date of delivery of the motorcycle to the User by the dealership. It is specifically understood that the Booking is not an option or an implied fixed price contract. No interest is payable by CLPL or Dealership on the Booking amount.

27. Cancellation Policy for Booking on website: User can cancel his Booking before invoicing at dealership. The Booking can be cancelled only on the website. The Booking amount as applicable will be refunded net of transaction charges to the same account from where Booking was generated.

31. In case of any dispute, inconvenience or loss occurs due to User negligence, non-compliance or breach of applicable law, the User agrees to indemnify CLPL, its directors, employees, business partners and Dealership.
@bigron reasons that the delay in refund could be a way the company can generate the invoice and deny the refund to customers .

bigron's post (Mahindra is bringing Jawa back. EDIT: Launched @ Rs 1.55 lakh)


This could be correct as the refund is not processed for @ninjatalli after 3 months of cancellation. @ninjatalli's inquest (Mahindra is bringing Jawa back. EDIT: Launched @ Rs 1.55 lakh) into matter and his findings , if true , leads to a very serious question on the credibility of CLPL/Mahindra.

excerpt from his post

Quote:
Originally Posted by ninjatalli View Post
It's been 3+ months but the money hasn't reached my account. The original payment was done via PayU gateway and I got a confirmation from them that refund transaction had happened (back in May). After a long back&forth sessions with PayU via twitter and emails, and later reaching out to senior folks, I have now an active conversation with their settlement team. The moment I mentioned the merchant being Classic Legends / Jawa, they immediately shifted into a different mode, stating they are facing several customer refund issues with the same merchant; apparently CL/Jawa initiates the refund transactions but doesn't release the funds.
This post is a compilation of all these information to a single thread for better reference and discussions on the matter.
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Old 28th August 2019, 13:13   #2
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Default re: Jawa cancellation saga - Problem with refunds

Just to add on my previous post (referenced above), I again had a call today with the PayU team and reconfirmed on one point - they are very sure that the merchant has released the payment in my case and they are expecting this to be a reconciliation problem between them and my bank (account).

Not that I am in complete agreement with their understanding 9f the problem, but I will await their resolution accordingly.
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Old 29th August 2019, 11:15   #3
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Default Re: Jawa cancellation saga - Problem with refunds

R.G, thanks for creating a separate thread on this but unfortunately it still looks as though this issue isnt getting the attention it merits from our forum members.

TBHPian ninjatalli's posts are very intesting for two different reasons

Quote:
It's been 3+ months but the money hasn't reached my account. The original payment was done via PayU gateway and I got a confirmation from them that refund transaction had happened (back in May). After a long back&forth sessions with PayU via twitter and emails, and later reaching out to senior folks, I have now an active conversation with their settlement team. The moment I mentioned the merchant being Classic Legends / Jawa, they immediately shifted into a different mode, stating they are facing several customer refund issues with the same merchant; apparently CL/Jawa initiates the refund transactions but doesn't release the funds.
Mahindra initiating refund transactions without providing the actual funds in the account in clearly a fraudulent practice. Meanwhile they most definitely are sitting and earning interest off the cancelled booking money for hundreds of such cancellations. So much for it being an ethical company.

Quote:
Just to add on my previous post (referenced above), I again had a call today with the PayU team and reconfirmed on one point - they are very sure that the merchant has released the payment in my case and they are expecting this to be a reconciliation problem between them and my bank (account).
Wow, I have never heard of such an issue with a payment gateway. It makes me suspect that the PayU team might be sitting on your money now! My strong recommendation is put everything on email so there is written proof. I would do the following
- Get email confirmation (dont go by verbal, tomorrow it will be denied by the same people who said it) from Mahindra on the actual date on which the refund was processed by them (this appears to be sometime in May in your case)
- Get email confirmation from Mahindra on the actual date on which the funds were released by them
- Get email confirmation from PayU on the causes behind the delays in processing
- (This is in the coming days) Get email confirmation from PayU on when they processed the refund amount so you can cross verify it against your bank statement

All this is just a matter of 10 minutes and sending a few emails. The issues with the payment gateway, in this case PayU, should not be a concern for you as a customer. It is the responsibility of Mahindra to hire and retain a competent service provider for their backend payment gateway functionality. Your primary point of contact for processing this refund should be Mahindra, given that you know where the fault lies - lack of funds to process the refund.

My wife does some work with a payment gateway, I will try to see if I can find out more on this topic next week.
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Old 31st August 2019, 22:12   #4
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Default Re: Jawa cancellation saga - Problem with refunds

I cancelled my online booking on 30th Aug and during the process I was asked to enter the bank account details in Payumoney portal. The refund was credited to my bank account on 31st Aug.

Not sure if the refund process is working now or I was just lucky!!!
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Old 3rd September 2019, 09:45   #5
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Default Re: Jawa cancellation saga - Problem with refunds

Quote:
Originally Posted by vijayvelprakash View Post
I cancelled my online booking on 30th Aug and during the process I was asked to enter the bank account details in Payumoney portal. The refund was credited to my bank account on 31st Aug.

Not sure if the refund process is working now or I was just lucky!!!
That is a good news and congrats on getting back your booking money. It took them more than a day to confirm my cancellation.

Could you please share the booking date as well ?
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Old 3rd September 2019, 22:10   #6
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Default Re: Jawa cancellation saga - Problem with refunds

Quote:
Originally Posted by R.G View Post
Could you please share the booking date as well ?
Booking date was 25th Nov'18. The cancellation date has crossed 180days and hence was asked to enter the bank account details during the cancellation.
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Old 4th September 2019, 07:10   #7
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Default Re: Jawa cancellation saga - Problem with refunds

Quote:
Originally Posted by neil.jericho View Post
Wow, I have never heard of such an issue with a payment gateway.
This is actually quite a common issue. The problem is one of the stipulated duration within which a transaction can be automatically reversed between a payment gateway and the banking partner. This is normally set at about 30 days as in the normal course of eCommerce transactions there is no product return window that goes beyond those many days. Also, this is to ensure your credit card statement / monthly transaction statement is also generated correctly. It would become a huge headache to keep transactions active and reversible indefinitely.

After xyz number of days it gets more complicated to reverse transactions as either the payment gateway or banking partner has shut it in their books as a completed transaction. This necessitates manual intervention as opposed to an automatic reversal.

I suspect this is the issue PayU is facing (only a guess on my part).
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Old 8th September 2019, 17:23   #8
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Default Re: Jawa cancellation saga - Problem with refunds

There is an interview of Rajiv Bajaj in which he laughs at a company that tries to make everything from trucks to motorcycles. I am quite certain he was referring to Mahindra. The whole Mahindra idea of two wheelers suck, BIG time. They went motorcycle racing in Europe without a single model back home that can even remotely be called a success.. They have no clue as to what they are doing and that too in a premium segment. It is more like another Dhandha for them..
I went to see the new Jawa. It was a lousy customer service experience on all fronts and i really dont know what the hoopla is all about. The fit and finish, welds, plastics used, pretty much everything on the bike was lousy with a capital L. Feel sorry for all those who put down money for this crap..
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Old 8th September 2019, 17:55   #9
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Default Re: Jawa cancellation saga - Problem with refunds

I was so crazy about the Jawa 42 when they did the introduction session in 2018. I booked one in their website,sold my RE 350 thinking that Jawa would become a great success and there will be no resale value for RE - Mad me.

Later when the display bikes hit the showroom, it was a total let down - Too many quality issues and the price was not justifiable at all. Thankfully, I cancelled the booking immediately (got the refund) and picked up another bike of my family's choice.
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Old 8th September 2019, 18:43   #10
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Default Re: Jawa cancellation saga - Problem with refunds

Quote:
Originally Posted by adises View Post
This is actually quite a common issue. The problem is one of the stipulated duration within which a transaction can be automatically reversed between a payment gateway and the banking partner. This is normally set at about 30 days as in the normal course of eCommerce transactions there is no product return window that goes beyond those many days.

....

I suspect this is the issue PayU is facing (only a guess on my part).
Thanks! I have a feeling this is the cause, as in my case the refund happened after >6 months. Also, somehow our financial institutions don't really seem to talk to each other directly that efficiently.

PayU team is refusing to loop me into the (e)mail conversation they have initiated with ICICI, and can only update me that the bank is not responding to their mails since XYZ days. I have initiated a mail to ICICI and I intend to loop the PayU team on that once someone from ICICI support team responds. Will keep this thread updated.

Note: I sincerely don't think Jawa / CL is at fault here in my case.


Quote:
Originally Posted by neil.jericho View Post
My wife does some work with a payment gateway, I will try to see if I can find out more on this topic next week.
Can you check on this angle that @adises shared?

Last edited by ninjatalli : 8th September 2019 at 18:46.
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Old 9th September 2019, 08:59   #11
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Default Re: Jawa cancellation saga - Problem with refunds

I really donít understand the issue with communication between financial institutions at fault here . Isnít this refund a transaction just like any other where the protocol has to be followed?

I find it odd that vijayvelprakashís booking date is between mine and ninjatalliís , which makes me believe every record is in order . How did PayU sort it out for this particular transaction? .The only difference is the day of cancellation. Also if there is anything called priority, ideally ninjatalli should get his money first and then the people who cancelled in between and then me.

CLPL customer care is a joke if you have contacted them for the refund details. They absolutely have no idea on what is going on and donít have a reference or tracking number for the escalation done .

For me it looks like an expensive lesson learnt !
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Old 10th September 2019, 11:17   #12
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Default Re: Jawa cancellation saga - Problem with refunds

After waiting patiently for more than 9 months (I'd booked on 16th Nov 2018), I ended up cancelling my booking for the classic yesterday. Much to my surprise, the booking amount was credited to my account by midnight !
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Old 10th September 2019, 11:29   #13
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Default Re: Jawa cancellation saga - Problem with refunds

I got the refund amount in 3 days post online cancellation. One day out of these three was a bank holiday so technically two days only.

Also, when I told the dealer person that I am canceling the booking, he was quite cool about it and offered TD anytime if I wish to, even after canceling.
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Old 15th September 2019, 07:12   #14
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Default Re: Jawa cancellation saga - Problem with refunds

To update , I got a 5k credited to my account yesterday (14th September) with a transaction remark as PayUBankVerificationFundTransfer. This could be the refund as I am not expecting any other transaction of this nature to the account.

I was waiting to see any confirmation message or an email from CLPL mentioning the refund is complete. I am yet to receive any such communication.

So unless nothing unexpected crops up , after 71 days ( 2 months and 9 days ) the cancellation was done online I got my refund. It could be a coincidence that refunds started happening after this forum post was made . I honestly hope that this forum post has gained the right attention and made its way to the people who has powers to resolve the issue. Thank you tbhp
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Old 15th September 2019, 07:44   #15
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Default Re: Jawa cancellation saga - Problem with refunds

^^ So I'm the only one left in the lurch, atleast wrt the cases reported on this thread. ICICI Bank is just parroting the same thing again and again (give us a txn reference number) without understanding the issue; while PayU team has taken my bank details to push for the back-end refund with ICICI.

Let's see how long this takes to resolve.
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